1pocket Question

[GetMeThere]

I ain't no 1p player, but the calculus of this seems hard to refute: A move that goes from ZERO balls on your side (effectively as it is now) to having TWO balls on your side (and in not really great bank territory for the other side) has to be a pretty strong one.

So feather the 8 enough to rearrange the 8 and 9 well, and bring the CB down to his side, on the rail hopefully lower than the second diamond, and you've done well. Neither the 1 or the 3 seem safe to shoot at with you needing only 2 balls--which could easily come into play.

In fact at that point his next shot would probably be to bank the 8 or 9 up table.

Leaving the 8-9 as they are seems to actually give more play to HIM than to you.

EDIT: Just looked again and I see that the CB position makes handling it well difficult. Might have to hit the rail first before hitting the 8, in order to break them and head to his lower side rail.

 

[pdcue]

Sound thinking. But wouldn't you be worried about being one and two railed to death by a good shooter and suddenly it 6-5 or 6-6?

Lou Figueroa

This is a good example of why being a good Bank player is so important
in One Pocket.

You are winning 6 to 3. By driving the balls up table, you effectively
change the game to Bank Pool, and he has to beat you 5 to 1.

Any Bank Pool champion wants to spot me 5 to 1, I'm ready.

Now, in real life - the "perfect" response is to knock the 6 into the lane of the 3
AND stick the CB to the foot rail.

Dale

 

[Zbotiman]

At 6 / 3 YOU?

This is a good example of why being a good Bank player is so important
in One Pocket.

You are winning 6 to 3. By driving the balls up table, you effectively
change the game to Bank Pool, and he has to beat you 5 to 1.

Any Bank Pool champion wants to spot me 5 to 1, I'm ready.

Now, in real life - the "perfect" response is to knock the 6 into the lane of the 3
AND stick the CB to the foot rail.

Dale

........this kind of thinking at, 6 / 3 YOU, makes (%) SENSE!

The one slight variation I would try, is to use the cue-ball momentum to roll the cue-ball over to the first diamond above HIS corner pocket after contacting the 6. A little high right on whitey (about 1 o'clock english) and the 6 is thereby bounced into the banking lane, a little further up table. "IF" the cue is on that side rail, you "DO" leave a low percentage 2 railer, BUT, a bank with penalties for him if he goes for it. (Now, he's supposed to shoot at a white flag here down 6 / 3) so leave everything POORLY situated and you've done your J-O-B!

Coming behind that 8, 9, and crossing it to his pocket "IS" possible, BUT, only with WHITEY up table, so my long term goal is to: (1) Get control of the table and "BUNCH THE REMAINING BALLS UP" as soon as possible, (2) FORCING the issue, of playing for 1-ball at a time.

 

[lfigueroa]

Simply 2 rail the 1 ball using low right on the cue ball to hit the long rail 1st near your opponent's pocket and reverse spin back down/up table (I never know which is which). If you hit it bad and sell out, your opponent has to break up those 2 balls on your side for you . I love 1-pocket!

dave

I actually know this shot and shot it once against Ike Runnels in a tournament But this is probably a poor choice given the score -- I'd be putting another ball into play. Of course, IF you hit it perfect and hide the one near you hole all is swell. But do you bet on perfect on a circus shot?

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Well, first of all, I'll play ball for ball anytime I'm up 6 -3. Second of all, we aren't talking about just leaving balls up table, we're talking about taking a ball away from his pocket that he can make and get position on another shot, or maybe even worse, play a shot to put a second ball next to his pocket along with that 6 ball.

There will be plenty of opportunity for you to open up those balls on your side. There is no need to be in a hurry. First things first, you remove that ball and if you can do so and block a banking lane on him, all the better.

My apologies -- I suffer from Wei Table dyslexia (no really). I meant you'd be leaving more ball *down*table. But I like your thinking about be willing to play ball for ball.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou, from the positions of the six and the cue ball it's very unlikely that you would leave and easy bank on the six by kicking at it. If you hit it fairly good the six goes toward your pocket and the cue will travel down table.

If you hit it bad (full) then the six goes toward the two balls that are tied up and the cue remains where the six is at.

