2+ Questions for Deno

[rackmsuckr]

1. We know what the dress code is, but what is the ruling on logos? If sponsors want us to wear their logos, is there a predefined area and size and amount that can be worn? Do they need to be embroidered/imprinted on the clothing or can they be stickers like Karen Corr wears for Falcon?

2. What would be the requirements for a room owner to hold a qualifier? I have a few that are interested in my area and they are asking me already. Obviously, there is still some time and you are still working it out (priority is to get at least the first 2 events done), I understand, but if you have any information now, it might be helpful to all in this forum. You also have to understand how excited everyone is about the IPT and the furor it has caused for top players across the country. Many who were not selected are very interested to know how and where they can play in a qualifier for 2007.

I know that for the WPBA, there is a minimum overhead space requirement for placement of the TV cameras to hold one of their events. How many tables? What would be the minimum needed to be added? Is there a sanctioning fee to the IPT? How can they lock up their area? Are you going to have a bidding system for each territory? Is there a possibility of doing it out of 2 or more rooms (working together) at the same time? I would imagine interest will be huge and these will be filled fast. Would each qualifier be responsible for their own media and advertising, or would the IPT do that to have a consistent look and feel? Thanks Deno, for what you are able to provide at this time.

Linda

 

[Gabber]

Mmmmmmmmmm

1. We know what the dress code is,If you know what the dress code is, you wouldnt be asking! Would you now! but what is the ruling on logos? If sponsors want us to wear their logos, is there a predefined area and size and amount that can be worn? Do they need to be embroidered/imprinted on the clothing or can they be stickers like Karen Corr wears for Falcon?

2. What would be the requirements for a room owner to hold a qualifier? I have a few that are interested in my area and they are asking me already. Who? Give us the names. Obviously, there is still some time and you are still working it out (priority is to get at least the first 2 events done), I understand, but if you have any information now, it might be helpful to all in this forum. You also have to understand how excited everyone is about the IPT and the furor it has caused for top players across the country. Many who were not selected are very interested to know how and where they can play in a qualifier for 2007.OMG

I know that for the WPBA, there is a minimum overhead space requirement for placement of the TV cameras to hold one of their events. How many tables? What would be the minimum needed to be added? Is there a sanctioning fee to the IPT? How can they lock up their area? Are you going to have a bidding system for each territory? Is there a possibility of doing it out of 2 or more rooms (working together) at the same time? I would imagine interest will be huge and these will be filled fast. Would each qualifier be responsible for their own media and advertising, or would the IPT do that to have a consistent look and feel? Thanks Deno, for what you are able to provide at this time.

Linda

Is there a sanctioning fee to the IPT? How can they lock up their area? Are you going to have a bidding system for each territory?


The guy hasnt even paid a single pro pool player or held a proper tournament and we are getting this shit about ' locking up and bidding?

Suddenly the picture changes .........

One pocket chump, I,m calling. Didnt I tell ya!........and try and be objective now.

Infomercial.

G............

 

[rackmsuckr]

Is there a sanctioning fee to the IPT? How can they lock up their area? Are you going to have a bidding system for each territory?


The guy hasnt even paid a single pro pool player or held a proper tournament and we are getting this shit about ' locking up and bidding?

Suddenly the picture changes .........

One pocket chump, I,m calling. Didnt I tell ya!........and try and be objective now.

Infomercial.

G............

Gabber,

You are the most vocal AZer about your disapproval about the IPT, it is well-known and I even understand your caution. But I put this thread up here for valid answers to other player's questions in my area.

We were given a dress code but it did not address logos.

Sanctioning fees (for lack of a better term) and bidding for territory are accepted practices in any industry. Whether organizations decide to pay them is a different matter. I don't think they need to raise money, but it certainly could add to the coffers of the IPT to do so, and we all know you have to run the IPT like a business. That is why I am asking which way they are going. Are they going to be so afraid of criticism of making money from the 1-2% of people like you, so that they won't take a dime, or will they try to recoup some of their costs?

I don't know if you have you ever tried to run a tour or a qualifier to a pro event, but I have and I do know you need to start months in advance to put something together. No matter how bitter you are, please address your venom in another thread. I am only looking for valid answers in this one. Thank you.

 

[Rude Dog]

Gabber,

You are the most vocal AZer about your disapproval about the IPT, it is well-known and I even understand your caution. But I put this thread up here for valid answers to other player's questions in my area.

We were given a dress code but it did not address logos.

