14.1 High Runs at on a 7’ Table vs a 9’ Table

I think that would actually be an interesting measure. It would give a rough indication of cue ball travel.

I did a study of average shot difficulty a long time ago in which I would note the difficulty of each shot in matches to 150. It included a way to assign a number to each shot based on how accurate the cuing had to be to make the shot. The result was that the player who consistently faced the easiest shots was Irving Crane. (1970s) I imagine that Mosconi would have been quite a bit better on that measure -- he was very proud of how he had tightened up position play relative to the other players. And Greenleaf would have had a hard time getting only two cushion contacts in his run if he had a lot of long shots.
Didn't they call Crane "Mr. 14"? Mosconi said Crane would have won more had he taken more chances. I must have read that on AZ somewhere. Seems like a more conservative player would have easier shots and not necessarily because their cue ball control was so great. (Although of course his control was great, too).
 
Very interesting , i would like to start playing 14.1 or 9.1 on my 7’ diamond. Any videos out there? Very tiresome game for
a newbie but looks very rewarding when learned.
 
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Very interesting , i would like to start playing 14.1 or 9.1 on my 7’ diamond. Any videos out there? Very tiresome game for
a newbie but looks very rewarding when learned.
Frustration is setting in on my attempts to run 100 on a 7-foot table. Stringing 7+ racks in such tight quarters is proving far more difficult than I expected. For me, it seems it’s going to take a run of good luck and/or avoiding any bad luck rolls to reach my goal. I’ve had 4 runs in the mid 50s in the last month, but can’t seem to make it in to the 5th rack.

Virtually every rack entails numerous issues where you are faced with breaking up problem clusters after the initial break shot. The balls just don’t seem to spread out as well on a 7-foot table, even with an ideal angle break ball and explosive pace on the break shot. To break up these problem balls and still control where the cue ball ends up to assure leaving a high percentage shot seems to require a skill / knowledge set I just don’t have. I’m not giving up, but if I can’t achieve it in the next month or so, I’m going to take a break and go back to playing / practicing on 9-foot tables.
 
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Frustration is setting in on my attempts to run 100 on a 7-foot table. Stringing 7+ racks in such tight quarters is proving far more difficult than I expected. For me, it seems it’s going to take a run of good luck and/or avoiding any bad luck rolls to reach my goal. I’ve had 4 runs in the mid 50s in the last month, but can’t seem to make it in to the 5th rack.

Virtually every rack entails numerous issues where you are faced with breaking up problem clusters after the initial break shot. The balls just don’t seem to spread out as well on a 7-foot table, even with an ideal angle break ball and explosive pace on the break shot. To break up these problem balls and still control where the cue ball ends up to assure leaving a high percentage shot seems to require a skill / knowledge set I just don’t have. I’m not giving up, but if I can’t achieve it in the next month or so, I’m going to take a break and go back to playing / practicing on 9-foot tables.
I'm still convinced that the extra real estate on the 9ft is more of a convenience then detriment. I'm willing to bet you're new found use of the racking template will reap major benefits on the full sized table.
 
I'm still convinced that the extra real estate on the 9ft is more of a convenience then detriment. I'm willing to bet you're new found use of the racking template will reap major benefits on the full sized table.
I know the shotmaking is going to be tougher on the big table, but I’m hoping the more exacting positioning required on the small table will pay off on the 9-foot table.
 
I've never played 14.1 on a 7' table but lack of knowledge never stopped me from forming an opinion before so why start now?

It seems to me on a 7' table the problem would be congestion and therefore you would want play old style 14.1 which is to chip away at the rack. Open up a few balls and run them off - rinse and repeat. Seems like shattering rack open would leave you with several problems to deal with.
 
I've never played 14.1 on a 7' table but lack of knowledge never stopped me from forming an opinion before so why start now?

It seems to me on a 7' table the problem would be congestion and therefore you would want play old style 14.1 which is to chip away at the rack. Open up a few balls and run them off - rinse and repeat. Seems like shattering rack open would leave you with several problems to deal with.
You have to be awfully patient to play that old style 14.1. When I have a chance to blow open the rack, I generally do it, although it often doesn’t pay off and I have no control over where the CB ends up. It just seems like worrying about the angles to set up numerous softer pace breakout shots every rack is beyond my abilities.
 
You have to be awfully patient to play that old style 14.1. When I have a chance to blow open the rack, I generally do it, although it often doesn’t pay off and I have no control over where the CB ends up. It just seems like worrying about the angles to set up numerous softer pace breakout shots every rack is beyond my abilities.
It blows my mind guys ran 100s, sometimes multiples thereof, playing the game that way.
 
