What would be the equivalent to a strong 9 ball player (able to string 2-3 racks every day). How many balls would you run on a miss (with easy 1st table) in 14.1. I don't think it would be a 100 ball runner, maybe 60+ per day.
14.1 vs 9 ball
- Thread starter Jason Robichaud
- Start date
Jason Robichaud said:
I would have to agree that a player that can run 2-3 racks of 9ball probably won't be 100 ball runner. It takes a ton of skill and concentration to run 100. 2-3 racks of 9ball your concentrating for 10 minutes, 100 ball run your level of concentration has to be held for an hour+, tough to do.
I would say 30-40 ball runner daily.
I suppose it depends on what kind of consistency we're talking about. If it's only once a day I would agree with it being a daily 30-40 ball runner.
It's a tough comparison though. Since running racks can be very easy or challenging depending on the layout a good 9 ball player has to rely on more skills than simply running balls. 14.1 on the other hand is a far more agressive game with a heavier empthasis on rack running.
IMHO 9 ball can be painfully easy when the balls start rolling your way. 14.1 has never ceased to be challenging.
It's a tough comparison though. Since running racks can be very easy or challenging depending on the layout a good 9 ball player has to rely on more skills than simply running balls. 14.1 on the other hand is a far more agressive game with a heavier empthasis on rack running.
IMHO 9 ball can be painfully easy when the balls start rolling your way. 14.1 has never ceased to be challenging.
I'm not sure I could give you a good 9-ball run to straight pool run ratio.
Let me say this: If player A is the better 9-ball player and player B is the better straight pool player, I would tend to consider player B the better player. That's just me. :grin:
Let me say this: If player A is the better 9-ball player and player B is the better straight pool player, I would tend to consider player B the better player. That's just me. :grin:
Jason Robichaud said:
An interesting question, but I think you have to frame it a little better. Let's say you (not you Jason, this is hypothetical) set aside two hours to play 9-ball every day by yourself. You play it from the break. You do this two hours a day for 5 days. Over the 5 days you score 4 two-packs, 2 three-packs, and maybe a dozen or more one-packs.
Now you play straight pool for two hours each day for 5 days. You start by racking 14 and giving yourself a nice but not easy break shot, and then running from there.
Assuming you are a mainly a 9-ball player and don't have a lot of 14.1 experience, my guess is that during your five 14.1 days you will score one or two runs in the 40's, three or four in the 30's and quite a few 20's. No way do I think this hypothetical 9-ball person will run 100, and I think 60 is possible but unlikely. This is only my guess and I'd be interested in other opinions.
Every break in 9-ball will spread the balls all over and usually with no clusters. That's seldom true in 14.1. A lot of times in 14.1 you'll break some balls out but be left without a shot. Very frustrating.
Rich93 said:
I am better than the 9 ball player you have listed, little better than the 14.1. I am in the 30's every day, but getting to that 4th rack with any regularity is a problem. I was expecting, with a snooker background, that break building would be easier. My biggest problem at this time is finishing on the break ball. I need to leave/play the last 2 or 3 balls better. I also need to focus on those rail balls earlier.
Starting this, I didn't think 100 would be hard. Once I understand how to play the balls better, I think 100 will happen. My runs are cleaner while developing racks that would have ended me a few days ago, I would guess at this time I'm a "C" 14.1 player and on my way to a 100 (I hope).
Jason Robichaud said:
So maybe my guesstimate wasn't too far off.
Straight pool is a great game and not as easy as it might look to some. When I was a teenager I saw Mosconi twice and Jimmy Caras once giving exhibitions for new poolrooms (post-Hustler boom). They made it look so easy. The Caras exhibition was the best of the three. The local opponent lost the lag and broke, leaving Caras a shot. Caras then ran 125 and out, and never seemed to shoot a hard shot. He then stopped and gave his unfortunate opponent a chance to shoot. The poor guy made one or two balls, I think, and then missed.
Caras then did his trick shots, one of which I couldn't believe and still kind of wonder if it really happened, if my memory isn't deceiving me. To demonstrate a monster draw, he lined up a short shot into the corner with the cue ball maybe a foot away. He made the easy shot and drew the cueball three rails around the table and knocked in a ball hanging in the opposite corner pocket. I'm sure it was a 9 foot table, Gold Crown I.
If you run in the 30's every day with no problem you are better than a C straight pool player.
DogsPlayingPool said:
The first 2 have a few problems, the 3rd seems to be full of them. I change the way I play; want to get into the 4th too bad. My patterns change and I start to chase easy balls rather than the problem balls. It will come though. I just need to play the same every shot.
I fit your "9ball player description" pretty well. And I average about what everyone is saying per race to 100. A twenty or two, sometimes thirty, i'll even post up a forty or so every now and then, but 100 seems almost unobtainable for me. 9ball does not a straight pool player make. They are just two different games.
I guess you could think of it as a marathon runner is in great shape, can push their body to the limit for extended periods of time, but won't win the Tour de France. The skill sets just get lost in translation somehow.
Justin.
