2nd Generation X Breaker launch at Valley Forge

[enzo]

are you saying you've never termed your tips "harder" than phenolic? if the terms are as different as you say i would think not.

thanks

The Xtreme Tip is the strongest jump break tip out there. I did not use the word "hard" because hard and strong are very different.

Answer me this, if a cue comes out tomorrow and the marketers say "i have a new cue and the tip is stronger than any tip out there, even an xbreaker"

Should I spend my hard earned cash to buy this cue? Would you buy it? I take it you may have some questions before you buy. Do you see how if you have a good product (as you seem to have) you could actually benefit by compelling marketers to prove their claims? Maybe you should see me as the good guy.

Remember, cues aren't always available to try, and thus people have to many times take a chance and buy without trying, especially when they are as advantageous as you say your cue is. So, try not to say "id try it first," this isn't always possible.

 

[Cornerman]

The Xtreme Tip is the strongest jump break tip out there.

I did not use the word "hard" because hard and strong are very different.

Richard

Enzo, you're nitpicking. Richard did us the word "harder," but he has to use some kind of layman term. I answered that for you, even if Richard didn't. And he shouldn't. He should leave the mud wrestling to the pigs and hot women. I know that he meant "it has a higher compression strength than any other tip currently available." That wouldn't have been understood by the masses.

"It makes you hit straighter," may seem like a marketing ploy. But that's part of their study. It is also part of the Predator BK study. One of them, IMO, has got it wrong, but only from a certain point of view. You and I can discuss this face to face on a table, but I'd never be able to explain it on a forum what and why they can make this claim. The can both make the claim if they have actually done the study and gotten the positive results.

"Tip in contact longer." Tip strength and contact time are two indendent variables. But, in general, the tips that are in question are the break tips vs. XBreaker tip. This might be where the term "harder" shouldn't be looked at. Maybe by your posts, Richard needs to re-evaluate the use of the word.

BTW, if you're wondering why I'm even in this thread, I've had detailed conversations with Richard while at the SBE. I'm in the process of writing a quick article on the X-Breaker for InsidePOOL. I truly think that he's come up with the better mouse trap. It's not all marketing hype.

Fred

 

[metal5d]

I tried out the X Breaker at the SBE and it is a nice break cue, but I have a hard time believing that the Maximizer keeps the tip on the cueball longer. I think the only thing it does is slightly dampen the feel in the butt of the cue. I don't really care for the looks of the Maximizer either, it really reminds me more of a gimmick and I think the same effect could be accomplished by making it shorter and keeping the look of a traditional bumper.

 

[DennyS]

Richard it was a real pleasure meeting and talking with you, my son is still considering getting one. Take care and thank you!

 

[Nostroke]

I tried out the X Breaker at the SBE and it is a nice break cue, but I have a hard time believing that the Maximizer keeps the tip on the cueball longer.

Why wouldn't you believe that? I bet if you spit on a cue, it would effect the time the tip stays in contact. We are not talking tenths of seconds here, it's more like milliseconds i assume. Im guessing a cue with any rubber bumper would stay in contact longer than one without and Richard has found the best "bumper" of all.

 

[pharaoh68]

Enzo, you're nitpicking. Richard did us the word "harder," but he has to use some kind of layman term. I answered that for you, even if Richard didn't. And he shouldn't. He should leave the mud wrestling to the pigs and hot women. I know that he meant "it has a higher compression strength than any other tip currently available." That wouldn't have been understood by the masses.

"It makes you hit straighter," may seem like a marketing ploy. But that's part of their study. It is also part of the Predator BK study. One of them, IMO, has got it wrong, but only from a certain point of view. You and I can discuss this face to face on a table, but I'd never be able to explain it on a forum what and why they can make this claim. The can both make the claim if they have actually done the study and gotten the positive results.

"Tip in contact longer." Tip strength and contact time are two indendent variables. But, in general, the tips that are in question are the break tips vs. XBreaker tip. This might be where the term "harder" shouldn't be looked at. Maybe by your posts, Richard needs to re-evaluate the use of the word.

BTW, if you're wondering why I'm even in this thread, I've had detailed conversations with Richard while at the SBE. I'm in the process of writing a quick article on the X-Breaker for InsidePOOL. I truly think that he's come up with the better mouse trap. It's not all marketing hype.

Fred

Richard, Fred, Davey-

I've broken with everything from Sledgehammer's to Andy Gilberts, to Ted Harris, to $25 J&Js bought off of ebay. This cue is by far the best. Richard has invented something here that breaks FAR better than any other break cue on the market. As well, not only does it elevate a cue ball with ease on a jump shot, but it jumps more accurately than any jumper out there. It jumps better than the Frog, better than the Jacoby Jumper. You name it. This cue is the best.

