2024 World 8 Ball Championship (2-8 Sep), New Zealand , Winner $75K

[sjm]

Personally, I give every single player a pass here. Pool politics have placed them all in a compromising position and there are conflicts of interest all over the place.

Let's not expect the professional pool players to be professional politicians, too. All they want is the opportunity to maximize the income they can earn in the sport to which they have dedicated their lives.

It is sad that all these wonderful professional players have to wade through the dirty waters that pool politics have left for them, but every single one of them has my support.

 

[MattPoland]

Just to contrast Stu.

 

[jokrswylde]

Personally, I give every single player a pass here. Pool politics have placed them all in a compromising position and there are conflicts of interest all over the place.

Let's not expect the professional pool players to be professional politicians, too. All they want is the opportunity to maximize the income they can earn in the sport to which they have dedicated their lives.

It is sad that all these wonderful professional players have to wade through the dirty waters that pool politics have left for them, but every single one of them has my support.

I don't know enough to take any sides (not that it would make one ounce of difference anyway).

What I do know is that pro pool players aren't special. EVERY SINGLE PROFESSION has its own pitfalls of politics, nepotism, favoritism, etc. that must be navigated.

At the end of the day, all we have is our integrity and our word. Some put a higher price on those two things than others.

 

[sjm]

I don't know enough to take any sides (not that it would make one ounce of difference anyway).

What I do know is that pro pool players aren't special. EVERY SINGLE PROFESSION has its own pitfalls of politics, nepotism, favoritism, etc. that must be navigated.

At the end of the day, all we have is our integrity and our word. Some put a higher price on those two things than others.

Well-reasoned and well said. Nice post.

 

[MattPoland]

I figure Filler has earned a little mockery because he did go to social media to announce he was standing together with the Asian players that were banned. It’s pretty clear he posted that with no thought given to its meaning. Then his rationale he shared on social media for going back on his word was a parade of self serving excuses without owning up to the mistake or really showing those banned Asian players deference. I can appreciate he is generational talent and really just a kid. It’ll pass. But the moment is still now and he’s just got to take it on the chin. This is the life of a prominent athlete living in the spotlight. It comes with the autographs. And really be prepared for what’s coming his way at the Mosconi Cup because they certainly aren’t going to let him forget it just yet.

 

[mjantti]

Any insight how these player related events work towards Mosconi Cup tension build up?

 

[sjm]

Any insight how these player related events work towards Mosconi Cup tension build up?

In my opinion, not at all. Fans don't really care about this sort of thing and in a Europe vs USA match, solidarity with Asia has little to do with the surrounding vibe.

 

[sjm]

In my tirade after the WPA edicts of Qatar last October, (https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/sjm-–-my-thoughts-on-wpa’s-actions.557872/ I concluded with this:

Finally, I’d like to make a request of my AZB brethren. Let’s not ever view any players as defectors or traitors, for whatever choices they make, they remain victims denied a chance to maximize earnings in their chosen profession.

Yes, the players are victims here, pawns in a shell game being played by others. Lest we forget. I'm not happy to see players being lambasted for struggling with or mishandling the politics that have resulted from the holy wars in our sport.

I think the fans should rally behind the players as they navigate these difficult waters, but this thread concerns me, as it offers evidence that some fans are not inclined to do so.

 

[mjantti]

In my opinion, not at all. Fans don't really care about this sort of thing and in a Europe vs USA match, solidarity with Asia has little to do with the surrounding vibe.

I mean the American audience has never really liked Filler and now even less whereas Fedor has risen to a crowd favourite.

 

[sjm]

I mean the American audience has never really liked Filler and now even less whereas Fedor has risen to a crowd favourite.

Yes, the traditional us vs them will be in play, and the American fan seems to single out Shaw and Filler, Europe's two most animated and vocal players, when it comes to booing at the Mosconi.

You are right about Fedor. Fedor was proclaimed "American" by Matchroom by virtue of permanent residency, and American fans like him a) for the resilience he has shown in rebuilding his life after the Russian invasion of Ukraine, b) for his undeniable greatness as a player, and also for c) how he conducts himself in the arena of play. As long as Fedor lives in America, he will be beloved among American fans.

 

[The_JV]

Look how well professional pool on the global level is doing. Even AZB has nothing better to complain about than players making smart financial decisions.

Getting more and more like a real sport everyday

 

[Badpenguin]

Would it kill them to post a link to the actual freaking bracket? Is it just me, or is not linking to an actual bracket a fundamental screw-up?

Here is the link to stage 1.

