2007 - Tour Card Qualifier

winner said:
Well I am interested in trying to qualify.

On their website

http://internationalpooltour.com/ipt_content/event_qualifiers/na_06_open_default.asp

it says "There will be 100 qualifying tournaments worldwide for entry into the IPT 2007 Tour Card Tournament to be held at the Wynn in Las Vegas"

What does that mean??

So I have to win the qualifier and then win again in vegas??
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I believe you have to qualify for one of the 100 spots available for the 150 person Vegas tourney and then the top 50 from that tourney get their cards. The tourney will, I believe, will be held around the same time as the KOH tourney.

That being said, this is just from what I've read in the past so I may be either remembering wrong or misinterpreted what was actually to happen.
 
mm, or this tournament will contain 250 players (Quite a big tournament) or the bottom 50 from the '06 money list have to qualify for this tournament as well in one of these qualifier qualify tournaments (then 200 players)
 
Some more details to clarify...

There will be 100 qualifier events held around the world. Probably a dozen entries for each, costing US$2,000 to enter. The top 2 of each of these qualifier events wins an expenses paid trip to the final (hotel expenses at least).

There they will join the tour members who didn't make the top 100 rankings. Probably 50ish, though 75 may actually get eliminated by some won't turn up.

This field of approximately 250 will play off to find the best 50 players. Those 50 players become 2007 IPT members, which guarantees them US$100,000 in earnings for the season. Though of course they could win a lot more if they do well in a few of the 10-11 (?) events scheduled for 2007.

Colin
 
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It is going to be interesting to see how they handle the numbers in vegas since there will most likely be an odd number turn up, probably more than the 250 they predicted.

Will be interesting to see how many players turn up for first few qualifiers and theyve put this together at pretty short notice, amazing really.

Can't wait to see all the dates.
 
TheOne said:
It is going to be interesting to see how they handle the numbers in vegas since there will most likely be an odd number turn up, ...
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The odd number itself is pretty easy to take care of with a round robin format if you have 5 or 6 per group in the first stage. More problematic is getting 50 winners from the final round because you need to take either 2 or 5 from each final round robin. One possibility is:

1. 5 players, 50 groups, take 3 -- 150 to advance

2. 25 groups of 6, 2 advance to make the 50 tour card holders.

With about 40 tables, the first round takes 3 days and the second round 2 days for a 5-day tournament.
 
I think they should have groups of 8 or 10, playing races to 4 perhaps.

With 5 of the 8 or 6 of the 10 going through. That way a deserving player is less likely to miss out due to getting in a tough group and perhaps losing a couple of close matches. Also, if win/loss % comes into it, having more matches reduces the very high penalty that a slightly lower win/loss% gives.

Also, would be good if they could do it over 3 days. Say 250 down to 150. 150 down to 85. 85 down to the final 50. Or something close to that.

Whenever there are groups of 6 with just 2 going through, some especially tough groups eliminate deserving players.
 
Suggestion

Colin Colenso said:
I think they should have groups of 8 or 10, playing races to 4 perhaps.

With 5 of the 8 or 6 of the 10 going through. That way a deserving player is less likely to miss out due to getting in a tough group and perhaps losing a couple of close matches. Also, if win/loss % comes into it, having more matches reduces the very high penalty that a slightly lower win/loss% gives.

Also, would be good if they could do it over 3 days. Say 250 down to 150. 150 down to 85. 85 down to the final 50. Or something close to that.

Whenever there are groups of 6 with just 2 going through, some especially tough groups eliminate deserving players.
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I kind of like Colin's suggestion except:
1) 50 groups of 5 (250) - take top 3
2) 30 groups of 5 (150) - take top 3
3) 15 groups of 6 (90) - take top 3 = 45 plus next 5 top winning % = 50.
 
Colin Colenso said:
I think they should have groups of 8 or 10, playing races to 4 perhaps.

With 5 of the 8 or 6 of the 10 going through. ...
Click to expand...
The problem with short races is match overhead -- getting players to the tables and warming up. Remember that usually all matches must finish for the next round to start.

