2nd set if 100 shaft woods arrived!!!

[FLYINGSNAIL]

My box got beat up again!!!!:angry:

THANK GOD NOTHING MISSING AND SHAFT WOODS ARE ALL FIND. THANKS TO BRYAN FISHER FOR 2ND SET OF 100 SHAFT WOODS.:thumbup:

 

[Jr's Farm]

The grain count looks pretty darn good, but have you inspected how your grain runout is. For an A grade shaft dowel (graded out of A,B,C), where A is the best, I got 3-4 out of 20 that don't run out in 30".
Nothing personal, but with that type of grain runout it sounds a little more like a B grade to me.
Maybe I expect too much for an "A" grade shaft dowel, or maybe I just came up short on the selection process. Oh well, I guess at $6 a pop I shouldn't complain too much, but I'd rather have 12 A+ straight grain Atlas shaft dowels ($10 ea) than 20 (or 16-17 actually) twisted/runout grained dowels( $6 ea).
Just my opinion though.

Does "A" grade, on a scale of A,B,C, allow for runout, whereas the center grain ring at one end runs off a 1" dowel at the other end? Does an "A" grade also allow for a major deviation in the middle of the dowel, whereas the center grain ring at the end runs off at about 3/8" from center at the middle of the dowel, but then finishes up at nearly center at the other end? Like I said, maybe I expect too much.
If this criteria defines an "A" grade dowel, then I'll recant my criticism.

At any rate, it's a good price for a B (B+?) grade dowel, and Bryan shipped fast and gave a good shipping rate. Some of the dowels I got were 15 RPI or better, but the twist and runout.........well, we'll see how they turn.

Regards,
Frank

 

[dchristal]

The grain count looks pretty darn good, but have you inspected how your grain runout is. For an A grade shaft dowel (graded out of A,B,C), where A is the best, I got 3-4 out of 20 that don't run out in 30".
Nothing personal, but with that type of grain runout it sounds a little more like a B grade to me.
Maybe I expect too much for an "A" grade shaft dowel, or maybe I just came up short on the selection process. Oh well, I guess at $6 a pop I shouldn't complain too much, but I'd rather have 12 A+ straight grain Atlas shaft dowels ($10 ea) than 20 (or 16-17 actually) twisted/runout grained dowels( $6 ea).
Just my opinion though.

Does "A" grade, on a scale of A,B,C, allow for runout, whereas the center grain ring at one end runs off a 1" dowel at the other end? Does an "A" grade also allow for a major deviation in the middle of the dowel, whereas the center grain ring at the end runs off at about 3/8" from center at the middle of the dowel, but then finishes up at nearly center at the other end? Like I said, maybe I expect too much.
If this criteria defines an "A" grade dowel, then I'll recant my criticism.

At any rate, it's a good price for a B (B+?) grade dowel, and Bryan shipped fast and gave a good shipping rate. Some of the dowels I got were 15 RPI or better, but the twist and runout.........well, we'll see how they turn.

Regards,
Frank

That's a pretty good analysis. My experience is about the same.

 

[BHQ]

My box got beat up again!!!!:angry:
bryan must have made the "mistake" of marking FRAGILE on the box :wink:

 

[FLYINGSNAIL]

Nothing To Do With Bryan Fisher...

My box got beat up again!!!!:angry:
bryan must have made the "mistake" of marking FRAGILE on the box :wink:

It got nothing to do with Bryan at this point. I was just disapointed at shipping company how they handle package. Is not like 50% off from shipping discount price. We pay full amount and we should be getting a good service from them.

 

[FLYINGSNAIL]

Anyway I Am Still Happy With What I Bought From Bryan....

 

[macguy]

My box got beat up again!!!!:angry:

THANK GOD NOTHING MISSING AND SHAFT WOODS ARE ALL FIND. THANKS TO BRYAN FISHER FOR 2ND SET OF 100 SHAFT WOODS.:thumbup:

That is too many shafts to ship in one bundle. Better to ship two orders of 50 nicely boxed. That package is a mess in that picture.

 

[rhncue]

That is too many shafts to ship in one bundle. Better to ship two orders of 50 nicely boxed. That package is a mess in that picture.