Sanctioning fees (for lack of a better term) and bidding for territory are accepted practices in any industry. Whether organizations decide to pay them is a different matter. I don't think they need to raise money, but it certainly could add to the coffers of the IPT to do so, and we all know you have to run the IPT like a business. That is why I am asking which way they are going. Are they going to be so afraid of criticism of making money from the 1-2% of people like you, so that they won't take a dime, or will they try to recoup some of their costs?

I don't know if you have you ever tried to run a tour or a qualifier to a pro event, but I have and I do know you need to start months in advance to put something together. No matter how bitter you are, please address your venom in another thread. I am only looking for valid answers in this one. Thank you.

Tap Tap Tap, well said.

 

[Jimmy M.]

Tap Tap Tap

You've been completely assimilated, I'm afraid. You're a tapper now. *sigh*

 

[onepocketchump]

Is there a sanctioning fee to the IPT? How can they lock up their area? Are you going to have a bidding system for each territory?


The guy hasnt even paid a single pro pool player or held a proper tournament and we are getting this shit about ' locking up and bidding?

Suddenly the picture changes .........

One pocket chump, I,m calling. Didnt I tell ya!........and try and be objective now.

Infomercial.

G............

Well, I don't know why Linda doesn't just ask these questions directly to the IPT and I don't know that they would be answered by the IPT in this forum. What I don know is who the hell cares, they are valid questions after all. Do you think Linda is on the secret payroll to be a shill for the IPT? I heard a rumor that it was Kevin on the grassy knoll too.

Objective? Man see it for what it is - a new venture/adventure. If it flops then so what? The XFL went belly up, so the WFL (world football league), and any number of ventures in other sports. Some of them lost hundreds of millions of dollars. In the interim however, some players in those ventures made a good bit of money for themselves.

But, even if Linda is on the secret IPT Infomercial Squad - so what? The whole thing is run by the infomerical king. That would be what I would expect him to do and what should be done to promote his venture.

John

 

[Str8PoolMan]

Is there a sanctioning fee to the IPT? How can they lock up their area? Are you going to have a bidding system for each territory?


The guy hasnt even paid a single pro pool player or held a proper tournament and we are getting this shit about ' locking up and bidding?

Suddenly the picture changes .........

One pocket chump, I,m calling. Didnt I tell ya!........and try and be objective now.

Infomercial.

G............

Gabber,
While I am with you as far as skepticism about the IPT, not about the success or failure of the tour, but about KT's so-called commitment to it, I have to go along with <rackmsuckr> on this one. There are plenty of other threads where we can "spread our venom" about the California Con Man.
We especially shouldn't do it here. She is doing what everyone should be doing, ASKING QUESTIONS. The people who are running this tour talk about what a great plan they have for ensuring success, but they have been playing it very close to the vest when it comes to giving out information. Most people (at least the ones on this forum) seem to be accepting what little the IPT tells them and are afraid to question anything for fear that they will lose their stake in all this money being thrown around. <rackmsuckr> is simply trying to get some important information. She should be able to do so without us naysayers giving her crap for it. As a matter of fact, we should be encouraging more of this from everyone.

 

[onepocketchump]

Here is a real quick breakdown of the money I expect to earn from the IPT. $0 as a player. $0 as an employee of Sterling Gaming.

Here is what I exepct the billiard industry to earn from the success of the IPT - a hefty increase in participation which will lead to an increase in table and equipment sales. An increase in interest in organized play which will result in more league participation and frequenting of billiard rooms. How much? I have no clue. Right now though it is estimated that the ENTIRE billiard industry is worth 500 million annually. A 10% increase will make a lot of people pretty happy about the IPT.

That is why I hope the IPT succeeds. Not just so that a few players can profit. I hope we all benefit.

Now, as to the lack of information that some feel should be available. I submit that you go to the UPA's website and see what is available there, go to the PGA's website and see if it has information about qualifiers, and dress codes and sponsor logos. Jeez, you all act as if you have a right to have a webcam feed into Kevin's brain. Where were you when the BCA makes it's dumbass decisions, where were you when the WPA sold the World Championships? Where are you screaming about full disclosure for all of the pool organizations out there? The WPBA doesn't have the info you are asking about publicly available, so why should the IPT?

I suppose none of you geniuses have ever heard of competitive advantage? Well, here is a quick primer. In business, the most innocent piece of information relating to what a business is doing, or is about to do, can be fatal if the competition beats them to market with it. None of you have any clue whether someone ELSE with MONEY might be planning their own pool tour. This is unlikely but it is still in the realm of possibility. And before you go off screaming about how I am a know-nothing nit I have been the victim of just such tactics when my own ideas were used against me by others who brought them to market before me because I was a loudmouth about what I was developing.

