14.1 ----101

[TSW]

>>Clearly enough people are using the term "race" to refer to the length of a game of 14.1 that it's not "disrespectful" or "ignorant" to do so. Terminology changes. If it didn't, we would all be using queues instead of cues.<<

i agree that you've been unjustly maligned in this discussion, and that we need to welcome rotation players, ignorant or otherwise...

...but there is no etymological connection between "queue" and "cue".

My understanding is that there is a direct connection from the French "queue," meaning "tail," which was used to refer to the tail end of the early billiards mace. The English "queue," meaning "a waiting line" is another branch on the same tree.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cue_stick#History

 

[sfleinen]

Sean,

I appreciate the tradition but I am going to continue using "race" because (1) it is an accepted pocket billiards term, (2) it is not incorrect definitionally, and (3) I find it easier in context. "What's the race?" conveys the same meaning and is more efficient than "How many points must a player reach to win this game?"

If anyone looks down on me for that, then that tells me more about their character than my own.

- Geoff

Geoff:

I don't know where you get the innuendo to imply that I "look down" on you for using the term "race." If you'll please read my ENTIRE response to you, and not pull excerpts/snippets from my post to use them as a platform to "reply all" to those that HAVE expressed looking down on you, I'd appreciate you doing that.

Just FYI, the WPA also views 14.1 as a POINTS-based game, as shown here:

http://wpa-pool.com/web/the_rules_of_play#4.4

To wit:

4.4 Continuing Play and Winning the Game
The shooter remains at the table as long as he continues to legally pocket called balls or wins the game by scoring the required number of points. When fourteen balls from a rack have been legally pocketed, play is suspended until the balls are re-racked.​

Notice the "continuous" nature of 14.1 -- that's where this "points-based" thing is coming from. You mention that you love this game and are fervently guarding your right to play it. That's cool. Part of the "love" of playing any game (or doing any activity, for that matter) is learning the history and tradition of that very game. If you agree with me, you'll recall that 14.1 is also known as straight pool, is also known as 14.1 Continuous. That latter term is not often used (probably due to "peer recognition" reasons), but it is still correct. It is indeed a Continuous game -- a single game, with an end goal of a certain number of points.

Sure, you can choose to continue to use the term "race." And again, if you read my response to you in its entirety (staying away from the urge to pull snippets so that you can use them as a platform to defend your stance), you'll notice that I mention all the effort to "positively ensue people are using the correct terminology" is actually better used for other more tangible / more rewarding purposes, e.g. ensuring tournaments are manned with enough referees and scorekeepers, etc.

Capisce?
-Sean

 

[sfleinen]

In the book McGoorty he spoke of Taberski and his feuds with Greenleaf, the best one was where he knocked Greenleaf out for pulling a few stunts on him.

Then McGoorty mentions one incident where Taberski spent 40 mins studying a shot over and over and over and then shot a safety ! He said they almost had to clear the place out because the fans were going nuts, lol.
I dont know how accurate the storys were, but the book is extremely entertaining.

That bolded part is interesting, for in your second paragraph, I can picture Greenleaf knocking Taberski out for doing that, not vice-versa.

-Sean <-- need to find a copy of that McGoorty book

 

[Toncam]

That bolded part is interesting, for in your second paragraph, I can picture Greenleaf knocking Taberski out for doing that, not vice-versa.

-Sean <-- need to find a copy of that McGoorty book

Its like i wrote it, i just checked the book myself as you had me thinking, lol.

 

[TSW]

Sean,

I was not directing that "look down" comment at you, and I apologize for any confusion. I've since edited that post so that it is not a direct reply to your post. I was addressing that comment to Fran and to any who share her exact sentiments.

My beef in this entire thread has been twofold:

1) Fran's attitude.

2) The substantive disagreement about whether the term "race" is appropriate.

Point 1 is what got me pissed. That attitude is inappropriate and offensive, and I refuse to accept it.

On point 2, I have stated where I come out. Others may differ. Doesn't bother me much either way.

 

[RonnieOSullivan]

My understanding is that there is a direct connection from the French "queue," meaning "tail," which was used to refer to the tail end of the early billiards mace. The English "queue," meaning "a waiting line" is another branch on the same tree.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cue_stick#History

The two words are definitely related very closely; the French word "queue" does mean tail but it also means line, just like how it's used in English.

For the record, posting different definitions of "race" doesn't prove any point other than that definitions are arbitrary and determined by use; there is no such thing as objectivity. It is Fran's right to judge those who use the term "race", but this is a semantic discussion and nothing more.

 

[dmgwalsh]

Sean,

I was addressing that comment to Fran and to any who share her exact sentiments.

My beef in this entire thread has been twofold:

1) Fran's attitude.

2) The substantive disagreement about whether the term "race" is appropriate.

Point 1 is what got me pissed. That attitude is inappropriate and offensive, and I refuse to accept it.

On point 2, I have stated where I come out. Others may differ. Doesn't bother me much either way.

I am in agreement with you. Whether the terminology was proper or not seemed to take a back seat to the denigrating tone of the post. I was going to stay away from this topic, but I thought I would lend you a little support. :thumbup:

 

[topcat1953]

I think I'm going to hook up with my buddy SpiderWeb in Wilmington and shoot a game of straight pool to 100 points. But, maybe if he's not there, I can grab some easy action by playing some $10 or $20 50 or 75 point games.

Although, if someone would ask me if I want to race to 75. Does that mean he wants to go out in the parking lot and race 75 yards? Or I-75 is a long way and my little S-10 is a gas hog and I would decline the race.

Bottom line is straight pool is a game played to a set amount of points.

Anyone that wants to justify calling it a race is plain old not wanting to admit they have made a mistake in terminology. It sounds terribly funny and awkward when the term race to 150 points is used. It doesn't really fit into the context of representing what the contestants are doing.

