2024 World 8 Ball Championship (2-8 Sep), New Zealand , Winner $75K

It is my understanding that it is the ACBS that is actually banning players, not WPA. Does WPA even have a choice in the matter?

These players posted that they would boycott 4 months worth of WPA sanctioned events, not much of a moral stand really. By boycotting, it is really Predator that is getting hurt, not the WPA and/or ACBS. Why penalize Predator, after putting millions into these tours?

It is really Predator that needs to put the ACBS in their place, not players. If no tours are held in Asia, ACBS doesn't really have a leg to stand on, unless some other serious sponsor steps up to the plate.

My question is, is the current ACBS the same people as the APBU that got banned? There needs to be some rules that remove individuals permanently from serving on these governing bodies, and maybe even regions, for repeatedly harming/disrupting the sport. If there are not already rules.

Here’s how I detailed it out to some folks on Reddit recently.

There’s some nuances to the bans. The WPA is comprised of member associations: ACBS (Asia), BCA (North America), EPBF (Europe), CPB (Latin America), OPBA (Oceania), and AAPA (Africa). Each continental member has a vote with the WPA.

When Matchroom announced they would stop sanctioning with the WPA, they started the divide where they sought to operate a commercial tour independent of Olympic-affiliated federations. That frees them to operate without having to deal with Olympic-affiliated bureaucracy like sanction fees, Olympic campaigns, political bans, inefficient drug testing agencies, etc. Matchroom has cut those ties in other sports successfully so it’s no surprise.

But Olympic-affiliation isn’t without some merits. In some countries you can get access to government funds for programs, events and participation in Olympic-affiliated sports. It happens all over the world where athletes get rewards for winning medals, cities pay money to help host an event, athletes get travel support, etc. The extent of that can vary and perhaps at times be exaggerated. But often there are rules where access to those funds are only permitted with Olympic-affiliation and not available for purely commercially organized sports.

Matchroom has achieved enough success to organize events without those perks and question the value of aligning with the WPA. But it is fair to say some of the athletes Matchroom is productizing were the products of that Olympic structure.

The WPA threatened bans to players participating in unsanctioned events, threatening to cut their ties to the perks of Olympic-affiliation including a series of events that equal or exceed the prize funds of Matchroom. A major blow to pro athletes potential income. Especially with Predator being aligned with the WPA and questions of what that means for sponsorship. And Matchroom gained major ground by getting the top 128 pros to sign with them and announce it.

But the WPA has made attempts to bring Matchroom back into the fold with some major concessions like free sanctioning and staying off their backs. It would be like letting a monarchy continue to exist and be willing to bend a knee and kiss the ring in ceremony only but allow the state to actually rule itself. It is a compromise but Matchroom just doesn’t see the necessity of it. And at the moment that is the stand-off they are in.

Meanwhile, remember those continental federations? Well the Asian one is very interesting because it’s new. The Asian federation used to be the APBU but they had some concerns with the WPA. They accused the WPA president of financial mismanagement. They harped on them to produce financial statements. They annoyed them so much, the WPA kicked them out. And turned to the ACBS, the Asian governing body for snooker and carom with no ties to pool, and had them join as the governing body for pool in 2022. Some of the old APBU leaders (like from Qatar) assumed leadership roles in the ACBS.

Keep in mind under the WPA, each continental federation is allowed to make its own policies and rulings in its continent and in terms of players from its continent playing worldwide. So the Asian federation can ban its own players and the other federations must respect it. Or if international players play an unsanctioned event in Asia, the ACBS can ban them and the other federations must uphold that. It’s like a “your territory, your rules, and everyone else honors that”.

One year in, the ACBS bans all Singapore athletes (carom, pool and snooker) because a city in Singapore hosted an unsanctioned Carom world championship. Kind of sad Singapore pool players like Yapp was banned from playing pool based on something unrelated to pool. That ban lapses and everyone moves on.

Later Matchroom realizes Vietnam is a hotbed for pool based on their market analysis and schedules the Hanoi Open. They get help from Hanoi for hosting the event. Hanoi’s sports authority approves the use of funds at the behest of a local pool federation that is not Olympic-affiliated (not a member of the ACBS). The ACBS wants to be the only authority able to make those arrangements. They threaten legal action against the parties involved. They threaten bans from any Asian players that participate. Many Asian players pull out.

