3 Foul: When to warn you oppenent!

[Cracktherack]

If I tell you you're on 2 and you foul again, you lose. If you dispute that with me, I find out if your head will fit all the way into the side pocket as you're screaming for help.
Seriously, if you act like a fool and believe you can use trickery to circumvent the basic rules, in our poolroom you'll never get a game. Neither will the players even talk to you. Want to work the rules like a yo-yo, go join a league.

 

[nine_ball6970]

The "right" way to handle fouls is to record it on a scoreboard. Then the posted fouls constitute the warning. Sadly, pool seems to have forgotten about scoreboards. We used to have them. Back when we had referees and scorekeepers.

Given that we have moved into low-budget mode, and are trying to operate without scoreboards, I think the best way to handle 3 fouls is the way I try to do it: warn my opponent when he commits his second foul and warn him again as he comes to the table to shoot his third foul. That avoid needless "discussions" after the fact.

I like the rationale because sometimes people will get into a dispute as to whether they have committed two consecutive fouls or not. For that reason I think it is easier to tell them after they have committed the second foul.

Even so, I feel like you can make people even more mad if you tell them before you shoot and then again after you play the safety. I could hear someone saying "I heard you the first time" like you are just trying to rub it in if you played a lock up safety.

 

[BmoreMoney]

It has always been my understanding that the official rule is you must tell your opponent AFTER your turn at the table and while they are making their way to the table to take their turn on two fouls. Along time ago I had told them right after the second foul and did not tell them according to the rule. Well this one guy was in general a douche and he fouled but thru the rule in my face. It was a very close set near the end for a good bit of money. While I wa technically wrong, it led to words which quickly escalted to a fight. I hurt the guy defending myself. Every since I always make it a point to tell them both times in accordance with the rule in an effort to avoid those types of situations.

 

[john coloccia]

The rule is the way it is because when good players are playing, you might be in your seat for 10 minutes....or 20 minutes....or an hour. Then he gets up and either takes an intentional foul or plays a risky safety and fouls. Happens all the time in straight pool with good players. Now the player that's on 2 gets called for 3 fouls. He's immediately going to say, "If you knew I was on 2, why didn't you warn me? I wouldn't have taken the intentional foul!", and he'd be 100% right.

In practice, with gentleman playing the game, it never comes up. If I remember I'm on 2, I'll remind the other player myself. If the other guy remembers, he'll warn me. If no one remembers, well then you have the situation with Orcullo and SVB a couple of weeks ago.

But if you remember and just let the other guy shoot anyhow without performing your duty, who's the guy not being a gentleman again? He may let it go in a friendly match and take the penalty anyway, but to most people it's going to look like you're the one gaming the rules, not the guy that fouled.

 

[billiardthought]

But if you remember and just let the other guy shoot anyhow without performing your duty, who's the guy not being a gentleman again? He may let it go in a friendly match and take the penalty anyway, but to most people it's going to look like you're the one gaming the rules, not the guy that fouled.

It's like getting a speeding ticket and in court saying you never got a second reminder to pay and it should be forgiven.

If I am playing a friendly game with someone for free, I am NEVER 3 fouling someone. What a waste of time. If I am 3 fouling someone, Im playing for that cheddar. I'm not your mommy, i'm not going to remind you each time it's ball in hand if you have been off running errands in the pool room. If you are so unconcerned about the money you are putting in action, don't gamble or pay better attention. Bring your nanny if you need help remembering.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... If I am playing a friendly game with someone for free, I am NEVER 3 fouling someone. What a waste of time. ...

14.1 is different, of course.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

14.1 is different, of course.

If I'm playing with a friend of mine, who is a good player, I think we try MORE for the 3 foul win. It's like holding something over their head. "Hey, remember when I 3 bagged you a few months ago...?". This is, of course, 9 or 10 ball.

 

[PhilosopherKing]

I don't know what's worse at higher levels of play: getting ball in hand twice in a row and not getting out or fouling
on three consecutive turns... I think a player should win the game if he is warned and makes a legal hit... The sword should cut both ways.

 

[Fenwick]

Personally, I think the 3 fouls rules is a bunch of garbage and you win the game by pocketing object balls.

You don't win on a third foul in straight pool. You simply lose a total of 18 points. Same with 8 ball where I play. 1 for each foul and 15 for fouling 3 times. Back to the original post, I'll warn them twice.
Once when they commit their second foul and again before they get to the table. Do I have to, no. Sometimes if I commit my third foul my opponent forgets. I just take the 15 points + 1 points off and take the chair telling them I three fouled.

 

[3andstop]

It's already been addressed in the rules, and it's very specific. You have a duty to warn when your opponent is approaching the table. If you don't, there's no third foul penalty and it's like you're still on 2 fouls.

Oh, then what the hell is the gum flapping and jaw yapping from nay sayers about? Its already a freaking rule. Geez.

 

[bad_hit]

Isn't the real reason for this rule to avoid arguments after you tell your opponent they just lost the game? By saying "you're on two" and getting a head nod, you've had the discussion and avoided the argument if they lose on 3 fouls.