Agreed.... Honeslty a completely different and imo a much more difficult game using that methodology
Yes, but they have complete control of the cue ball on every single shot. They seemed to have no concern about creating the correct angles to continue breaking out a few balls at a time.

Ray Martin tried to teach me this when I had a lesson with him six or seven years ago. I just never had enough confidence in my game or enough patience to commit to really giving it a try for any length of time.

I don’t know what’s keeping me from giving it a try again, other than my stubbornness, particularly considering that my current approach of smashing in to the pack is not working.
 
Yes, but they have complete control of the cue ball on every single shot. <snip>

I don’t know what’s keeping me from giving it a try again, other than my stubbornness, particularly considering that my current approach of smashing in to the pack is not working.
Not in an effort to pat myself on the back, but I have fairly decent CB control. Brushing a few balls out of the rack at a time just begs for mis-steps and bad rolls. For me, it just seemed counterintuitive to play that ticky tacky game when I have zero concerns about my nonexistent opponent.

Now if I was playing on something smaller than a 9 footer then ya I'd play slightly differently, but by only somewhat limiting my break shot power. Rather than blasting the rack, I'd only hit half pace or whatever. Definitively wouldn't be attempting to only knock a few out at a time.

Even as it stands now on the 9ft. I'll swing at a secondary break shot early, regardless of how many open balls are already available. Now I'll do so in a manner that directs those balls away from potential cluster forming situations mind you. However it's still far more aggressive than traditional 14.1 play
 
Not in an effort to pat myself on the back, but I have fairly decent CB control. Brushing a few balls out of the rack at a time just begs for mis-steps and bad rolls. For me, it just seemed counterintuitive to play that ticky tacky game when I have zero concerns about my nonexistent opponent.

Now if I was playing on something smaller than a 9 footer then ya I'd play slightly differently, but by only somewhat limiting my break shot power. Rather than blasting the rack, I'd only hit half pace or whatever. Definitively wouldn't be attempting to only knock a few out at a time.

Even as it stands now on the 9ft. I'll swing at a secondary break shot early, regardless of how many open balls are already available. Now I'll do so in a manner that directs those balls away from potential cluster forming situations mind you. However it's still far more aggressive than traditional 14.1 play
When talking about this subject everybody seems to think that it was drastically different back then. They didn't just chip away every single rack.
Most didn't have a problem opening the balls up when conditions allowed.

They did tend to clear off more balls before re breaking but everything was situation based. Also equipment based. I guarantee you if they played on modern tables they'd be smashing the balls open.

The best example I can think of offhand to illustrate "old school" 14.1 is Dallas West vs Zuglan in the 1992 US Open. May only be available from Accu-stats, not sure.
As far as a modern day player in recent times it would be Darren Appelton circa 2014-2016 or so in some of the World Tournament or American 14.1 matches. A lot of that is available on Youtube. His style is similar to the old timers.
 
When talking about this subject everybody seems to think that it was drastically different back then. They didn't just chip away every single rack.
Most didn't have a problem opening the balls up when conditions allowed.

They did tend to clear off more balls before re breaking but everything was situation based. Also equipment based. I guarantee you if they played on modern tables they'd be smashing the balls open.

The best example I can think of offhand to illustrate "old school" 14.1 is Dallas West vs Zuglan in the 1992 US Open. May only be available from Accu-stats, not sure.
As far as a modern day player in recent times it would be Darren Appelton circa 2014-2016 or so in some of the World Tournament or American 14.1 matches. A lot of that is available on Youtube. His style is similar to the old timers.
Interesting thanks for this - I’m not from that era and don’t really have that kind of insight. I’ll have to check those out. I had in mind Cranes 150 & out against Balsis. I’ll watch that run and think to myself “I could never do that.” Whereas Sigels 150, or Rempes 100 ball run demo he did for Accu Stats seems within the realm of possibility.
 
When talking about this subject everybody seems to think that it was drastically different back then. They didn't just chip away every single rack.
Most didn't have a problem opening the balls up when conditions allowed.
I'm horribly uneducated in the game, and only know what I have read here. Which generally frowns upon the agressive game as "untraditional", so maybe in this case 2+2 doesn't actually make 4......

I just see balls and put balls into pockets...
 