Your correct that that is to many shafts to be shipped in that type of container. My shaft supplier sends over a 100 shafts at a time to me but they come in a specially constructed container that they charge an extra 12.00 for and is very solid and takes a lot of effort to break into once they arrive. The difference is that they ship thousands of shafts and have become knowledgeable in what is needed to arrive safely and these were shipped by a man who is a cue maker and ships these type packages infrequently.

Dick

 

[RSCue]

No problems

My 100 showed up in great shape and the shaft blanks look great. Thanks Bryan.

 

[RFisher]

My 100 showed up in great shape and the shaft blanks look great. Thanks Bryan.

Thanks for your kind words,

Dick your Right, I am a cuemaker and don't ship things like this often, I should take more precautions, Maybe I should charge alittle more and get a higher grade of box? The boxes I get are free, and I'm just trying to keep the cost down all the way around.

 

[FLYINGSNAIL]

I hope I did not offended you...

Thanks for your kind words,

Dick your Right, I am a cuemaker and don't ship things like this often, I should take more precautions, Maybe I should charge alittle more and get a higher grade of box? The boxes I get are free, and I'm just trying to keep the cost down all the way around.

Bryan,
I am sorry if I offended you. I am sure when you pack it up with that box was perfect, was not broken like what I have in picture. I am just talking about how shipping company handling of shipment. And I am greatfully that you are giving me a great price and free shipping:grin:. Few years back when I frist starting in this cue business, I had bought some shaft woods from other seller I dont want to mention name. What he claimed is A grade wood. When I got them is a bunch of (@#$%^BS). Price that you charge and plus free shipping. I am more than happy to buying the 2nd batch from you.
Kenny

 

[rhncue]

Bryan,
I am sorry if I offended you. I am sure when you pack it up with that box was perfect, was not broken like what I have in picture. I am just talking about how shipping company handling of shipment. And I am greatfully that you are giving me a great price and free shipping:grin:. Few years back when I frist starting in this cue business, I had bought some shaft woods from other seller I dont want to mention name. What he claimed is A grade wood. When I got them is a bunch of (@#$%^BS). Price that you charge and plus free shipping. I am more than happy to buying the 2nd batch from you.
Kenny

It is for this exact reason that I very seldom buy materials from another cue maker. Some are fair and some are culprits. It can be a good deal and then again... In 1993 Sherm and myself bought 200 blanks from a fairly well known cue maker who was getting a number of guys together to make a large purchase so as to save some money. Let me just say "MISTAKE". He said that he had been getting wood from this source for years and although there may be some rejects and some premo blanks as he liked to call them, for the most part they would be good first grade blanks. We got around 30 or so half way decent blanks some of which I still have.

A year or two ago a well known cue maker got on this forum and raved about what a deal he got with Joe's shafts down in FL. He said that Joe let him go through the skid of blanks and pick out what he wanted. Such a wonderful guy. Thing is that now all the good shafts are gone and all the other cue makers get the picked over supply that is left. That's certainly not what I want. I like it where everyone gets the same chance of good and bad blanks so that all evens out.

Dick

 

[pfd studios]

A year or two ago a well known cue maker got on this forum and raved about what a deal he got with Joe's shafts down in FL. He said that Joe let him go through the skid of blanks and pick out what he wanted. Such a wonderful guy. Thing is that now all the good shafts are gone and all the other cue makers get the picked over supply that is left. That's certainly not what I want. I like it where everyone gets the same chance of good and bad blanks so that all evens out.

Dick

Hey Dickey, I believe that perhaps I am the "well known cuemaker" you have alluded to and yes, I did indicate that by going thru a pallet of maple shaftwood squares I was able to obtain some really nice wood - which I gladly paid a bit of a premium for just to have the rare opportunity to select my own shaftwood. Furthermore, Joe from Cue Components was very fair on the price. However, I was not permitted to select many of the very highest grade pieces and frankly there was so much good shaftwood that this really did not trouble me. Furthermore, the wood that I rejected was immediately boxed to be sent to another customer in the furniture industry - NOT anyone related to cuemaking in any way shape or fashion . . . so get over the idea that other cuemakers might be getting "seconds" . . . I understand your concern(s) but frankly Joe has so much shaftwood that on any given day sorting out 200 or more pieces will not make a dent in his inventory . . . he has lots of great shaftwood - the day I was there he had over 20,000 squares and I took away less than 1 percent.