Later on more events are hosted in Asia and ACBS bans them too. The Hanoi Open comes up and Matchroom again secures support from the cities sports authority. New legal maneuvers come up. And this time the ACBS bans every athlete from Vietnam (pool, snooker and carom). This is the ban all the pros are protesting. When the pros announced standing together, they are talking about this.

And looking ahead, the WPA was willing to treat all Matchroom events as sanctioned except the Hanoi Open because the ACBS wouldn’t have it. So upcoming when that event occurs, it’ll be the new test for whether the WPA will uphold their ban threats.

So the question is what happens next. Does the other continental members continue to support the autonomy of the ACBS? Do they kick them out and bring in a new member like the APF? Do they overrule the ACBS? Do they enforce worldwide bans? And keep in mind some continental members are not in support of what’s happening, e.g. the BCA because the policy of the US government is to not directly provide financial support to sports (Olympic-affiliated or not) so it’s an easy choice. But other continental members do have that luxury and that is at stake.
 
Jeez, some of y'all are harsh. Just because a dude has an 800 Fargo means he's not allowed to fuck up? Ever??

Agree. Harsh. :ROFLMAO:
I look at it this way.
The 8 (I could be wrong but have only counted 8- Gorst,FSR, SVB, Shaw, Alcaide, Kaci, Filler, Albin) who signed the boycott statement are doing something "charitable" to support Asian players. They are doing it pro bono. Whether it is altruistic or not is less important cos they still put out the boycott statement spoke up against the WPA authority. They don't have to do it just like other 100+WNT Pro players who did not do it.
I don't think it warrants the bashing Filler is now getting in social media. Why aren't they going after the 100+ WNT Pros who did not sign the boycott statement?
Anytime someone does something pro bono, we have to give him some leeway benefit of the doubt and let it go.
 
Filler's statement had an important part. He said the just-announced Predator events are not WPA sanctioned. If that is true, that would be a nice change, IMO. That would make them independent, and any player in the world could participate, regardless if they are banned by WPA.
 
Why doesn't his statement make him look good? He stated the facts and outlined his decision making at the time. I think it is quite rational what he did, but then again everyone has their own opinion.

Filler couldn't have said it any better:
I’m glad everyone out there knows better about my decisions, thoughts and contracts than myself!

Anyway, I still want someone to explain why it's okay to play the US Open, which is a WPA sanctioned Matchroom Event and NOT to play in the World 8 ball championship which is a WPA sanctioned Predator event. Talk about hypocrisy.

IMHO, The 8 players should have just excluded the sentence "we will not participate in any event sanctioned by the WPA for the remainder of 2024 unless these bans are lifted." in their statement. Show their disagreement to the ban but no need to boycott. Unless they can get 100+ WNT Pros to sign the statement, then they boycott. Also the boycott is only for rest of 2024 , if ban not lifted, they still go back to play WPA events in 2025 :LOL:
 
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So the question is what happens next. Does the other continental members continue to support the autonomy of the ACBS? Do they kick them out and bring in a new member like the APF? Do they overrule the ACBS? Do they enforce worldwide bans? And keep in mind some continental members are not in support of what’s happening, e.g. the BCA because the policy of the US government is to not directly provide financial support to sports (Olympic-affiliated or not) so it’s an easy choice. But other continental members do have that luxury and that is at stake.

knowing the WPA brass' love for greenbacks i seriously doubt it. the sanction fees collected for the heyball tour events is worth a lot. if anything they're going in the other direction, making EPBF add heyball to their calendar..

ideally the american version of pool should be the only priority for a pool governing body.
 
Here’s how I detailed it out to some folks on Reddit recently.

There’s some nuances to the bans. The WPA is comprised of member associations: ACBS (Asia), BCA (North America), EPBF (Europe), CPB (Latin America), OPBA (Oceania), and AAPA (Africa). Each continental member has a vote with the WPA.

When Matchroom announced they would stop sanctioning with the WPA, they started the divide where they sought to operate a commercial tour independent of Olympic-affiliated federations. That frees them to operate without having to deal with Olympic-affiliated bureaucracy like sanction fees, Olympic campaigns, political bans, inefficient drug testing agencies, etc. Matchroom has cut those ties in other sports successfully so it’s no surprise.