If enzo or anyone else here has a hard time understanding why this cue is so effective, tell them this: shut up, use it, and see for yourself. You don't need to explain your claims. You need to substantiate them. This cue does just that.

 

[Peer]

Snake oil marketing...

enzo wrote:
> Xbreaker performance - not an issue at all with me. [etc.]

pharaoh68 replied:
> This cue is the best. [etc.]


You guys are talking in circles here. The issue (raised by enzo) isn't about whether this cue is "the best" or not, but about Richard's marketing statements -- that he claims things which he can't or won't back up with facts. You may think this type of marketing is okay. I don't.

-- peer

 

[pharaoh68]

enzo wrote:
> Xbreaker performance - not an issue at all with me. [etc.]

pharaoh68 replied:
> This cue is the best. [etc.]


You guys are talking in circles here. The issue (raised by enzo) isn't about whether this cue is "the best" or not, but about Richard's marketing statements -- that he claims things which he can't or won't back up with facts. You may think this type of marketing is okay. I don't.

-- peer

Peer-
Go back and read the thread. Enzo said he wasn't questioning the performance of the cue. He wanted Richard to back up his statements. My comments were specifically worded in such a manner so as to raise this question to Enzo and others like him (ie~ you): Do you really need someone to explain his marketing strategy? If the answer is yes, read Fred's comments on the cue. He answered perfectly. If not, just accept that it breaks well and leave the reasons behind it alone.

 

[Peer]

pharaoh68 wrote:
> Go back and read the thread. Enzo said he wasn't questioning
> the performance of the cue. He wanted Richard to back up
> his statements.


Yes, that's correct -- he wanted Richard to back up his statements. And so do I. Or to quote myself; whenever someone refers to "research and development" without providing any data, I think of it as snake-oil until they show me how this research was done.

We differ here -- some people think this kind of hype marketing is okay. Others don't.

-- peer

 

[enzo]

If enzo or anyone else here has a hard time understanding why this cue is so effective, tell them this: shut up, use it, and see for yourself. You don't need to explain your claims. You need to substantiate them. This cue does just that.

I tried to explain this to people via pm, even edited one of my posts. I really want to stop posting here, i really do i swear. more up to richard i guess.

one of the main reasons why i feel you're wrong when you say "You don't need to explain your claims" is this: what if in a month there are six manufactureres making xbreaker style cues all saying we have the strongest tip, we have this we have that... and they are all different prices. how do you pick one?? in actuality you know nothing about the cues, you've just heard all these claims made. reviews can be VERY biased despite what people may think. try to keep in mind it's not always an option to try a cue (or 10 cues) before you buy it. just ask many of the cue purchasers on here if that is in fact the case or not.

believe it or not pharaoh68, if you're a consumer, i am looking out for you. if xbreaker copycats start to appear i think im looking out for richard too because he seems to have a good product. he should want to stand out from potential competitors by backing up what he says (most marketers don't). i know you don't believe me becasue you have an x and you love it, but my point applies to all marketers, not just richard. these people really need to be questioned.

oh, by the way, fred did not answer my questions perfectly. especially the simple one about how the x will give me a straighter cue delivery. i could go on and on here, but i wont.

 

[Snapshot9]

Be reasonable ...

If someone designs a new plane, do you think they are going to show you all of their research and development to substantiate their claims that it will
lift sooner, fly higher, and with less gas than their competitors. NO, THEY
DON'T.

As they say, the proof is in the pudding, like when the product is actually
used, and stats can be compiled from their use. If one person gives their opinion, it is just an opinion, but if a 100 people do, it becomes a supportaing factor for verification of the product.

A lot of 'claims' were made when the Predator BK originally came out, but
I was not impressed in the slightest when I tried it 3 or 4 different times.

My only complaint is that noone here in Hearland USA has one that I know of, and hence, I don't get a chance to try it myself, and I do not have the money to travel back east to the Expo or major tournament in order to try it, BUT I have followed, researched, asked many questions, and I DO PLAN ON GETTING ONE.

 

[pharaoh68]

one of the main reasons why i feel you're wrong when you say "You don't need to explain your claims" is this: what if in a month there are six manufactureres making xbreaker style cues all saying we have the strongest tip, we have this we have that... and they are all different prices. how do you pick one?? in actuality you know nothing about the cues, you've just heard all these claims made. reviews can be VERY biased despite what people may think. try to keep in mind it's not always an option to try a cue (or 10 cues) before you buy it. just ask many of the cue purchasers on here if that is in fact the case or not.

Try the cue. Try all ten. Try them repeatedly. And as you say later on in this post, if you can't do a little reading. Ask around. If you can't or won't do any of this, don't buy it. But don't ask questions or make statements like "How do you know..." and "Prove to me that..." because A) it sounds more challening than questioning and B) you should never buy a product based solely on a marketing claim because all claims can be easily justified with lies, tricks, and other means.