To give up a decent bank on the six you would have to hit the six and get a kiss on it for both balls to remain there for a possible easy bank on the six.

P.S. I don't like the bank on the six three rails, trying to get it your side of the table. You'll either lose control of the six or the cue ball. And as far as leaving some kind of shot, there will always be something for him to shoot at. Never mind who you're playing just shoot the best percentage.

I hit that kick shot good, but I'm not so sure the likely outcomes are as likely as you paint them. But, I shall try the kick today and report back.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Hit the 6 nearly full leaving it near his side rail blocking his long bank on the 3. He may try to two-rail the 1 if your shot works, but that's harder to control and he may leave a bank on the 6. I'd worry next about the 8-9 which might be dead or close to dead to his pocket.

Ah, the great silent Buddha speaks Actually, this is what I did and he did two-rail the one.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Good call here Bob. I would want to break those two up next. And from the bottom rail, sending them down table.

This guy was able to keep banking balls towards his hole. It took me another four innings to finally get an opportunity to open up my side.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

So now we want to know what happened.

What did you do Lou? And what was the ultimate result?

Well, like I said I moved the six down by his side and then he two-railed the one. After four innings I did get them open -- not much, but so that they were sitting side-by-side. And then, he left me an extreme bank off the end rail and I shot it, hung it, and was able to swing the cue ball cross table and leave him on the end rail up table and unable to see/hit the ball. He tried hitting hitting the ball from behind and kicking it out but whiffed the ball. Game to Lou

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Actually I like leaving the cue ball about where it is, but touching both the 1 and the rail if possible. From there he HAS to shoot his way out, so he can't leave you there again without a foul. Only thing he has is possibly a 3 railer on the 9 and he ain't shooting that down 3.

Leaving him there, that 8/9 would be hard for him to resist -- to send two balls towards his hole. They're sitting pretty good for that.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I just tested a couple of routes on my table and had success with the following:

1) I thined the 8 and brought the cueball up to the head rail. The 9 moved toward my pocket. As my opponent, I would then not feel comfortable shooting any bank since the 9 was now makeable in my pocket from almost anywhere. Of course I may have just hit it well, the speed control and accuracy are very important.

2) I snugged the cueball right up behind the one. It just so happened that the cueball then hugged the rail, making it difficult for my opponent to return the shot. In fact there really was no shot. My opponent would have risked scratching or taking a foul. At the best, my opponent would probably give me a shot on the 3 and let me out of the trap.

As a result I vote #2 for simplicity and ease of execution.

Certainly, #2 has the value of being easy to execute 100% of the time, so I do think it is a worthy solution for consideration. But -- I already have a shot on the three, so I'm not too sure there's any advantage to waiting.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I ain't no 1p player, but the calculus of this seems hard to refute: A move that goes from ZERO balls on your side (effectively as it is now) to having TWO balls on your side (and in not really great bank territory for the other side) has to be a pretty strong one.

So feather the 8 enough to rearrange the 8 and 9 well, and bring the CB down to his side, on the rail hopefully lower than the second diamond, and you've done well. Neither the 1 or the 3 seem safe to shoot at with you needing only 2 balls--which could easily come into play.

In fact at that point his next shot would probably be to bank the 8 or 9 up table.

Leaving the 8-9 as they are seems to actually give more play to HIM than to you.

EDIT: Just looked again and I see that the CB position makes handling it well difficult. Might have to hit the rail first before hitting the 8, in order to break them and head to his lower side rail.

I actually did end up feathering them open, a few innings later, for exactly the reasons you mention. But from the starting position, the speed issue you mention is touchy and if you let the CB go too far back up table you could easily sellout a bank.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

This is a good example of why being a good Bank player is so important
in One Pocket.

You are winning 6 to 3. By driving the balls up table, you effectively
change the game to Bank Pool, and he has to beat you 5 to 1.

Any Bank Pool champion wants to spot me 5 to 1, I'm ready.

Now, in real life - the "perfect" response is to knock the 6 into the lane of the 3
AND stick the CB to the foot rail.