But Olympic-affiliation isn’t without some merits. In some countries you can get access to government funds for programs, events and participation in Olympic-affiliated sports. It happens all over the world where athletes get rewards for winning medals, cities pay money to help host an event, athletes get travel support, etc. The extent of that can vary and perhaps at times be exaggerated. But often there are rules where access to those funds are only permitted with Olympic-affiliation and not available for purely commercially organized sports.

Matchroom has achieved enough success to organize events without those perks and question the value of aligning with the WPA. But it is fair to say some of the athletes Matchroom is productizing were the products of that Olympic structure.

The WPA threatened bans to players participating in unsanctioned events, threatening to cut their ties to the perks of Olympic-affiliation including a series of events that equal or exceed the prize funds of Matchroom. A major blow to pro athletes potential income. Especially with Predator being aligned with the WPA and questions of what that means for sponsorship. And Matchroom gained major ground by getting the top 128 pros to sign with them and announce it.

But the WPA has made attempts to bring Matchroom back into the fold with some major concessions like free sanctioning and staying off their backs. It would be like letting a monarchy continue to exist and be willing to bend a knee and kiss the ring in ceremony only but allow the state to actually rule itself. It is a compromise but Matchroom just doesn’t see the necessity of it. And at the moment that is the stand-off they are in.

Meanwhile, remember those continental federations? Well the Asian one is very interesting because it’s new. The Asian federation used to be the APBU but they had some concerns with the WPA. They accused the WPA president of financial mismanagement. They harped on them to produce financial statements. They annoyed them so much, the WPA kicked them out. And turned to the ACBS, the Asian governing body for snooker and carom with no ties to pool, and had them join as the governing body for pool in 2022. Some of the old APBU leaders (like from Qatar) assumed leadership roles in the ACBS.

Keep in mind under the WPA, each continental federation is allowed to make its own policies and rulings in its continent and in terms of players from its continent playing worldwide. So the Asian federation can ban its own players and the other federations must respect it. Or if international players play an unsanctioned event in Asia, the ACBS can ban them and the other federations must uphold that. It’s like a “your territory, your rules, and everyone else honors that”.

One year in, the ACBS bans all Singapore athletes (carom, pool and snooker) because a city in Singapore hosted an unsanctioned Carom world championship. Kind of sad Singapore pool players like Yapp was banned from playing pool based on something unrelated to pool. That ban lapses and everyone moves on.

Later Matchroom realizes Vietnam is a hotbed for pool based on their market analysis and schedules the Hanoi Open. They get help from Hanoi for hosting the event. Hanoi’s sports authority approves the use of funds at the behest of a local pool federation that is not Olympic-affiliated (not a member of the ACBS). The ACBS wants to be the only authority able to make those arrangements. They threaten legal action against the parties involved. They threaten bans from any Asian players that participate. Many Asian players pull out.

Later on more events are hosted in Asia and ACBS bans them too. The Hanoi Open comes up and Matchroom again secures support from the cities sports authority. New legal maneuvers come up. And this time the ACBS bans every athlete from Vietnam (pool, snooker and carom). This is the ban all the pros are protesting. When the pros announced standing together, they are talking about this.

And looking ahead, the WPA was willing to treat all Matchroom events as sanctioned except the Hanoi Open because the ACBS wouldn’t have it. So upcoming when that event occurs, it’ll be the new test for whether the WPA will uphold their ban threats.

So the question is what happens next. Does the other continental members continue to support the autonomy of the ACBS? Do they kick them out and bring in a new member like the APF? Do they overrule the ACBS? Do they enforce worldwide bans? And keep in mind some continental members are not in support of what’s happening, e.g. the BCA because the policy of the US government is to not directly provide financial support to sports (Olympic-affiliated or not) so it’s an easy choice. But other continental members do have that luxury and that is at stake.
There a cliff-notes version?? No offense but i just skip any post this long.
 
So Predator is not sanctioning their Puerto Rico men's open. Is that them testing their waters in alignment with Matchroom's tact?


1725391587748.png
 
IMHO, The 8 players should have just excluded the sentence "we will not participate in any event sanctioned by the WPA for the remainder of 2024 unless these bans are lifted." in their statement. Show their disagreement to the ban but no need to boycott. Unless they can get 100+ WNT Pros to sign the statement, then they boycott. Also the boycott is only for rest of 2024 , if ban not lifted, they still go back to play WPA events in 2025 :LOL:
Well they had to cater to play in the World 9 ball, solidarity can only go so far you know 😉 The whole thing is a joke to me. Unfortunately, Albin and Josh were placed in a compromising position during a MR event and fell for the bait where they signed a statement that could have them boycotting their own sponsor's event. What a joke!