I mean, I am not going to buy 12 eggs, I'm going to buy a dozen. Both the same, although one is a bit more politically correct.

Bend it and twist it all you want, but it's called a game not a race.

Those that want to call it anything else, but a game, may not be essentially wrong in what takes place during a match, but they sure sound ignorant to the fans and players who are true to the Sport in deaming it that way. Like hearing a missed note on a clarinet. Cringe!!

Beside that, most of the guys I know who play straight pool aren't racing anywhere, unless they have a Z-28 or a Shelby Cobra.

 

[Dan White]

I think this whole thread has been perpetuated by hurt feelings and has little to do with the "race" issue. Any idiot can see that "race" is the wrong term, and when told so at, say, a straight pool event, they will most likely say something like, "Oh, you're right. I never thought of it that way... I don't play much straight pool... thanks."

 

[lfigueroa]

I just can't get worked up about a controversy between the words "points" and "race." In a way, the hoopala over using the term "race" it's kind of ironic, since players "run" balls" or have "a run" of balls.

Lou Figueroa
they can run
but cannot race

 

[sfleinen]

I just can't get worked up about a controversy between the words "points" and "race." In a way, the hoopala over using the term "race" it's kind of ironic, since players "run" balls" or have "a run" of balls.

Lou Figueroa
they can run
but cannot race

...unless the players are Luc Salvas and Tony Drago. Now that would be a very entertaining straight pool race!


-Sean

 

[lfigueroa]

...unless the players are Luc Salvas and Tony Drago. Now that would be a very entertaining straight pool race!


-Sean

Maybe they can play a "sprint" to 100 :-o

Lou Figueroa

 

[Dan White]

I just can't get worked up about a controversy between the words "points" and "race."

Hi Lou. I guess your comment kind of makes my point. Somebody blew off some steam and said something. Somebody else didn't like it and says they can say what they want to say and nobody can stop them from saying as such. Sufferin' Succatash!! Oy vey.

I still say "race" is wrong.

 

[lfigueroa]

Hi Lou. I guess your comment kind of makes my point. Somebody blew off some steam and said something. Somebody else didn't like it and says they can say what they want to say and nobody can stop them from saying as such. Sufferin' Succatash!! Oy vey.

I still say "race" is wrong.

Yo, Dan -- hit that 100 yet?

I can understand that "technically" points is proper pool-ese. But I also think language, in all endeavors, evolves or it stagnates. Everyone runs and races and marathons and 5ks nowadays. So a race should be acceptable in today's sports milieu.

I'm also looking at it from the perspective of someone who occasionally writes about pool or does video commentary. You need to keep it varied and interesting and contemporary, IMO.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Dan White]

Yo, Dan -- hit that 100 yet?

I can understand that "technically" points is proper pool-ese. But I also think language, in all endeavors, evolves or it stagnates. Everyone runs and races and marathons and 5ks nowadays. So a race should be acceptable in today's sports milieu.

I'm also looking at it from the perspective of someone who occasionally writes about pool or does video commentary. You need to keep it varied and interesting and contemporary, IMO.

Lou Figueroa

Hey Lou! I bet it's guys like you that want to put up an LED scoreboard at Fenway.

Came close-ish a couple of times but in reality I took a year off from running balls to work on my stroke (yes, a year, maybe more). I've got things near perfect now so as of August I'm starting to run balls. I do have some table issues that I need to fix before 100 is realistic (need to get new cloth and have it stretched properly, fix a slate joint). I'm running (not racing) 2 and 3 racks like water now but I get hit with a cement stack, or my stroke fails on a key shot. So, I've still got some work to do but I think I'm in a more realistic position to win our bet. (Of course my goal is to run 100 every day :smile: )

 

[lfigueroa]

Hey Lou! I bet it's guys like you that want to put up an LED scoreboard at Fenway.

Came close-ish a couple of times but in reality I took a year off from running balls to work on my stroke (yes, a year, maybe more). I've got things near perfect now so as of August I'm starting to run balls. I do have some table issues that I need to fix before 100 is realistic (need to get new cloth and have it stretched properly, fix a slate joint). I'm running (not racing) 2 and 3 racks like water now but I get hit with a cement stack, or my stroke fails on a key shot. So, I've still got some work to do but I think I'm in a more realistic position to win our bet. (Of course my goal is to run 100 every day :smile: )

LEDs at Fenway?! Blasphemy.

I came close to my end of the bet a couple of times this year, but the closest I got was a 71 the second day.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Dan White]

LEDs at Fenway?! Blasphemy.

I came close to my end of the bet a couple of times this year, but the closest I got was a 71 the second day.

Lou Figueroa

Damn, that's close! Maybe you just need to run 200+ balls combined for two days in a row. (1 inning each, of course).

 

[Pushout]

I think this whole thread has been perpetuated by hurt feelings and has little to do with the "race" issue. Any idiot can see that "race" is the wrong term, and when told so at, say, a straight pool event, they will most likely say something like, "Oh, you're right. I never thought of it that way... I don't play much straight pool... thanks."

I quite agree!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

 

[poolmouse]

I see nothing offensive about what she wrote that should get anybody's shorts in a knot. Just a strongly felt opinion IMSFO.

I agree, although I've been saying "race to 100" for 35 years and nobody ever told me I was being disrespectful to the game of straight pool. This thread reminds of Al Gore for some odd reason...

 

[Dan White]

I agree, although I've been saying "race to 100" for 35 years and nobody ever told me I was being disrespectful to the game of straight pool. This thread reminds of Al Gore for some odd reason...

Me three. I somehow thought there was more to this story but if Fran's original post is about it, then I don't see why anybody's so upset.