I'm horribly uneducated in the game, and only know what I have read here. Which generally frowns upon the agressive game as "untraditional", so maybe in this case 2+2 doesn't actually make 4......
When does it ever?
I just see balls and put balls into pockets...
Wait a second, you can't do that. Need to throw a little complication in there to keep it interesting.
 
Interesting thanks for this - I’m not from that era and don’t really have that kind of insight. I’ll have to check those out. I had in mind Cranes 150 & out against Balsis. I’ll watch that run and think to myself “I could never do that.” Whereas Sigels 150, or Rempes 100 ball run demo he did for Accu Stats seems within the realm of possibility.
I'm really not sure but I think they were still using clay balls when that match happened. That's probably the biggest difference.

When I started playing in 1963 and we still had the slow cloth but the balls were improved. People hit the BS hard back then when possible. The thing is that when you had to hit the BS a little easier, possibly due to CB concerns, maybe only 4-5 balls came loose. The same speed and angle today would yield 8-10 balls simply because of the cloth. There's no question it's easier to run balls now.
Mosconi would have run 5-600 every week.

Will watch your newest run tonight. Watched some of the past ones and saw some issues that needed work to realize bigger numbers on a consistent basis.
 
I'm really not sure but I think they were still using clay balls when that match happened. That's probably the biggest difference.

When I started playing in 1963 and we still had the slow cloth but the balls were improved. People hit the BS hard back then when possible. The thing is that when you had to hit the BS a little easier, possibly due to CB concerns, maybe only 4-5 balls came loose. The same speed and angle today would yield 8-10 balls simply because of the cloth. There's no question it's easier to run balls now.
Mosconi would have run 5-600 every week.

Will watch your newest run tonight. Watched some of the past ones and saw some issues that needed work to realize bigger numbers on a consistent basis.
Thank you sir - any insight and observations are appreciated. Other than the number, I’m most proud of not caving in to the pressure, especially on the 100th ball.
 
Frustration is setting in on my attempts to run 100 on a 7-foot table. Stringing 7+ racks in such tight quarters is proving far more difficult than I expected. For me, it seems it’s going to take a run of good luck and/or avoiding any bad luck rolls to reach my goal. I’ve had 4 runs in the mid 50s in the last month, but can’t seem to make it in to the 5th rack.

Virtually every rack entails numerous issues where you are faced with breaking up problem clusters after the initial break shot. The balls just don’t seem to spread out as well on a 7-foot table, even with an ideal angle break ball and explosive pace on the break shot. To break up these problem balls and still control where the cue ball ends up to assure leaving a high percentage shot seems to require a skill / knowledge set I just don’t have. I’m not giving up, but if I can’t achieve it in the next month or so, I’m going to take a break and go back to playing / practicing on 9-foot tables.
per John Schmidt about 12 years ago:
" ... for the record i think 14.1 on the bartable is easier than 9ft.​
you can reach allbreakballs,combos and shots are a joke etc.​
yes its more confined space but with the cueball control ive learned from 14.1 thats the last thing im worried about.​
for the record the easiest table to play 14.1 is a 4x8 .ive played on them all and its the easiest no doubt. enough room to play but still easier on shotmaking,reaching,combos than 9ft."​
So maybe you should bring in an 8-footer, Chris! :)
 
When talking about this subject everybody seems to think that it was drastically different back then. They didn't just chip away every single rack.
Most didn't have a problem opening the balls up when conditions allowed.

They did tend to clear off more balls before re breaking but everything was situation based. Also equipment based. I guarantee you if they played on modern tables they'd be smashing the balls open.

The best example I can think of offhand to illustrate "old school" 14.1 is Dallas West vs Zuglan in the 1992 US Open. May only be available from Accu-stats, not sure.
As far as a modern day player in recent times it would be Darren Appelton circa 2014-2016 or so in some of the World Tournament or American 14.1 matches. A lot of that is available on Youtube. His style is similar to the old timers.

Accu-Stats has the West/Zuglan match - just ordered it.

Also ordered a Mizerak vs. Sigel match from the 1989 US Open where the Miz runs a 104. I wish there was more footage of the Miz playing top flight straight pool. His stroke was incredible.

Edit: Also went a little overboard and bought Rempe winning one of the SROs.
 
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Accu-Stats has the West/Zuglan match - just ordered it.

Also ordered a Mizerak vs. Sigel match from the 1989 US Open where the Miz runs a 104. I wish there was more footage of the Miz playing top flight straight pool. His stroke was incredible.

Edit: Also went a little overboard and bought Rempe winning one of the SROs.
Money well spent. Enjoy the commentary.
 
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