Anyway, I got scoop of the meeting and here it goes.

SVB was singing the Karaoke "The Hanoi Open is in Jeopardy" with lyrics written by HRH Emily. Jayson was doing the SNAKE dance on the table while Fedor the fiddler was fiddling away on the fiddle. Albin and Josh were sharing the Hashish pipe smoking up a storm while former Predator players FSR and Alcaide sang the chorus "vamos vamos long live Matchroom."
 
Would it kill them to post a link to the actual freaking bracket? Is it just me, or is not linking to an actual bracket a fundamental screw-up?

Here is the link to stage 1.

And what I am assuming will be the final stage.
I think a lot of events need a master web page for the event. Dates, entry link, brackets link, press release links, etc. Seems like a pretty simple concept, but nobody does it.
 
So Predator is not sanctioning their Puerto Rico men's open. Is that them testing their waters in alignment with Matchroom's tact?


View attachment 776472
Sure, why not. Saves money, of course, and Predator naturally doesn't want the best players shunning them or being banned because of the ACBS.

I suppose it's possible Predator has also come to think the WPA is getting in its way.

Another possibility is the WPA/BCA is fine with Predator doing this as a means to get around the ACBS. Predator has gotten the women's event sanctioned, it appears.

Everything in pro pool is so mysterious. 🕵️‍♂️
 
Sure, why not. Saves money, of course, and Predator naturally doesn't want the best players shunning them or being banned because of the ACBS.

I suppose it's possible Predator has also come to think the WPA is getting in its way.

Another possibility is the WPA/BCA is fine with Predator doing this as a means to get around the ACBS. Predator has gotten the women's event sanctioned, it appears.

Everything in pro pool is so mysterious. 🕵️‍♂️

Predator has kept silent throughout the entire journey and sanctioned every one of their events. This one act is very new from them. It's only 64 players. $60k total prize fund won't pull a US Open level field. But it does put pressure on the WPA. It says they're not unilaterally behind them. Is the WPA willing to ban players that attend it? Will they announce it is "treated as sanctioned" also? I assume the Hanoi Open will really tell the tale but this act from Predator does send a signal.
 
Seems MR is throwing down the gauntlet, as they say. They will proceed with the Hanoi Open and let the pressure fall on the WPA as to how to respond.
 
Do we know why the WPA World Championship is 64 players? I recall the field was reduced to this number for a few years now, before any MR/WPA drama started. Is it because it's 8-ball and few play it anymore? Or some other reason? Was the 10-ball WC 64 or 128 players?
 
Do we know why the WPA World Championship is 64 players? I recall the field was reduced to this number for a few years now, before any MR/WPA drama started. Is it because it's 8-ball and few play it anymore? Or some other reason? Was the 10-ball WC 64 or 128 players?

the 10-ball have had varying fields, 64, 96, etc. don't know why.
 
Do we know why the WPA World Championship is 64 players? I recall the field was reduced to this number for a few years now, before any MR/WPA drama started. Is it because it's 8-ball and few play it anymore? Or some other reason? Was the 10-ball WC 64 or 128 players?
World 10-ball used to be 128 and dropped to 64 this year. I remember that came with quite a bit of criticism. Not just for the EPBF referees and their yellow cards for bathroom breaks and moving lag balls but also for the field not being bigger.
1725396176355.png


You weren't a fan of it...
 
Do we know why the WPA World Championship is 64 players? I recall the field was reduced to this number for a few years now, before any MR/WPA drama started. Is it because it's 8-ball and few play it anymore? Or some other reason? Was the 10-ball WC 64 or 128 players?
Larger fields are more expensive to run. More tables, refs, cat herding.

I think 64 is more than enough as long as the players are selected in a reasonable way, like through qualifiers. At one point, the WPA had trouble filling fields because the confederations were not able to fill their quotas of players. I assume the size of the field has been adjusted to match the interest.
 
World 10-ball used to be 128 and dropped to 64 this year. I remember that came with quite a bit of criticism. Not just for the EPBF referees and their yellow cards for bathroom breaks and moving lag balls but also for the field not being bigger.
View attachment 776493

You weren't a fan of it...
Wow, I forgot writing that. Yeah, 64 is quite low. And Predator's race format still stinks.
 
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