2 rail kick(short rail first contact)

[CaptainJR]

Supergreenman

I've played a lot of pool. Weather this gimmick works or not doesn't matter to me because I've played enough pool to know how to hit a ball two rails without any gimmick type rules. Play enough pool and you will not need this type of thing.

It's like some people trying to substitute some kind of short cut for making a ball rather than learning to hit the contact point on the ball that will send it to the pocket. Learning short cuts that may or may not work, will not teach you the game.

Just play a lot of pool and this type of kick will come in due time. Before that it isn't going to help you anyway.
JR

 

[supergreenman]

Supergreenman

I've played a lot of pool. Weather this gimmick works or not doesn't matter to me because I've played enough pool to know how to hit a ball two rails without any gimmick type rules. Play enough pool and you will not need this type of thing.

It's like some people trying to substitute some kind of short cut for making a ball rather than learning to hit the contact point on the ball that will send it to the pocket. Learning short cuts that may or may not work, will not teach you the game.

Just play a lot of pool and this type of kick will come in due time. Before that it isn't going to help you anyway.
JR

Captiandude, I already have systems that work for me like I said earlier, I just read about this and wanted to try it. Heaven help me if I ever decide I know all I ever need to know about pool and shouldn't try new things.

You can never know too much. One system may get you out of a lock up where another might fail. It's good to have extra tools in the bag.

 

[Eric.]

Unless the english was unintentional. I'm pretty sure it was a center hit. Think more about a long follow through and less about hitting it hard. Just keep trying, I'm sure you will get it. By the way, did you know, deadaim is Jim Rempe? So I'm sure he knows a little.

Tracy

I'm pretty sure Deadaim/JR is NOT Jim Rempe. I believe it's Joe Rushinski from the Scranton PA area, who plays sporty as well and probably has been to Rempe for lesson's.

On a side note, this is a simple system with simple adjustments. Per the original post, this only works within a couple diamonds out of the corner. The aim/sighting is correct. What you need is to compensate:

After you find your aim point, extend the CB line thru your cue til you have a line to the OB-to-spot-on-wall. If the two lines are a half diamond apart, hit the CB at 11:00 (my stroke), if the lines are 1 full diamond apart, hit at 11.30 on the Cb, and so on. You just need to practice a tiny bit to get the correct "medium-firm" stroke. It's not that complicated.


Eric >maybe I should keep quiet...

 

[DaveK]

I've played a lot of pool. Weather this gimmick works or not doesn't matter to me because I've played enough pool to know how to hit a ball two rails without any gimmick type rules. Play enough pool and you will not need this type of thing.

It's like some people trying to substitute some kind of short cut for making a ball rather than learning to hit the contact point on the ball that will send it to the pocket. Learning short cuts that may or may not work, will not teach you the game.

Just play a lot of pool and this type of kick will come in due time. Before that it isn't going to help you anyway.

Gosh cap, yer getting as grouchy as me, and that's saying something

While this shot may be a bit limited in it's application, it is not a gimmick imo. While I have had no success with the shot (ps to Bob, the cueball will sometimes jump off the second rail when I play it ) it does seem to be a fair bit narrower than a typical 2 rail shot. I agree that there are typical 2 rail shots through a corner, but they too have limitations, it's tough to get them very narrow (or backwards) without inside english.

Knowing more shots is good for your game. Knowing when to use them is essential. There are some kick shots that are rarely used, but that doesn't make them unimportant. I recall a thread where Colin suggested a bunch of wild ways to hit an 'impossible hit' (it was not, just difficult). One of the wildest 3-rail-massse-off-the-first routes was outrageous and very fun, so I practiced it a bit ... damned if it didn't come up a few weeks later and my poor opponent was completely demoralized about his safety play after I played it. I haven't used it since, but I guarantee that my opponent from that day will remember what I did next time he's eyeing up a similar safety against me

Dave

 

[Williebetmore]

I'm pretty sure Deadaim/JR is NOT Jim Rempe.
Eric >maybe I should keep quiet...