John

 

[Deno J. Andrews]

Hi Linda.

1. Still working out the details.
2. Still working out the details.

You will be emailed in the typical IPT/Player communications that regularly occur when this information becomes finalized.

Sorry

Deno

 

[rackmsuckr]

Hi Linda.

1. Still working out the details.
2. Still working out the details.

You will be emailed in the typical IPT/Player communications that regularly occur when this information becomes finalized.

Sorry

Deno

Thanks Deno, for the quick response.

Linda

 

[jjinfla]

Linda,

Those really are tough questions and I am sure the legal minds will have to mull them over for some time.

Don't be surprised if sponsor logos are not even allowed. The NFL only allows certain ones. A player can not cover his uniform with logos. NASCAR, on the other hand, allows their driver's to fill every available space with a logo of their choice. I wonder how much NASCAR receives for this?

How does the WPBA work it? I do see logos on some of the WPBA players but a lot of them are also sponsors of the tournament. Unfortunately, most of the logos the women wear are not readable by the viewers.

And since every player gets paid to participate they can be considered employees of the IPT and have to follow the rules of the Company - the IPT.

 

[Gabber]

Linda,

Those really are tough questions and I am sure the legal minds will have to mull them over for some time.

Don't be surprised if sponsor logos are not even allowed. The NFL only allows certain ones. A player can not cover his uniform with logos. NASCAR, on the other hand, allows their driver's to fill every available space with a logo of their choice. I wonder how much NASCAR receives for this?

How does the WPBA work it? I do see logos on some of the WPBA players but a lot of them are also sponsors of the tournament. Unfortunately, most of the logos the women wear are not readable by the viewers.

And since every player gets paid to participate Prize money is not a salary, at least not where I come from. they can be considered employees of the IPT Have they signed contracts? Do they get sick pay?and have to follow the rules of the Company - the IPT.

Yes, they have to follow the rules of the tourny.

By no stretch of the imagination can it be argued that a player who enters a tournament is automatically considered an emplee.

G

 

[JAM]

Yes, they have to follow the rules of the tourny.

By no stretch of the imagination can it be argued that a player who enters a tournament is automatically considered an employee.

Pool players, IMHO, are free-lancers, unless, of course, they receive compensation from a sponsor. In that instance, I would think they have an allegiance to the sponsor to promote their product.

Since, to my knowledge, with the exception of Mike Sigel and Loree Jon Jones, no player has attended an IPT players meeting, the details pertaining to logos and the like have not been disseminated as of this time. The issues which are of concern to some posters, whether an IPT member or a pool enthusiast, will be clarified at that time.

It is my understanding that there will be a players meeting that will occur in conjunction with the IPT King of the Hill Shootout in Orlando, November 30th through December 5th; thus, the reason why it is a mandatory attendance for all 150 IPT members.

I saw a couple of players in recent times wearing the green-black-and-white IPT logo on their shirts, proudly I might add.

JAM

 

[jjinfla]

Yes, they have to follow the rules of the tourny.

By no stretch of the imagination can it be argued that a player who enters a tournament is automatically considered an emplee.

G

Well Gabber, hopefully that will be the case in the future. Just like in the NFL, NBA, NHL, etc. All players are there because they are selected by the respective owners and yes they are employees. Well paid employees I might add. And speaking of dress code how many basketball players are going to defy the new dress code set up by the NBA? And this applies to when they are traveling with the team as well when they are coming to and from the stadium. I think I saw a big line of players at the big and tall dress suit shop.

And if I am paying you to play for me then yes you are my employee. If you have problems with that then you can go play somewhere else and don't expect a paycheck from me. That is no different then when I hire someone to cut my grass.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... And if I am paying you to play for me then yes you are my employee. If you have problems with that then you can go play somewhere else and don't expect a paycheck from me. That is no different then when I hire someone to cut my grass.

I think you and the IRS have different opinions. The IPT really, really doesn't want the players to legally be employees of the IPT. Tiger Woods is not an employee of the Augusta National Golf Club.

 

[SlimShafty]

I think you and the IRS have different opinions. The IPT really, really doesn't want the players to legally be employees of the IPT. Tiger Woods is not an employee of the Augusta National Golf Club.

Yeah that's for sure, there is a huge list of problems that would create, the IPT is not going to be an employer. Just like real estate agents are self employed, they still have to adhere to the rules of whatever office they work in, such as a dress code or other office specific rules, and the office also takes a cut from all sales or listings, the IPT is similar in the way it will promote the players and offer them a venue to play in, and the chance at winnings and a larger public image. Since the IPT offers this service the players have to adhere to rules of the tour there playing in.