Advancing 3 of 5 from the first groups gives a very reasonable chance to all.

25 groups of 10 would be 1125 matches. If you want to do that in 1 day you need 200 tables, or 160 if you rush. Far more likely you are looking at 75 tables over 3 days for just that round.

Bottom line: big groups take too long.

The other problem with big groups is that there are lots of useless matches in the final two sets of matches. With smaller groups there are fewer don't-cares.
 
Bob Jewett said:
The problem with short races is match overhead -- getting players to the tables and warming up. Remember that usually all matches must finish for the next round to start.

Advancing 3 of 5 from the first groups gives a very reasonable chance to all.

25 groups of 10 would be 1125 matches. If you want to do that in 1 day you need 200 tables, or 160 if you rush. Far more likely you are looking at 75 tables over 3 days for just that round.

Bottom line: big groups take too long.

The other problem with big groups is that there are lots of useless matches in the final two sets of matches. With smaller groups there are fewer don't-cares.
Click to expand...

Good points Bob,
But one way that we used to get around this was to give each group 2 or 3 tables and have them play continuously. Players have the responsibility to know when their next matches are due to come up.

That way, tables aren't empty 30% of the time like they are in the current format. When some groups finish earlier, other groups can move onto their tables.

I know I'd rather play 9 races to 3 than 4 races to 8 if I thought I was a better player.

A big problem with a round robin like this is a lack of disincentive for players trying their hardest once they are out of the running. This is especially true with larger groups and when a smaller percentage of the players go through.

As always, pros and cons to any system.

Colin
 
100 qualifiers......doubtful

winner said:
Well I am interested in trying to qualify.

On their website

http://internationalpooltour.com/ipt_content/event_qualifiers/na_06_open_default.asp

it says "There will be 100 qualifying tournaments worldwide for entry into the IPT 2007 Tour Card Tournament to be held at the Wynn in Las Vegas"

What does that mean??

So I have to win the qualifier and then win again in vegas??
Click to expand...

Don't believe everything you read about the IPT. I sincerely doubt they will be able to make 100 qualifiers around the World.....unless 3 players make it to each qualifier.....then, maybe.....
 
Dr. Dissent said:
Don't believe everything you read about the IPT. I sincerely doubt they will be able to make 100 qualifiers around the World.....unless 3 players make it to each qualifier.....then, maybe.....
Click to expand...

Well it looks like its happening, I wouldnt be suprised if they pull this off. Although I would be suprised if they average more than 10 runners at each qualifier, but still some acheivement.
 
Its pathetic.
They make an announcement that is deliberatly vague and misleading. Anyone reading that would think the final tourny consists of only 200 qualifiers! As Colin points out, you could have another 70 players 'inserted' into the main Q tourny.
Once again the total lack of details from the IPT dissapoints and just encourages suspicion.

For a guy who doesn't need the money- he is extremely active in the Q tournys buisness and bringing in cash- from pool players I might add.

He says WE are not his target audience but we are his definately target for cash!

KT promised that he would pay out after every round but at the very first tourny, he changed his mind. What if he changes his mind aout the $100,000 guarantee?

Are players going to have to beg KT to make good on his 'promise'- the 'gift' he has promised?

Lots of questions, no answers.

Is it so wrong to ask questions?

Gabber
Pretty soon we will have the IPT $5 pre,pre,pre,pre,pre Q tourny.:eek: :D
 
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Dr. Dissent said:
Don't believe everything you read about the IPT. I sincerely doubt they will be able to make 100 qualifiers around the World.....unless 3 players make it to each qualifier.....then, maybe.....
Click to expand...


Ha ha ha You sure are the eternal pessimist.

What is truly amazing is how the IPT is managing to line up the pool rooms and schedule all the qualifiers and all the main tournaments and they all come off without a hitch. There are threads where people have all sorts of problems with a simple tournament with only 17 people. Yet, I have heard of no complaints for any of the tournaments run by the IPT.

