14.1 at dcc 2013 ????
- Thread starter nashville14:1
- Start date
i'm solidly with the 9-foot camp. i've watched some 14.1 and some rotation on 10 foot tables, and it doesn't interest me.
as someone else mentioned, i'd like to see big runs and comparability with other events.
as someone else mentioned, i'd like to see big runs and comparability with other events.
We thought about moving everything up a day and starting the 4 days of qualifiers on Saturday, but then the last day of that is Tuesday and some of the late arriving nine ball players like Archer, and Mika do not take a crack at it.
As it is planned right now, we would be done with all the qualifiers by Wednesday and would again try to get the matches done quickly, but we always seem to have trouble getting two players free from their other commitments and we do not feel right forfeiting them like they did in Vegas.
10 foot tall and bullet proof of fear
I understand some of the hesitation concerning the 10' vs 9', I think that it favors the player who has the better stroke and I would welcome the diversity of competing on the larger table. I grew up playing alot of snooker/payball and have practiced some 14.1 before on the ten footer. I would also say that this may be the correct size of table to play pool on anyhow as there might be less congestion due to a larger space, this would in a sense make the game easier than the 9footer in relation to straight pool. Also with today's faster cloth it seems to me like we do not need much of a stroke to move the cue ball around - this would change on the ten footer (bueno). There would need to be room for the players however and in the past it does seem a bit cramped to begin with at the DCC 14.1 room. I see the pro's and cons - but I would agree with Dennis in that the players who make the finals will probably make a good showing no matter if it's a 9' or ten'. It's logical to have a little fear if you have not ever played much on the 5x10 in terms of what to expect but again the players in the finals probably won't be complaining. I do agree that we need to decide on one game if we are going to try and promote this as a sport. My favorite game is One Pocket but I feel that Straight Pool would be easier for John cue public to watch. Archer does not play One Pocket - he says it's for idiots.
I understand some of the hesitation concerning the 10' vs 9', I think that it favors the player who has the better stroke and I would welcome the diversity of competing on the larger table. I grew up playing alot of snooker/payball and have practiced some 14.1 before on the ten footer. I would also say that this may be the correct size of table to play pool on anyhow as there might be less congestion due to a larger space, this would in a sense make the game easier than the 9footer in relation to straight pool. Also with today's faster cloth it seems to me like we do not need much of a stroke to move the cue ball around - this would change on the ten footer (bueno). There would need to be room for the players however and in the past it does seem a bit cramped to begin with at the DCC 14.1 room. I see the pro's and cons - but I would agree with Dennis in that the players who make the finals will probably make a good showing no matter if it's a 9' or ten'. It's logical to have a little fear if you have not ever played much on the 5x10 in terms of what to expect but again the players in the finals probably won't be complaining. I do agree that we need to decide on one game if we are going to try and promote this as a sport. My favorite game is One Pocket but I feel that Straight Pool would be easier for John cue public to watch. Archer does not play One Pocket - he says it's for idiots.
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No apology
I am not a huge fan of black and white thinkers, the last time I played Archer he would not shake my hand when I got lucky and won against him at the IPT in Reno. I told a fan who was watching his poor sportsmanship how I was starting to really enjoy the game of 8 ball. Archer replied well maybe you would like to gamble, it's too bad some of the players out there are full of such hate especially the player of the decade. When i made a counter offer to play him some one pocket down at the pool room for $500.00 a game the player of the decade said one pocket was for idiots. It's obvious that he is one of the guys that the powers at be are trying to market as "a good guy". He has caused some problems for me with his fear issues and he did rack most everyone out playing 9 ball back in the PBT days. He is a great player and I hope he and Sammy Diepp get over some of their fear reguarding what it is they do not understand and harassment that comes in the way of politics and trying to control who is acceptable in reference to invite events and what not.