 

[rackmsuckr]

Linda,

Those really are tough questions and I am sure the legal minds will have to mull them over for some time.

Don't be surprised if sponsor logos are not even allowed. The NFL only allows certain ones. A player can not cover his uniform with logos. NASCAR, on the other hand, allows their driver's to fill every available space with a logo of their choice. I wonder how much NASCAR receives for this?

How does the WPBA work it? I do see logos on some of the WPBA players but a lot of them are also sponsors of the tournament. Unfortunately, most of the logos the women wear are not readable by the viewers.

And since every player gets paid to participate they can be considered employees of the IPT and have to follow the rules of the Company - the IPT.

First off, I have to say that EVERY player is not getting paid to participate. I have shelled out quite a bit from my own pocket to pay for 2 flights for myself and Stan Tourangeau (Mike is using a buddy pass on another airline), hotel for a week, shuttle for 3 to and from the airport, and a week's pass for unlimited trolley service for 3. When you consider that this is a mandatory meeting only, with no way for us 3 to recoup costs and in January, I will need to do the same thing plus entry fees and another flight, and that the bottom 75 do not receive any compensation, you can see where I am headed for the next year. Speaking just for myself only, I am looking at a significant loss. Would I ever NOT go? Of course not! I am paying for the privilege of 33 years of playing pool, to play with the legends in the game, and promote pool as I have always tried to do.

Second, to help ease expenses, we are naturally looking for outside sponsorship. I have offered to stake Stan, so I am not without my own resources, however, while that means I have 2 horses running for me (ok, 3 ), it is more expense too. Paying for 2 students in college takes its toll for me too. Until we know what is allowed in logos, we cannot go forward and approach sponsors with any kind of package. That is why I needed to know early. The costs are now, not in January or even at the player's meeting later this month where none of us 3 will be cashing in.

Multiple sponsors to share the burden would of course mean multiple logos. Without looking like NASCAR, I am sure there will be an equitable way to wear them. The WPBA has a certain size restriction (which might be why they are hard to see), but not much else, as those tacky stickers can attest to.

Since we are not guaranteed a paycheck, or steady income, we cannot be considered employees. We are members of a sports organization, where participation is voluntary. Of course, you may lose your spot, but the point is, the decisions to play or not rest with us.

Like any sports organization, there are rules that must be abided by when you are in the venue they procured, playing on the equipment they procured, etc. This is a professional association and we are expected to dress and behave accordingly. When I ran our regional tour, the same rules were expected to be followed.

Linda

 

[onepocketchump]

I think you and the IRS have different opinions. The IPT really, really doesn't want the players to legally be employees of the IPT. Tiger Woods is not an employee of the Augusta National Golf Club.

I think the proper comparison would be that the PGA players are not employees of the PGA. Membership is mandatory to play in PGA events but the members pay for the membership.

Employment is where you get paid for the activity. Contract labor is where you get paid for the activity. In the case of tournaments the participants pay to do the activity and are not paid to be the there.

I don't go to work for the chance at a paycheck.

As far as the expense to attend the IPT tournaments goes, well participation is voluntary, attendance is mandatory.

Personally, if I applied to the IPT and I thought I was not going to be able to make the cut so to speak then I would probably give up my spot in favor of someone else with a better shot at it. I say probably because the player in me would want to find out if I could step up my game when among the best in the world. It's a new day. Gonna be a wild ride.

John

 

[rackmsuckr]

I say probably because the player in me would want to find out if I could step up my game when among the best in the world. It's a new day. Gonna be a wild ride.

John

Exactly! Can you see anyone giving up their spot even if they have no chance of cashing in? In my defense, I have broken and run 6 racks of 8ball in a row on an 8 footer. So I can play a little. I told them from the beginning I didn't want to go unless my husband got picked (he has a good shot of making $). Looking back, how arrogant was that? After the list came out, the enormity of how small the field was compared to the hundreds that still deserved to be on it, much less that only 15 women in the world were chosen, just humbled me. What an honor to be making history! Go IPT!!!!

 

[jjinfla]

I imagine that technically all the players will be considered independent contractors just like extras working in a movie who might get paid $50 for sitting around waiting a couple days before they are called before the camera. As independent contractors the company does not have to deduct taxes for the Gov't. Nor do they pay for any hospitalization. A lot of nurses work that way. But independent contractors are still employees. And all the players will earn money for this tournament. $6200. For that paycheck they are expected to participate in the tournament and to attend the pre-game meetings. To conform to the rules set up by the tournament, play at their best level, and to be very nice to Jake.

LOL

Jake