Yep, truly amazing.

Who is the genius doing all this work?

Surely Deno can't do it all by himself.

I imagine he has a team behind him like in the Verizon commercial.


Jake
 
Yeah ,,,,

do the disenters even realize that 'projects' take lots of planning and preparation, and that doing things on a computer is not INSTANT. Sheesh, their total lack of consideration for the sheer mechanics involved in carrying out the IPT goals makes me wonder what type of Pool players they are .... lol

I thought their website coverage of the NA 8 ball was pretty good, and pretty user friendly, not that it can not be improved upon, but they get a B+ or A- for a first major tour event.
 
Gee, it seems that so far they have been able to run 60 qualifiers without a PROBLEM. At least none that weren't immediatley addressed. And if the players line up to play in the qualifiers WHO CARES!

Let's see, next year the players who are TOUR CARD holders are guaranteed how much? Somebody? 13,000? 28,000? I have no idea how much they are GUARANTEED for NEVER winning a match but it is definitely well more than $2000. Plus there is the nebulous $100,000 guarantee. This is definitley worth shooting for all by itself.

Let's not forget however that the total prize money the players in these qualifiers are shooting for is something like 13,000,000 (thirteen MILLION) Dr. Dissent and Gabber. Let's try that again, 13 Million Dollars in prize money. Is that worth it for a player of any decent quality to shoot for? I'd say so. Maybe you two feel like Kevin should just give every pool player on the planet money for just being a pool player. Fortunately for us fans he makes them EARN the shot at getting the money so that WE get to see the BEST OF THE BEST at the final table of every IPT event.

No handpicked political BS. Just the best sir. If you can't cut it on tour then you ain't playing and that's that. Finally being a professional pool player will mean something and will be something to strive for and be proud of.

Maybe we'll see pool schools like you see tennis camps and diving camps and baseball camps and golf camps where youngsters are encouraged to follow their dream. Maybe the kids of tomorrow won't have to GAMBLE to hone their skills. Maybe the general level of pool players will increase to feed the pro tour.

I once paid $3000 to attend a diving camp at Mission Viejo training facility in Florida. This is where many olympic divers trained. The two weeks I spent there paid far more dividends than the 3 dimes ever cost me. If I were a slightly better player I wouldn't think anything of spending $2000 to try and become an IPT pro.

If the IPT succeeds - and I hope it does, then the next generation of players is going to really reap the rewards.

Is the IPT going to be switching things around during the next years? Sure. It's a growth process. Is the PGA ran just like it was when it was formed? No. Are the rules, requirements, and rewards the same? Of course not.

You guys can nitpick all you want. It won't change anything. Ten years from now you'll still be finding things to ***** about the IPT and "prove" it's evil.

Here is the BOTTOM LINE. The IPT is a professional tour for professional players. The WPA is a Non-Profit Organization for amateur players. The WPA has done very little to increase the job security and raise the median income for professional players during the course of it's existence. The WPA has done a lot to promote the growth of amateur pool throughout the world which has led to an influx of players capable of playing professionally. This does not entitle the WPA to any part of the profits enjoyed by a professional tour nor a tithe by the professionals on that tour. The WPA gets it's money from the organizations under it which get money from their subordinates which get their money from THE PLAYERS.

Yes, Thorsten Hohmann is a product of organized play. But that system was in place BEFORE the WPA existed and Thorsten PAID for the PRIVILEGE to participate in it. If the WPA wanted to OWN him then they should have provided a platform for him to EARN a living. Right before Thorsten won the World Championship (Put on and funded by MATCHROOM) in 2003 he was ready to QUIT. Why would such a fine player and "product" of the WPA system be ready to quit pool? Because there was little opportunity for him to earn a living at the sport he loved without great expense.

Now at least the opportunity is FAR greater than the expense. $2000 per qualifier for a chance at a share of 13 million is far more rewarding than any other tournament series to date. Not to mention the $100,000 guarantee for being a card holder. I guarantee you that if Kevin pays off on that promise then there will be thousands of players vying for the IPT each year. AND that my friends is the way it should be.