In his interview with AZ he seems genuine, he makes us all look bad when he does not shake othe peoples hands who never tried to shark him during the match and just happened to get a win. So if you get to read this Archer - next time Pat Fleming has a 14.1 invite event maybe you can find it in yourself to not be so petrified of possibly having to compete against a sinner such as I. I have first hand info from Pat why I never was invited to the accu stats invitational at Comet billiards, Pat said in so many words that it was a mistake that I was not invited and that Archer had bigger sponsors than me and that Johnny Archer had requested that I was not apart of the good ol boy invite. If anyone disputes my comments you may ask Pat if you like. Pat has promised me that if he hosts another 14.1 event that I will be apart of it. By the way I had received the bronze medal the year before at charlies tournament and everyone was asking me why I was not invited to this Accu stats deal over in Parsippany since I was the last American standing last year - Pat gave me the answer about Archer's dislike for me in a very elequent way. Now when I see Archer at the DCC he looks at me with a #%@t eating grin (as he knows he has more political pull than me). If they ever have a 14.1 tour that is no convaluded by political piggies and fear then Archer will not be able to duck me and I feel he is the underdog in a heads up play against me in 14.1. Political pull has no power when you lock horns race to 1000 points, but Archer will have an excuse as to why he will choose not to play - don't ya think?
WHEN THE POWER OF LOVE OVERCOMES THE LOVE FOR POWER, THEN THE WORLD WILL TRULY KNOW PEACE.
I am not a huge fan of black and white thinkers, the last time I played Archer he would not shake my hand when I got lucky and won against him at the IPT in Reno. I told a fan who was watching his poor sportsmanship how I was starting to really enjoy the game of 8 ball. Archer replied well maybe you would like to gamble, it's too bad some of the players out there are full of such hate especially the player of the decade. When i made a counter offer to play him some one pocket down at the pool room for $500.00 a game the player of the decade said one pocket was for idiots. It's obvious that he is one of the guys that the powers at be are trying to market as "a good guy". He has caused some problems for me with his fear issues and he did rack most everyone out playing 9 ball back in the PBT days. He is a great player and I hope he and Sammy Diepp get over some of their fear reguarding what it is they do not understand and harassment that comes in the way of politics and trying to control who is acceptable in reference to invite events and what not.
In his interview with AZ he seems genuine, he makes us all look bad when he does not shake othe peoples hands who never tried to shark him during the match and just happened to get a win. So if you get to read this Archer - next time Pat Fleming has a 14.1 invite event maybe you can find it in yourself to not be so petrified of possibly having to compete against a sinner such as I. I have first hand info from Pat why I never was invited to the accu stats invitational at Comet billiards, Pat said in so many words that it was a mistake that I was not invited and that Archer had bigger sponsors than me and that Johnny Archer had requested that I was not apart of the good ol boy invite. If anyone disputes my comments you may ask Pat if you like. Pat has promised me that if he hosts another 14.1 event that I will be apart of it. By the way I had received the bronze medal the year before at charlies tournament and everyone was asking me why I was not invited to this Accu stats deal over in Parsippany since I was the last American standing last year - Pat gave me the answer about Archer's dislike for me in a very elequent way. Now when I see Archer at the DCC he looks at me with a #%@t eating grin (as he knows he has more political pull than me). If they ever have a 14.1 tour that is no convaluded by political piggies and fear then Archer will not be able to duck me and I feel he is the underdog in a heads up play against me in 14.1. Political pull has no power when you lock horns race to 1000 points, but Archer will have an excuse as to why he will choose not to play - don't ya think?
WHEN THE POWER OF LOVE OVERCOMES THE LOVE FOR POWER, THEN THE WORLD WILL TRULY KNOW PEACE.
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I am not sure what you mean by this. What game and what size table doesn't favor the player with the better stroke?
Straight pool's lack of diversity is what draws most of us to it. It has been played on the same equipment with the same rules for over fifty years. I can respect that you, as a greatly skilled player, would welcome the challenge, but that's not enough reason to change equipment.
I would also suggest that it's not difficult at all to move the cue ball around on a ten footer with Simonis cloth when the game is 14.1. This is a game of touch, finesse, and chiefly short position play. Having to let the stroke out in 14.1 more than occasionally is a sign of poor play, not of accurate, skillful play. Nonetheless, ten footers are harder to pocket on and that's why only a few have ever run over 300 on a ten footer, although I don't think if it has been done since my birth in 1958.
I agree with you that the very best players should be able to play well on either table , but the origin of these relatively new straight pool challenges is the fascination of watching, taping and studying high runs at a time when there are some players capable of beating Mosconi's celebrated record, a near impossible feat on a ten footer.