Eric,
I believe you are correct. I corresponded a little with him; and I feel confident that he was just a friend of Jim Rempe's.

Of course this is the internet, and identity is always a gray area. Who would have suspected that breakup was really Charles Manson??? We need to be careful.

 

[Williebetmore]

Knowing more shots is good for your game.
Dave

Dave,
I think you may have made a typographical error. Are you sure you didn't mean, "Drinking more shots is good for your game"???? I thought you were from the Great White North? Only a hoser plays sober...Eh?

 

[CaptainJR]

Captiandude, I already have systems that work for me like I said earlier, I just read about this and wanted to try it. Heaven help me if I ever decide I know all I ever need to know about pool and shouldn't try new things.

You can never know too much. One system may get you out of a lock up where another might fail. It's good to have extra tools in the bag.

If this is the case then I was mistaken. I've just seen a few threads lately that people seem to be grabbing at anything to try to find a short cut to learning the game.

For example in this case if you have learnt how balls come off the first and second rail and how spin effects this, then you know how to hit that 8 ball from there without needing to know anything specific to this shot.

I use systems, but the systems I use apply to a shot type not to a shot. For example I use the mirror image system for one rail banks. It applies to any one rail bank on the table. Once I knew the system then I was able to adjust it. Now people say to me things like. "You not only make bank shots but you play position while your doing it." That is because this system can be applied to any one rail bank, so I've used it enough to learn how draw, follow, and english will effect it.

I really don't mean to sound grumpy or condemning although I just read what I wrote in my reply above and think I could have worded it differently. I'm just trying to help.

 

[Eric.]

Eric,
I believe you are correct. I corresponded a little with him; and I feel confident that he was just a friend of Jim Rempe's.

Of course this is the internet, and identity is always a gray area. Who would have suspected that breakup was really Charles Manson??? We need to be careful.

Joe Rushinski has played in a local Open tourney and plays well enough to have that knowledge of kicking. I believe Deadaim also mentioned his name is Joe and he is a friend of Rempe's, but like you said, it's a gray area.

Reagrding Breakup, WillieB, just be happy you're not some Hollywood starlet...


Eric

 

[Cornerman]

I've gone through about half of what DeadAim posted and most of it seems solid, it's just this one 2 rail system that has me stumped.

I'm late on this, and I don't know if I have an answer to you. However, the system for the 2-railer that I know uses the pocket center as "1" (or is it zero?) Your diagram shown makes a 1 or less than 1 impossible without reverse. It's different enough from DeadAim's Diagram 1, which is a 1 1/2 diamond difference. There's room to shoot at the 1 1/2 spot on the rail. [edit: just noticed that DeadAim was explicit in this: the lower limit is indeed 1 1/2 diamonds] There's a corresponding 1 1/2 diamond spot on the wall, I guess.

Change the position of the balls to what he has as Diagram 1, and the shot becomes possible with his method or (Dr. Cue's, Nick Varner's, Bob Byrne's) method.

That is to say, I think Eric. was right.

Thanks Tracy, I take it you shot the shot as described with out extra english? The closest I've come is still a diamond away.

LOL!!! I should have come in on this thread earlier. It all makes sense. The closest you can get should be a 1 1/2 diamond shot (according to both DeadAim and probably every other double-the-corner system). And you've drawn a 1/2 diamond shot!!!

This should help.

Fred

 

[DaveK]

Dave,
I think you may have made a typographical error. Are you sure you didn't mean, "Drinking more shots is good for your game"???? I thought you were from the Great White North? Only a hoser plays sober...Eh?

Take off, eh ! I ain't no hoser ! And I know lots of shots that help my game .... but no vermouth .... I hate vermouth.

Dave

 

[DaveK]

<some good thinking edited out>

I really don't mean to sound grumpy or condemning although I just read what I wrote in my reply above and think I could have worded it differently. I'm just trying to help.