If that happens everything will be better. Local tournaments will pay out several thousand. Journeyman semi-pros will be able to earn a hundred thousand a year without having to hustle around. More pool cues, tables, cloth, soda pop, table time, lessons, books, videos and so on will be sold.

Bet on it!

John

John
 
onepocketchump said:
Gee, it seems that so far they have been able to run 60 qualifiers without a PROBLEM. At least none that weren't immediatley addressed. And if the players line up to play in the qualifiers WHO CARES!

Let's see, next year the players who are TOUR CARD holders are guaranteed how much? Somebody? 13,000? 28,000? I have no idea how much they are GUARANTEED for NEVER winning a match but it is definitely well more than $2000. Plus there is the nebulous $100,000 guarantee. This is definitley worth shooting for all by itself.

Let's not forget however that the total prize money the players in these qualifiers are shooting for is something like 13,000,000 (thirteen MILLION) Dr. Dissent and Gabber. Let's try that again, 13 Million Dollars in prize money. Is that worth it for a player of any decent quality to shoot for? I'd say so. Maybe you two feel like Kevin should just give every pool player on the planet money for just being a pool player. Fortunately for us fans he makes them EARN the shot at getting the money so that WE get to see the BEST OF THE BEST at the final table of every IPT event.

No handpicked political BS. Just the best sir. If you can't cut it on tour then you ain't playing and that's that. Finally being a professional pool player will mean something and will be something to strive for and be proud of.

Maybe we'll see pool schools like you see tennis camps and diving camps and baseball camps and golf camps where youngsters are encouraged to follow their dream. Maybe the kids of tomorrow won't have to GAMBLE to hone their skills. Maybe the general level of pool players will increase to feed the pro tour.

I once paid $3000 to attend a diving camp at Mission Viejo training facility in Florida. This is where many olympic divers trained. The two weeks I spent there paid far more dividends than the 3 dimes ever cost me. If I were a slightly better player I wouldn't think anything of spending $2000 to try and become an IPT pro.

If the IPT succeeds - and I hope it does, then the next generation of players is going to really reap the rewards.

Is the IPT going to be switching things around during the next years? Sure. It's a growth process. Is the PGA ran just like it was when it was formed? No. Are the rules, requirements, and rewards the same? Of course not.

You guys can nitpick all you want. It won't change anything. Ten years from now you'll still be finding things to ***** about the IPT and "prove" it's evil.

Here is the BOTTOM LINE. The IPT is a professional tour for professional players. The WPA is a Non-Profit Organization for amateur players. The WPA has done very little to increase the job security and raise the median income for professional players during the course of it's existence. The WPA has done a lot to promote the growth of amateur pool throughout the world which has led to an influx of players capable of playing professionally. This does not entitle the WPA to any part of the profits enjoyed by a professional tour nor a tithe by the professionals on that tour. The WPA gets it's money from the organizations under it which get money from their subordinates which get their money from THE PLAYERS.

Yes, Thorsten Hohmann is a product of organized play. But that system was in place BEFORE the WPA existed and Thorsten PAID for the PRIVILEGE to participate in it. If the WPA wanted to OWN him then they should have provided a platform for him to EARN a living. Right before Thorsten won the World Championship (Put on and funded by MATCHROOM) in 2003 he was ready to QUIT. Why would such a fine player and "product" of the WPA system be ready to quit pool? Because there was little opportunity for him to earn a living at the sport he loved without great expense.

Now at least the opportunity is FAR greater than the expense. $2000 per qualifier for a chance at a share of 13 million is far more rewarding than any other tournament series to date. Not to mention the $100,000 guarantee for being a card holder. I guarantee you that if Kevin pays off on that promise then there will be thousands of players vying for the IPT each year. AND that my friends is the way it should be.

If that happens everything will be better. Local tournaments will pay out several thousand. Journeyman semi-pros will be able to earn a hundred thousand a year without having to hustle around. More pool cues, tables, cloth, soda pop, table time, lessons, books, videos and so on will be sold.