And what I am assuming will be the final stage.

 

[Badpenguin]

It is my understanding that it is the ACBS that is actually banning players, not WPA. Does WPA even have a choice in the matter?

These players posted that they would boycott 4 months worth of WPA sanctioned events, not much of a moral stand really. By boycotting, it is really Predator that is getting hurt, not the WPA and/or ACBS. Why penalize Predator, after putting millions into these tours?

It is really Predator that needs to put the ACBS in their place, not players. If no tours are held in Asia, ACBS doesn't really have a leg to stand on, unless some other serious sponsor steps up to the plate.

My question is, is the current ACBS the same people as the APBU that got banned? There needs to be some rules that remove individuals permanently from serving on these governing bodies, and maybe even regions, for repeatedly harming/disrupting the sport. If there are not already rules.

 

[skogstokig]

i watched a little, alex is doing quite well. would be fun if he won another title. darren is playing with glasses, he is doing OK but seems stubborn with that second ball break. i think the racker more than the table determines what break to use.

there are some slugs, but it's been that way every year since they revived this event. i actually think it makes it better, in lieu of other break restrictions.

 

[atlas333]

He did not blame peer pressure, and you may not have used it as an excuse since you were a kid, but only a fool would think peer pressure is not real and common, even among adults.

I belong to a union and we just went through acrimonious negotiations. The peer pressure was quite real as the union ramped up its (justified) hardball tactics, as it often is in the real world. Not everyone is immune to it as you.

Union ... Nuff said

 

[skogstokig]

It is really Predator that needs to put the ACBS in their place, not players. If no tours are held in Asia, ACBS doesn't really have a leg to stand on, unless some other serious sponsor steps up to the plate.

JOY / heyball is that leg they stand on, not predator. i don't think predator have much clout at all in asia, at least not in comparison to the heyball cash cow. check the WPA calendar..

 

[Atorontopoolplayer]

Yes, the traditional us vs them will be in play, and American fan seems to single out Shaw wand Filler, Europe's two most animated and vocal players, when it comes to booing at the Mosconi.

You are right about Fedor. Fedor was proclaimed "American" by Matchroom by virtue of permanent residency, and American fans like him a) for the resilience he has shown in rebuilding his life after the Russian invasion of Ukraine, b) for his undeniable greatness as a player, and also for how he conducts himself inn the arena of play. As long as Fedor lives in America, he will be beloved among American fans.

The Reyes cup could be interesting though, not sure how the Asian fans and players will take to filler/ albin?

 

[jbart65]

It is my understanding that it is the ACBS that is actually banning players, not WPA. Does WPA even have a choice in the matter?

These players posted that they would boycott 4 months worth of WPA sanctioned events, not much of a moral stand really. By boycotting, it is really Predator that is getting hurt, not the WPA and/or ACBS. Why penalize Predator, after putting millions into these tours?

It is really Predator that needs to put the ACBS in their place, not players. If no tours are held in Asia, ACBS doesn't really have a leg to stand on, unless some other serious sponsor steps up to the plate.

My question is, is the current ACBS the same people as the APBU that got banned? There needs to be some rules that remove individuals permanently from serving on these governing bodies, and maybe even regions, for repeatedly harming/disrupting the sport. If there are not already rules.

I've been trying to get my head around this stuff for the past year. I am still a bit unclear as to what is really going on.

What's interesting after re-reading SJM' post from last year on 'WPA edicts from Qatar' is that virtually every top 100 player in the world has joined the WNT tour.

I wouldn't say it's a complete rout and that MR has won, though. It still doesn't put on enough events to make it easy for most of those top 100 players to make a living at pro pool. Far from it. The Predator events add significant cash to the pile.

Ideally there would be more collaboration between the entities - mainly MR and Predator - on date scheduling. It would be best for the players and fans. We'd get to see more pool and players would get a chance to earn more money.

Not expecting it. MR is trying to build a professional league of sorts and it's obvious a rivalry between MR and Predator has developed.

That said, neither company is a financial powerhouse with very deep pockets. MR is much bigger than Predator, but as companies go, it's still pretty small. Hence the deal with Saudi Arabia and the company's excitement about growth prospects in Vietnam and Asia more generally (Reyes Cup).

For all the promise of MR, the future of pro pool is still quite uncertain ...

 

[spartan]

Would it kill them to post a link to the actual freaking bracket? Is it just me, or is not linking to an actual bracket a fundamental screw-up?

Here is the link to stage 1.

And what I am assuming will be the final stage.