Not to worry there Captain. As the one who suggested you are nearly as grumpy as I am, I must admit to being mistaken myself ... there's no way a real grumpster like myself would appolgize

Dave

 

[DaveK]

OK, so here's the problem ... DeadAim describes several other 2-rail kicks in parts 3, 4, and 5. Some of these were familiar to me after reading various billiards and pool materials, but the shot that SGM is describing, the one that is linked above, seems different. This shot seems to be narrower, which is what makes it special. I read the limitation to be in terms of the starting point of the cueball, not the difference between the cb and ob.

Is Joe still around ? I see that DeadAim is no longer very active. His input might be invaluable.

Dave, loves to kick and just set a personal record of 3 consecutive posts in 1 thread ! Time to celebrate

 

[supergreenman]

OK, so here's the problem ... DeadAim describes several other 2-rail kicks in parts 3, 4, and 5. Some of these were familiar to me after reading various billiards and pool materials, but the shot that SGM is describing, the one that is linked above, seems different. This shot seems to be narrower, which is what makes it special. I read the limitation to be in terms of the starting point of the cueball, not the difference between the cb and ob.

Is Joe still around ? I see that DeadAim is no longer very active. His input might be invaluable.

Dave, loves to kick and just set a personal record of 3 consecutive posts in 1 thread ! Time to celebrate

I read the limitation to be the final rail destination ie. contact with the OB. That could be where I'm going wrong.

 

[supergreenman]

Dave,
I think you may have made a typographical error. Are you sure you didn't mean, "Drinking more shots is good for your game"???? I thought you were from the Great White North? Only a hoser plays sober...Eh?

I fear Betmore dude you have fallen victem to a well oiled Canadian Propaganda machine intended to lead people from other countries (especially our southern friends) to underestimate us Canucks.

 

[RSB-Refugee]

I'm sorry to have posted bad information, as to DeadAim's identity. It was an honest mistake.
Here is the original text from the post.

"Diagram 1 shows the billiard system to make impossible hits. It has a limitation of 2 ½ diamonds. Just draw a line from the hit point through the corner pocket, find a spot on the wall about 6 –9 feet away, go back to the cue ball and aim at that spot on the wall. You have to hit the cue ball with maximum high english and EXTEMELY hard. DO NOT play this shot by “feel” because it simply “looks” like you will NEVER hit your target, just aim at your spot on the wall."

I think the shot in SGM's diagram, is possible according to the "1 1/2 diamonds" limitation. I'll check it out the next time I get to a table, which is not often, since I started working afternoons.

Tracy

 

[Bob Jewett]

... "Diagram 1 shows the billiard system to make impossible hits. It has a limitation of 2 ½ diamonds. Just draw a line from the hit point through the corner pocket, find a spot on the wall about 6 –9 feet away, go back to the cue ball and aim at that spot on the wall. You have to hit the cue ball with maximum high english and EXTEMELY hard. DO NOT play this shot by “feel” because it simply “looks” like you will NEVER hit your target, just aim at your spot on the wall."...

I tried the shot last night. It has no hope to work without reverse on the table I tried it on, which I would describe as used Simonis in good condition. The "extremely hard" part of course is not possible as the ball leaves the table for the shot illustrated. Well, it didn't leave the table on my hardest shot, but it did end up going parallel to the second cushion which is opposite to the goal we're working towards.

 

[GADawg]

I tried the shot last night. It has no hope to work without reverse on the table I tried it on, which I would describe as used Simonis in good condition. The "extremely hard" part of course is not possible as the ball leaves the table for the shot illustrated. Well, it didn't leave the table on my hardest shot, but it did end up going parallel to the second cushion which is opposite to the goal we're working towards.

I tried also last night and was not able to even get close in about 30 tries.

 

[ironhead_79]

This and similar systems assume that the line after two cushions is parallel to the line into the first cushion. That's usually a bad assumption. As noted you can fix the system with english, but you're better off with some other system, if possible. A systematic way to test two cushion kicks is in the July 2004 article in http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/BD_articles.html which uses a "double mirror" to place the reflected ideal target in the right place so you don't have to do any visualization.

many thanks bob, i'll be reading this for awhile. rep points for you!