I guess you could think of it as a marathon runner is in great shape, can push their body to the limit for extended periods of time, but won't win the Tour de France. The skill sets just get lost in translation somehow.
Justin.
Tough comparison because the games are very different although the basic skills, ball pocketing and position, are the same. There's a big difference between a game where your next shot is determined by the rules of the game versus a game where you may have multiple choices but only one of those choices will be the right one in the end.
I would say that a player who plays a lot of 14.1 but not much 9-ball will have better results as a new 9-ball player than someone who always plays 9-ball and tries 14.1. It's amazing how easy it is to get stuck without a shot in 14.1 while attempting to navigate around the pack; there's very little "traffic" to deal with in 9-ball because there are only nine balls and they are blasted open at the break. It looks easy but even running 25 or 30 in 14.1 can be very hard to do.
I would say that a player who plays a lot of 14.1 but not much 9-ball will have better results as a new 9-ball player than someone who always plays 9-ball and tries 14.1. It's amazing how easy it is to get stuck without a shot in 14.1 while attempting to navigate around the pack; there's very little "traffic" to deal with in 9-ball because there are only nine balls and they are blasted open at the break. It looks easy but even running 25 or 30 in 14.1 can be very hard to do.
selftaut said:
I watch a lot of 14.1 Accu-Stats videos and you would be surprised how often the best players in the world start with an open rack where their opponent misses and run less than 25 or 30 from there. There are some incredible runs on these videos but even the best players miss and get stuck without a shot or play a rack wrong and have to play a safety. I'm not a very good player and I struggle with the game (high run of 27) so it's amazing to me that anyone can run 100 balls, there's just so many things that can go wrong anytime balls get moved around when they are in close proximity.
Zagiflyer said:
If it makes you feel any better, the professional average (not taking into account safety innings) is around 30-35 balls per inning. In the first Schmidt-Harriman match to 400 points, John averaged 33 balls per inning and Danny averaged around 27. I'm reciting these stats from memory but they are correct within 1 or 2 balls.
The biggest reason why a ball runner doesn't play up to their potential is generally because they aren't thinking right. They aren't seeing the table well at that point in time. Also, there are a lot of things that can and do go wrong which stops runs short, not neccessarily misses. It's the great player who manages and foresees the risks, that can go on and run hundreds of balls.
stevekur1 said:
I have been pissed lots in 9 ball, but never have I wanted to smash my cue and then smash the little pieces from smashing my cue:angry:
I did a video only 28 balls, Since I didn't know if the last shot was legal I stopped. I know it is poor quality, but any advice would be great.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TgPWGRZj8g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TgPWGRZj8g
stevekur1 said:
9-ball isn't my favorite game either. I can appreciate the skill necessary to be a good 9-ball player (it's NOT an easy game) because it requires good shot making and the abilty to move the cue ball long distances accurately but I don't find the game that interesting. I like 14.1 and 8-ball more because you (usually) can choose which ball to shoot and your choices determine the rest of the rack. It's like a puzzle that changes every time a ball moves. I think that America is a nation with a very short attention span and limited patience; 9-ball appeals to that mindset. 9-ball a good game and every game helps you improve your skills but it's not my favorite. I don't play one-pocket but that looks interesting as well, a chance use some different skills and really improve speed control, touch and learn more about banking angles.
I doubt that a player who mainly runs 9-Ball racks would do well in 14.1. It's just too diffrent and even if someone can run 5 racks (=45 balls) he'll hardly get much further than 20 or 25.
9-Ball is pure pattern play, the paths are determined by the numbers on the balls, before you shoot the one you run the rack in your mind and play it down in a matter of a minute or two.
Straight Pool is much more chess, there is not THE pattern to play, often you have to deal with clusters, may be manufacture a break ball if there isn't any or if the break goes wrong you have to shoot a ball out of the cluster (like Hohmann did on the propoolvideo.com video against Hopkins) to keep the run going.
Over here in Germany we're all all-round players due to our league system, but you don't have to play 14.1 all the time, 8 and 9-ball is possible as well. Never the less we all practice 14.1 in case we have to react to the halftime score. You really see the difference in the style of playing between a regular league 14.1 player and someone who just plays it from time to time and plays 8 and 9 ball in league matches
9-Ball is pure pattern play, the paths are determined by the numbers on the balls, before you shoot the one you run the rack in your mind and play it down in a matter of a minute or two.
Straight Pool is much more chess, there is not THE pattern to play, often you have to deal with clusters, may be manufacture a break ball if there isn't any or if the break goes wrong you have to shoot a ball out of the cluster (like Hohmann did on the propoolvideo.com video against Hopkins) to keep the run going.
Over here in Germany we're all all-round players due to our league system, but you don't have to play 14.1 all the time, 8 and 9-ball is possible as well. Never the less we all practice 14.1 in case we have to react to the halftime score. You really see the difference in the style of playing between a regular league 14.1 player and someone who just plays it from time to time and plays 8 and 9 ball in league matches
Just did another 43 run... Someone sent a video and diagrams and it really helped. I finished the video and headed down to the table. First try 43!