It was posted before on post 56

2024 World 8 Ball Championship (2-8 Sep), New Zealand , Winner $75K

Weak field for a major event- only 14x800 (By comparison, Matchroom major these days has typically ~30x800. As expected many top 10 Fargo "boycotted" to protest against WPA ban 14x800 Alex Pagulayan Jung Lin Chang Kun Lin Wu Mario He Mieszko Fortunski Naoyuki Oi Sanjin Pehlivanovic Wojciech...

forums.azbilliards.com

Here are the linear brackets (match schedule style) which is easier to read on mobile that those big rhombic brackets
https://probilliardseries.com/event/new-zealand-2024/men-world-8-ball/matches/

It is my understanding that it is the ACBS that is actually banning players, not WPA. Does WPA even have a choice in the matter?

These players posted that they would boycott 4 months worth of WPA sanctioned events, not much of a moral stand really. By boycotting, it is really Predator that is getting hurt, not the WPA and/or ACBS. Why penalize Predator, after putting millions into these tours?

It is really Predator that needs to put the ACBS in their place, not players. If no tours are held in Asia, ACBS doesn't really have a leg to stand on, unless some other serious sponsor steps up to the plate.

My question is, is the current ACBS the same people as the APBU that got banned? There needs to be some rules that remove individuals permanently from serving on these governing bodies, and maybe even regions, for repeatedly harming/disrupting the sport. If there are not already rules.

It is a farce and a mess. So ACBS ban Asian players for participating in a non-WPA sanctioned event but the other members rest of world like EPBF, BCA do not ban their players. The laughing stock is inconsistent application across different regions -some players who play in the non-sanctioned event can continue to play in WPA events while others cannot.
WPA as the cartel leader could have rein in ACBS and tell ACBS to remove ban using the rationale that majority of member federations like EPBF BCA did not ban their players. Why is it not doing that? Maybe because WPA need ACBS now and did not want to upset the apple cart. Allegedly, APBU wanted to see financial records of WPA , WPA refused and instead replaced APBU with ACBS couple of years ago. Also the head of ACBS is also boss of wealthy Qatar billiards federation QBSF which organized World 9 Ball Championship for many years before Matchroom took over.

Any big organization whether it is organized drug cartels, charity organizations, religious organizations or sports organizations etc. will likely have some degree of dirty politics , power broking, corruption, malpractice, abuse under the hood. Heads of these organizations can stay on top cos they are “politicians” and play the game.
And you know what they say about politicians-If you are stuck on an island with a politician & a deadly snake and you have a gun with 6 bullets, who do you shoot?

 

[kling&allen]

It was posted before on post 56

2024 World 8 Ball Championship (2-8 Sep), New Zealand , Winner $75K

Weak field for a major event- only 14x800 (By comparison, Matchroom major these days has typically ~30x800. As expected many top 10 Fargo "boycotted" to protest against WPA ban 14x800 Alex Pagulayan Jung Lin Chang Kun Lin Wu Mario He Mieszko Fortunski Naoyuki Oi Sanjin Pehlivanovic Wojciech...

forums.azbilliards.com

Here are the linear brackets (match schedule style) which is easier to read on mobile that those big rhombic brackets
https://probilliardseries.com/event/new-zealand-2024/men-world-8-ball/matches/



It is a farce and a mess. So ACBS ban Asian players for participating in a non-WPA sanctioned event but the other members rest of world like EPBF, BCA do not ban their players. The laughing stock is inconsistent application across different regions -some players who play in the non-sanctioned event can continue to play in WPA events while others cannot.
WPA as the cartel leader could have rein in ACBS and tell ACBS to remove ban using the rationale that majority of member federations like EPBF BCA did not ban their players. Why is it not doing that? Maybe because WPA need ACBS now and did not want to upset the apple cart. Allegedly, APBU wanted to see financial records of WPA , WPA refused and instead replaced APBU with ACBS couple of years ago. Also the head of ACBS is also boss of wealthy Qatar billiards federation QBSF which organized World 9 Ball Championship for many years before Matchroom took over.

Any big organization whether it is organized drug cartels, charity organizations, religious organizations or sports organizations etc. will likely have some degree of dirty politics , power broking, corruption, malpractice, abuse under the hood. Heads of these organizations can stay on top cos they are “politicians” and play the game.
And you know what they say about politicians-If you are stuck on an island with a politician & a deadly snake and you have a gun with 6 bullets, who do you shoot?

In many ways this is like boxing, where the WBA and other letter organizations descended into a cycle of corruption and incompetence that ruined the sport and cleared the way for a marketing company (MMA) to take over.