Anyway, as one of the sponsors of the event, I hope you will participate and wish you the best of success.
Table length diversity
I grew up playing on heavy wool cloth, when I first came to the big city I got beat and soon learned that you needed little stroke to draw the cue ball on simonis 860 cloth. The cloth I liked the best was at the IPT event in Reno, I agree that straight pool is indeed a game of finesse but if you stretch the cloth enough it's possible to draw the cue ball with a center ball stroke with new simonis and under dry conditions. On the ten footer you need to hit the ball just a tad bit better due to the extra length, I would not call this a power draw however it does take a little more umphh (if you will) and you get to hit it better. I would add that every now and again I see the balls re-group after executing a fine break shot, this would not happen as much on the ten' ie less congestion = quicker end game patterns. However with the addition of size I would think you could make the pro specs. a little softer for the ten footer which would help the chance for high runs, I am not really interested in what the record is on a shaved slated (downward hill pocket) 4x8 as much as what the high run was on a ten footer - which again was the preferred size during the height of 14.1.
I am not sure if I will attend this years DCC but I am not scared of the ten footer, besides knowone is going to break Willie's record on the 9' due to the deep shelf pockets. I am not sure but I think all 14.1 was played on the ten' for over 100yrs prior to the last fifty. The point I would make here is that if your fundamentals are solid you should not be afraid of trying out the ten footer as when 14.1 was the game - this was the prefered size for the top player. Thanks for the interest in me competing but I may have other fish to fry, I have been practicing but again we'll just have to see. Congrats for being insturemental in helping keep the game alive know matter what size the table is, I believe your a positive addition to this forum yngst old schooler.
I grew up playing on heavy wool cloth, when I first came to the big city I got beat and soon learned that you needed little stroke to draw the cue ball on simonis 860 cloth. The cloth I liked the best was at the IPT event in Reno, I agree that straight pool is indeed a game of finesse but if you stretch the cloth enough it's possible to draw the cue ball with a center ball stroke with new simonis and under dry conditions. On the ten footer you need to hit the ball just a tad bit better due to the extra length, I would not call this a power draw however it does take a little more umphh (if you will) and you get to hit it better. I would add that every now and again I see the balls re-group after executing a fine break shot, this would not happen as much on the ten' ie less congestion = quicker end game patterns. However with the addition of size I would think you could make the pro specs. a little softer for the ten footer which would help the chance for high runs, I am not really interested in what the record is on a shaved slated (downward hill pocket) 4x8 as much as what the high run was on a ten footer - which again was the preferred size during the height of 14.1.
I am not sure if I will attend this years DCC but I am not scared of the ten footer, besides knowone is going to break Willie's record on the 9' due to the deep shelf pockets. I am not sure but I think all 14.1 was played on the ten' for over 100yrs prior to the last fifty. The point I would make here is that if your fundamentals are solid you should not be afraid of trying out the ten footer as when 14.1 was the game - this was the prefered size for the top player. Thanks for the interest in me competing but I may have other fish to fry, I have been practicing but again we'll just have to see. Congrats for being insturemental in helping keep the game alive know matter what size the table is, I believe your a positive addition to this forum yngst old schooler.
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Personally, I hope the 10 footer makes a comeback, but I doubt it will ever happen. I live in Detroit, a city with plenty of places to play pool. I think there might be one room deep in the city that still has a 10 ft table, but I am not sure. So, there is nowhere to practice on one. There are certainly no Diamond cut pockets. I watched Earl and Landon play at Tunica, and SVB and Earl play prior. Great stuff, but not many would post their cash to play in a tourney without prior experience unless they just wanted to donate.
It's a dream of mine to have a house with large rooms so I could have a table. I don't even have room for a Bar Box. A 10 footer would be my ultimate choice if I had the room. A local room had heated Billiard tables and I understand they took them out...sad !
P.S. Just called Bill's Recreation on 3rd St. in Detroit. They DO have a 10 ft table...WITH SIMONIS CLOTH ! It's in a rough area...Cass Corridor, but I'm sure they would treat you very well there. EVERYBODY needs the business !