Bet on it!

John

John
Click to expand...

John, you are giving KT too much credit for something that will blow up in everyone's faces. I doubt the IPT will have the success you are dreaming of. The IPT will not survive 5 years at the current pace, probably not even 3 years.

Now, if I give them just a slight benefit of the doubt, they could probably survive until the end of 2007 but I don't see it happening in 2008.

Kevin must be "crazy" to be putting about $10 million this year to the IPT. Nobody in their right mind could be spending that much money without receiving something in return. He could probably do that for a year, maybe 2, but he cannot keep that pace for 10 years. My opinion is that he will somehow find a way to "get out of this mess."

Next generation players reaping the rewards of the IPT?
Pool schools like tennis, diving, and baseball camps?

Are you serious?

If you are, please go see your doctor....
 
Dr. Dissent said:
John, you are giving KT too much credit for something that will blow up in everyone's faces. I doubt the IPT will have the success you are dreaming of. The IPT will not survive 5 years at the current pace, probably not even 3 years.

Now, if I give them just a slight benefit of the doubt, they could probably survive until the end of 2007 but I don't see it happening in 2008.

Kevin must be "crazy" to be putting about $10 million this year to the IPT. Nobody in their right mind could be spending that much money without receiving something in return. He could probably do that for a year, maybe 2, but he cannot keep that pace for 10 years. My opinion is that he will somehow find a way to "get out of this mess."

Next generation players reaping the rewards of the IPT?
Pool schools like tennis, diving, and baseball camps?

Are you serious?

If you are, please go see your doctor....
Click to expand...


Oh, so you have the inside scoop on Kevin Trudeau's finances? You know what kinds of deals he has in place or is working on? Listen Miss Cleo if you are so damn psychic why don't you predict something useful like a winning lottery number and start your own tour? Otherwise I'd suggest you get some good drugs to brighten your world cuz you are a major downer.

If the WPA and BCA has done so much for pool where are the jumior programs? Any that exist are not in place because of the WPA/BCA they are there because of INDIVIDUALS who care enough to run them. Just as there is ONE INDIVIDUAL who cares enough to run a professional pool tour with some SUBSTANCE to it.

Since you won't post here with you real name and your qualifications to make your statements I have to conclude that most of what you say is purely ignorant conjecture.

I, on the other hand, spent ten years in Europe playing in the Deutsche Billard Union, The European Pool and Billiard Federation, the Deutsche Sport-Automaten Bund (Lowen-Sport/Valley) and the local leagues under them. Over here I participated in the BCA, VNEA, and APA leagues.

I am familiar with the way the WPA works and all the organizations under them. If anything, (and oh how I despise this term) the WPA could be the "governing body" of amateur pool. Except for one little thing - the APA, the BCA, and the VNEA don't play along, use different rules and don't pay any sanctioning fees to the WPA.

Please correct me if I am wrong but has the WPA ever received one cent from any of the APA, VNEA, or even the BCA National/International tournaments in Vegas? I mean these are mulitmillion dollar events that have gone on longer than the WPA has been in existence? Has the WPA received any funding from them or had any input whatsoever into how these events are ran? If not, why not? Why are they any different than Kevin Trudeau? After all these organizations affect far more pool players than Kevin Trudeau. Why aren't you worried about the detrimental effect of forcing hundreds of thousands of players to play bar box 8-ball instead of creating a platform for them to be exposed to 9-ball, 14.1 and 8 ball like Thorsten was?

Never in previous years have I ever heard you or anyone like you being down on the WPA for not forcing a world standard of competition. NEver, not once, not ever did you jump up and say the APA is ruining pool.

The truth is that you are an ignorant whiny crybaby who doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. You probably can't run three friggin' balls as the esteemed Crazy Larry would say. NOw this is just my opinon of course not knowing who you are and just going by the content of your posts. You could be the most reasonable patient in your asylum for all I know.

John
 
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