 

[Fatboy]

on a couple of mid 70's Gus cues I have some shafts with 3 to 5 growth rings and terrible run out, the shafts would be rejects at K-Mart cues, however they play great and are perfectly straight some 30 years later. they are 100% the origonal shafts and the 2nd shaft on some of the cues is a good shaft and in some cases they are both very poor shafts from a grading stand point but play great. So here is my question, I know Gus didnt have a shortage of shafts, he certainly didnt sell second rate cues, what did he see that others dont? when he chose that shabby looking wood?? He clearly knew something. So is all this grading ll that meaningful for the performance of the cue or just a way for a guy selling wood to charge cue makers more???



thanks in advance for any answeres about Gus? I have asked Barry thi.s but I'm open to other opinions or theorys about the importance of grading wood-is it a excuse to charge more or does it effect playability??? i'm a solid player(over 20 years) and own alot of cues so I have my opinions too., i'm very interested in wood, I awalys have been, the artistic side of cues takes a back seat behind, my love of wood ,cue construction, and material choices.

 

[RFisher]

Dick your post is about spot on BUT,

I still haven't gone through them and sorted: awsome, good, ok, less than thrilling, crappy, junk. I know no one is going to take my word for it, but I wish some of the guys (other than Kenny) would come forward and say what they wrote me about the shafts they got, I shipped shafts to about 20 guys, I have 3 that are disappointed, the rest have given me thumbs up and are interested in ordering again. The 3 that are disapointed I do feel bad about but that is the risk when I "grab and go with shaft wood, all that have bought and paid alittle extra for certain characteristics in the shaft have all been very satisfied. Only one who bought 100 was un happy, and he said he got 50 great blanks, and 30 very good blanks, 10 ok, 10 junk, and he was disappointed? If people expect every blank to be great/perfect, then either spend alittle more and have me pick them out, or I guess I'm not the right guy to order from.

But yes, For $6 per blank, and already round. Even if every shaft is only 6 gpi it's still cheap, and alot of them are higher, some in the 20gpi range. I cant contol grain straightness, and runout, I didn't grow the tree, and as GUS Szamboti would say, GOD MADE THE SHAFT, NOT ME.

This isn't an attack on you Dick, your opinion is respected, alot can be learned by you and others.

It's just, I haven't grabbed all the good blanks for myself and trying to sell the junk to every one else.

I'm sorry to the guys who were disapointed, I don't want to say you get what you paid for, but I did offer to sort through them to any and everyone for $8-20 a blank. The $20 ones are few and fare between.

my supplier grades these shafts from Color, low to no suger marks. The Ring count isn't something they can control, they don't sort shafts based on ring count and runoff, that is our Job.

 

[RFisher]

on a couple of mid 70's Gus cues I have some shafts with 3 to 5 growth rings and terrible run out, the shafts would be rejects at K-Mart cues, however they play great and are perfectly straight some 30 years later. they are 100% the origonal shafts and the 2nd shaft on some of the cues is a good shaft and in some cases they are both very poor shafts from a grading stand point but play great. So here is my question, I know Gus didnt have a shortage of shafts, he certainly didnt sell second rate cues, what did he see that others dont? when he chose that shabby looking wood?? He clearly knew something. So is all this grading ll that meaningful for the performance of the cue or just a way for a guy selling wood to charge cue makers more???



thanks in advance for any answeres about Gus? I have asked Barry thi.s but I'm open to other opinions or theorys about the importance of grading wood-is it a excuse to charge more or does it effect playability??? i'm a solid player(over 20 years) and own alot of cues so I have my opinions too., i'm very interested in wood, I awalys have been, the artistic side of cues takes a back seat behind, my love of wood ,cue construction, and material choices.

Great Post Sir,

Can't speak for everyone, and I know there will be afew of the same guys who always troll this forum and wait for a cuemaker to say something so they can come on and Say, WELL I'D NEVER USE THAT ON MY CUES, I ONLY USE THE BEST, THAT DOESN"T CUT IT IN MY SHOP, BLAH BLAH, same guys who really have 1 and a half lathes and 8 shaft blanks to there name, and front like they have an expanded knowledge of wood and cue making were truth be told, GOOGLE, and ask Jeeves is a click away, and they get to sound like they know what there talking about. And when they do ridicule, they only say, THATS NOT WHAT I HEARD, THATS NOT WHAT I LEARNED, I WOULD TRY THE OTHER METHOD, EXT...............