It's a dream of mine to have a house with large rooms so I could have a table. I don't even have room for a Bar Box. A 10 footer would be my ultimate choice if I had the room. A local room had heated Billiard tables and I understand they took them out...sad !
P.S. Just called Bill's Recreation on 3rd St. in Detroit. They DO have a 10 ft table...WITH SIMONIS CLOTH ! It's in a rough area...Cass Corridor, but I'm sure they would treat you very well there. EVERYBODY needs the business !
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SJM,
I guess I will have to disagree with this notion (I need to disagree with you at least once every 5 or 10 years
). If we are going to have the pros follow the amateurs, the DCC will need to be held this year on Valley bar boxes, old cloth, pockmarked balls, no table lights, huge corner pockets, and painfully loud jukebox music. Level tables will not be permitted.Your other points are all valid, and I am in agreement that tradition is built with consistent rules and equipment - something the sport of pool sorely lacks.
While I personally would love to see the event contested on 10 footers (just for a real torture test for the pros); the 9 foot Diamonds are plenty adequate for a fine event.
Pool as a sport (rather than a game) does need to offer plenty of challenge for the elite players, and I think the 10 footers are a better test for them. I care more about the beauty and challenge of the game than I do about how popular it is to someone else (purely selfish in this regard....its all about me
).awesome idea!!!!!!!!
SJM,
I guess I will have to disagree with this notion (I need to disagree with you at least once every 5 or 10 years
Your other points are all valid, and I am in agreement that tradition is built with consistent rules and equipment - something the sport of pool sorely lacks.
While I personally would love to see the event contested on 10 footers (just for a real torture test for the pros); the 9 foot Diamonds are plenty adequate for a fine event.
Pool as a sport (rather than a game) does need to offer plenty of challenge for the elite players, and I think the 10 footers are a better test for them. I care more about the beauty and challenge of the game than I do about how popular it is to someone else (purely selfish in this regard....its all about me
Nobody has suggsted that the ten footer wouldn't present a great challenge, as, for that matter, would an eleven foot table, but the origin of these challenges is affording the pros of today an opportunity to match or surpass the accomplishments of the last generation of pros.
Those, like me, who contribute to these events financially every year, don't want this element lost from these competitions by the introduction of equipment that makes these feats incomparable. Extremely few of the highest runs in straight pool history occurred on 5 x 10 equipment in the golden age of pool, and none of the top twenty. The 4 1/2 x 9 Diamond tables that have been used since the onset of the DCC 14.1 Challenge have tortured the pros enough, and you can count the players that have surpassed 150 balls run since the event began on your fingers.
There is a cash bonus ($20,000 I think) offered to anybody who tops Mosconi and this generates a lot of excitement, an excitment that would be lost on a ten footer or bigger.
All these points aside, I have made it clear that I'll support the event regardless of equipment and have already made a pledge of financial support.
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Actually, a strong case could be made for using eight footers, as Mosconi's record was set on an eight footer. Still, most of the tops runs of the past fifty years took place on a nine footer, including Thomas Engert's 491, and virtually all who play straight pool today play it on a nine footer, so I think the nine footer is a better choice.
Stu: I am not aware of any such bonus. I think that Griffin and Jewett might have had that as a bonus at the Las Vegas variation of this event, but no one has made that offer for Derby.
In the past, Greg Sullivan had offerred up an extra $2,000.00 for anyone who breaks 200 on a Diamond as long as it is video'd. Since Greg is putting up most of the money this year, that bonus is off the table.
Oh, you're right, Dennis, that $20,000 bonus is offered at the BCAPL 14.1 Challenge. My mistake.
I just saw your post about the 4x8.....Wasn't trying to be an echo"-)
I think the idea of 10 foot tables will forever remain a novelty proposition, as Lou said. We need to play on equipment that is available to all, and standardize the game. The top pros have plenty of advantage on a good Diamond table. Why change the competition to play on equipment that almost no one has the opportunity to play and practice on?
As far as Mosconi's 526 record, why not set up one 4X8 (e.g. old Brunswick Anniversary) at every 14.1 event and let qualified players have a go at it. Sooner or later someone will break the record on the same equipment Willie played on. Until then, doing it on a larger table remains a very long proposition.