In this case, Richard makes a claim. His claim is supported in documented tangible proof, that is to say, his results speak for themselves and back up his claims. Don't ask him why because that is asking a man to divulge information that he may not want the general public knowing.

 

[metal5d]

If someone designs a new plane, do you think they are going to show you all of their research and development to substantiate their claims that it will lift sooner, fly higher, and with less gas than their competitors. NO, THEY DON'T.

Actually when they build airplanes they do backup all their claims with actual performance and technical data. For example:

http://www.boeing.com/assocproducts/aircompat/plan_manuals.html

When a statement is made, as an engineer, I use the IADT Methods (Inspection, Analysis, Demonstration, or Test) to verify that statement.

Inspection = Visual (or audible, etc.) identification, examination, and confirmation

Analysis = Mathematical calculation, modeling, simulation, etc.

Demonstration = Qualitative operational performance

Test = Detailed quantitative operational performance

So to say the tip stays in contact longer with the cueball because of the Maximizer, you could verify this by:

An analysis that shows with the Maximizer the tip should stay in contact longer because of reduced vibration, a demonstration using a high speed camera, or a test using a sensor to tell how long the tip was in contact with the cueball. An inspection can not verify that statement.

I agree that the X Breaker does an excellent job breaking but I also agree that unless there is data to back up a claim, that claim should not be made.

 

[pharaoh68]

Recently, someone left me some negative rep points because I said that I prefer the X Breaker to an Andy Gilbert jump/break. His reason? Gilberts have leather tips whereas X breakers do not.

To this, all I can say is:

Pal, if by now you don't know that you can put a phenolic tip on any jump/break, then stop commenting in cue debates. Jumping and breaking has a lot to do with the tip. This is true. But it also has to do with shaft construction, ferrules material and length, and a list of other things. Gilberts break well, but not as well as an X-breaker.

 

[Peer]

Snapshot9 wrote:
> If someone designs a new plane, do you think they are going
> to show you all of their research and development to
> substantiate their claims that it will lift sooner, fly higher,
> and with less gas than their competitors. NO, THEY DON'T.


"All of their research and development"..? No, they won't.

However, they will and they must disclose HOW this testing & research was done (unless it's the military). The same goes for any well-respected manufacturer, including auto, pharmaceutical, food industry, etc. Anyone who tosses around a the phrase "research and development" without a reference to how it was done, would be laughed at by any peer review (pun intended).

-- peer

 

[Peer]

pharaoh68 wrote:
> Recently, someone left me some negative rep points
> because I said that I prefer the X Breaker to an
> Andy Gilbert jump/break.


I bet you deserved it.

(just kiddin' -- I just left you a positive rep)

-- peer

 

[zeeder]

Recently, someone left me some negative rep points because I said that I prefer the X Breaker to an Andy Gilbert jump/break. His reason? Gilberts have leather tips whereas X breakers do not.

How dare you prefer one cue to another? As a Gilbert J/B owner I'm very offended!!

All joking aside, the Gilbert J/B is designed more to be an all-in-one type cue as opposed to just a jump/break. At least that's what I am assuming since it plays so well...lol. I have two shafts for my Gilbert and one has a phenolic tip which allows me to jump within about a ball's width or so which is plenty for me! I would like to try an X-Breaker at some point though to see how different it is.

 

[pharaoh68]

How dare you prefer one cue to another? As a Gilbert J/B owner I'm very offended!!

All joking aside, the Gilbert J/B is designed more to be an all-in-one type cue as opposed to just a jump/break. At least that's what I am assuming since it plays so well...lol. I have two shafts for my Gilbert and one has a phenolic tip which allows me to jump within about a ball's width or so which is plenty for me! I would like to try an X-Breaker at some point though to see how different it is.

Yes. The Gilbert is a great all around cue. However, I found that the X-Breaker does deliver a little more oomph on the break and it is deadly accurate as a jumper. Give one a try if you can. I strongly recommend it!

 

[deadstroke32]

Yes. The Gilbert is a great all around cue. However, I found that the X-Breaker does deliver a little more oomph on the break and it is deadly accurate as a jumper. Give one a try if you can. I strongly recommend it!

I was @ sbe and used the x breaker and founfd it to be a very good q .too bad i did not have the money to get one it was sold out .so i put my name on the list and hope to get one asap.
great q for the money with less force on the break..
my 2 cents..

 

[TX Poolnut]

The day after the Expo, Charlie Bryant came back to Houston for a day and I got a chance to try out his new X Breaker with the Maximizer. I have had a Predator BK cue for years.

I will be purchasing a new X Breaker and selling the Predator.