Dale

You know it's a funny thing about playing bank pool players 1pocket. I've beaten Piggy (twice) and Jarvis (once) and the late Charlie Green (broke even) and they were not such tough matches for me. I'm not saying I want to play them every day, but I think there is a distinction to be made between a Bank Pool player and a good 1pocket player who knows how to bank. Of course, Brumback fried me twice

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

........this kind of thinking at, 6 / 3 YOU, makes (%) SENSE!

The one slight variation I would try, is to use the cue-ball momentum to roll the cue-ball over to the first diamond above HIS corner pocket after contacting the 6. A little high right on whitey (about 1 o'clock english) and the 6 is thereby bounced into the banking lane, a little further up table. "IF" the cue is on that side rail, you "DO" leave a low percentage 2 railer, BUT, a bank with penalties for him if he goes for it. (Now, he's supposed to shoot at a white flag here down 6 / 3) so leave everything POORLY situated and you've done your J-O-B!

Coming behind that 8, 9, and crossing it to his pocket "IS" possible, BUT, only with WHITEY up table, so my long term goal is to: (1) Get control of the table and "BUNCH THE REMAINING BALLS UP" as soon as possible, (2) FORCING the issue, of playing for 1-ball at a time.

Of course you're right. And that's why patience is a virtue playing 1pocket.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Testa]

I have always been a fan of moving balls upstairs if I'm ahead in the count and only need a couple - I would rather make my opponent bank out the 6 he needs vs breaking open the 2 balls and god forbid he makes a 2 rail bank or a short rail bank and makes the 2 you just opened up - then he needs 3 and you 2 - I would do what you did get a uhaul and move that furniture upstairs keeping only the balls you need in play .

 

[bstroud]

Lou,

I think I would shoot at the 6 ball with some left English and try to get the cue ball near and behind the two balls near your pocket. If you are successful you might force you opponent to break up the cluster for you. You might get lucky and move the 2 balls on the same shot just enough to break them up.
Aggressive shot but that's the way I play.

The balls on your side are no good to you as they are because you can't make them and they are blocking an end rail bank.

Bill Stroud

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou,

I think I would shoot at the 6 ball with some left English and try to get the cue ball near and behind the two balls near your pocket. If you are successful you might force you opponent to break up the cluster for you. You might get lucky and move the 2 balls on the same shot just enough to break them up.
Aggressive shot but that's the way I play.

The balls on your side are no good to you as they are because you can't make them and they are blocking an end rail bank.

Bill Stroud

Hi, Bill, long time no talk.

I really like your idea and to be honest hadn't thought of it (I don't think anyone else did either), but it's a great idea. I'm going to give a try today and see how it works out. I'll report back.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Big Perm]

Lou,

I'd gently knock the 1 over by the 3, putting a little top to roll the cue straight to about the center of the table on the top rail.....if he can make that thin cut, from off the rail, the length of the table on a tight 9 footer, then more power to him.....keeping cueball control on such a thin cut is tough, and avoiding any roll-off at that distance is a challenge....also, it helps me to take away his bank possibility on the 3 and the 1.....

Granted, I ain't no 1 pocket champion

 

[14.1pocket]

I don't think there really is a wrong shot here. It looks like your opponent is going to have some type of bank left no matter what. If they can get out being down 6-3 from here then they deserve the game.

I think getting the 6 up near the 1 as close to the rail as possible is a good play. Leaving it on the head string or lower could give your opponent another ball if they make a bank and giving more options on turning the game in their favour.

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou,

I'd gently knock the 1 over by the 3, putting a little top to roll the cue straight to about the center of the table on the top rail.....if he can make that thin cut, from off the rail, the length of the table on a tight 9 footer, then more power to him.....keeping cueball control on such a thin cut is tough, and avoiding any roll-off at that distance is a challenge....also, it helps me to take away his bank possibility on the 3 and the 1.....

Granted, I ain't no 1 pocket champion

I see what you're saying, Big Perm, but as I see it, that almost forces the guy to shoot the 8/9 combo bank. Unless he really butchers that shot he's going to end up with three open balls on his side. AND, if he she-ats out, he could conceivably make a ball on a shot like that.

Lou Figueroa