There is no best shafts, the best shafts are the ones that don't warp when properly taken care off and cared for. If someone wants a shaft with alot of whip/flex, they're getting a 14-16in taper, and a shaft with no more than 10 gpi and as little as 4-6 unless otherwise specified by the buyer. Stiff shafts, 8+ gpi, more if specified. and yes there is other ways to effect stiff/whippy, Ferrule length, tip ect........

And Fat boy, until you get up to 12-14 growth rings and higher, or depending on the weight/density of the shaft wood, then the higher gpi count, and grading truely comes into play.

The other importance of shaft appearence is just that "appearence". Think about this:

You have a beautiful $18,000 ebony and Ivory black boar/gina/manzino ext.....now put two shafts that are/have, dark, many suger marks, spots, birdseyes, bad looking run off, maybe even a huge mineral spot in the middle of it. Now that doesn't sound or look right does it?

 

[masonh]

So here is my question, I know Gus didnt have a shortage of shafts, he certainly didnt sell second rate cues, what did he see that others dont? when he chose that shabby looking wood?? He clearly knew something.

i am sure there are plenty of shafts out there that are 3 rpi and have severe runout,but i doubt that Gus saw something special in these particular shafts.i bet he just grabbed them off the rack and put rings on them and that was that.


the runout scares me more than the 3 rpi,but if it's still straight then the runout didn't matter.

 

[Michael Webb]

on a couple of mid 70's Gus cues I have some shafts with 3 to 5 growth rings and terrible run out, the shafts would be rejects at K-Mart cues, however they play great and are perfectly straight some 30 years later. they are 100% the origonal shafts and the 2nd shaft on some of the cues is a good shaft and in some cases they are both very poor shafts from a grading stand point but play great. So here is my question, I know Gus didnt have a shortage of shafts, he certainly didnt sell second rate cues, what did he see that others dont? when he chose that shabby looking wood?? He clearly knew something. So is all this grading ll that meaningful for the performance of the cue or just a way for a guy selling wood to charge cue makers more???



thanks in advance for any answeres about Gus? I have asked Barry thi.s but I'm open to other opinions or theorys about the importance of grading wood-is it a excuse to charge more or does it effect playability??? i'm a solid player(over 20 years) and own alot of cues so I have my opinions too., i'm very interested in wood, I awalys have been, the artistic side of cues takes a back seat behind, my love of wood ,cue construction, and material choices.

I would never try to speculate what Gus saw in his shaft wood but I will say that proper seasoning is the start for all that follows.

 

[RFisher]

I would never try to speculate what Gus saw in his shaft wood but I will say that proper seasoning is the start for all that follows.

TAP TAP TAP,

 

[Jr's Farm]

my supplier grades these shafts from Color, low to no suger marks. The Ring count isn't something they can control, they don't sort shafts based on ring count and runoff, that is our Job.

Not to pick nits, but maybe a better definition of your suppliers grade should have been included in the original thread where the shafts were offered. To now find out now that their "A" grade is for color and sugar only and not runoff would have been good to know earlier.

What gets me is that apparently everyone has their own grading expectancy, whereas one persons "A" grade allows for runoff but anothers does not. Basing an assumption based on a comparable grading system (Atlas), they don't allow any grain runoff in any of their "A" grade shafts.
Obviously their grading system is different than your suppliers.

What I propose is that anyone that sells shafts, should list and explain their grading system prior to making sales. That would help alleviate alot of confusion down the road. Listing whether criteria such as Color, Ring count, Runoff or Sugar/Mineral marks are acceptable or considered, and at what grades.

Lastly, I should post that what had me concerned with the dowels I got was not the ring count, just the runoff. I'm not all that upset as I only ordered a few of them for a sample selection and am not out any great deal of money. The ring count and density of the dowels seems great and only time will tell if the runoff is an issue or not.

Anyway, that's really all I have to say on this, as my small sampling size isn't really an indicator of the overall quality of the product, just my personal experience. I'm sure Bryan didn't mean to conceive or do anything illicit or unjust, so I have no hard feelings.

Regards,
Frank