Why does it matter WHEN you tell them? As long as it's sometime between the 2nd foul and when they lose the game due to 3 consecutive, isn't that all that matters?

Seems really NIT-picky.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Hopefully all of you already know this information but I feel the need to post it consider how often I run into players who don't fully understand the 3-foul rule in 9-ball.

In order to successfully 3 foul your opponent you must make him foul 3 times in a row however you must verbally warn your opponent that they are on 2 fouls as they are approaching the table to shoot.

More times than not, my opponent will tell me that I am on two fouls while they are at the table preparing to play a safety. This is not the correct timing and will not win you the match. Why you ask? Because you warned me at the wrong time. You have to warn me after you have played your 3rd safety and while I am approaching the table to shoot.

Some people don't see the difference or the reasoning behind the rule but there are a couple interesting scenarios that can come up:

1. I can be an a-hole after I foul a 3rd time and tell you the game goes on because you warned me at the wrong time (Obviously I would never do this but someone might)

2. Let's say you warn me that I am on 2. You then decide you are going to try the runout. You run 5-6 balls and then it's my shot. In the mean time my mind wandered and I forgot that I was on 2. I shoot at a ball and end up scratching. Since you did not warn me as I was approaching the table the game would not be over.

3. Let's say you warn me that I am on 2. You then play a safe. I go to the bathroom. I forget that I am on 2 and I foul. This would not be game over either since you warned me before I was approaching the table.

I've also ran into a hand full of people that don't realize that you can make a few balls in between 3 fouling you opponent. This is where it's important to remember the innings of the match because your opponent usually won't realize he is on two fouls when you warn him.

For example, let's say you scratch on the break. I get ball in hand and run out to the 5 ball. I play a lock up safety on the 5. You miss the kick. I get ball in hand again and make the 5 and 6 and then play another safety on the 7 ball. I turn to you as you are approaching the table and say "You're on two". A lot of times you will be in disbelief and dispute it because it doesn't feel like you are on two.

It's important to pay attention to the innings and be prepared to give your opponent the play-by-play to recount the fouls when necessary.

Sorry to everyone who had to read this who already understood rule. And thank you for understanding it! To the rest of you, smarten up and good luck!!

I'm not sure what the exact rules are on this, but etiquette, common courtesy, and common sense dictate that you should shoot your shot (when the opponent is on 2), and as you finish and are walking away from the table *that* is the right time to say "you're on 2", and get a confirmation from your opponent. I'm sure there are many times you *can* say it. I'm describing when you *should* say it.

KMRUNOUT

 

[Flip_dat_Quarta]

Isn't the real reason for this rule to avoid arguments after you tell your opponent they just lost the game? By saying "you're on two" and getting a head nod, you've had the discussion and avoided the argument if they lose on 3 fouls.

Why does it matter WHEN you tell them? As long as it's sometime between the 2nd foul and when they lose the game due to 3 consecutive, isn't that all that matters?

Seems really NIT-picky.

The reason is not only to avoid arguments but also to ensure that your opponent is fully aware that he needs to make a good hit or the game is going to end.

Sure it sounds a little nit-picky if you are simply warning them, shooting and they are at the table within a few seconds. But what happens if things play out a little different?

For example, let's say I commit my second foul and immediately my opponent warns me that I am on two. Then my opponent who happens to be an extremely slow player stares at the table for 5 minutes deciding on whether or not to go for the run out. He then tries for the run out. He plays really slow and gets all the way down to the end where he hooks himself (5 more minutes). Then he is hooked so he takes another 5 minutes to plan out his low percentage multi rail kick shot. He finally executes a good hit but no more balls are pocketed. He then sits down and I approach the table.

It has now been 15 minutes since I was last warned that I am on 2. Regardless of whose fault it is, I have forgotten that I am on two. So now I shoot at a ball and accidentally scratch. The game does not end because I was not aware at the time I played my shot that I was on two.

So the rule is meant to avoid arguments and also raise awareness. It's important for the shooter to be fully aware of his situation before shooting.

And if you compare the same logic to straight pool, you can be sitting down for an hour between innings so it's very easy to get distracted and forget that you are on two.

I can't believe how many people on here are disputing the rule as if it's a controversy or something. This rule is set it stone. There is no grey area. Either abide by the rules or don't and leave yourself open to the consequences. Obviously if you are gambling you can use whatever rules you prefer but unless you decide on a rule change ahead of time you better be prepared to follow the standardized rules.

When I first posted this I figured everyone would have just agreed and said that it's common knowledge but now I'm glad that I posted it because a lot of people on here are misinformed. Wise up people!

 

[nine_ball6970]

The reason is not only to avoid arguments but also to ensure that your opponent is fully aware that he needs to make a good hit or the game is going to end.

Sure it sounds a little nit-picky if you are simply warning them, shooting and they are at the table within a few seconds. But what happens if things play out a little different?

For example, let's say I commit my second foul and immediately my opponent warns me that I am on two. Then my opponent who happens to be an extremely slow player stares at the table for 5 minutes deciding on whether or not to go for the run out. He then tries for the run out. He plays really slow and gets all the way down to the end where he hooks himself (5 more minutes). Then he is hooked so he takes another 5 minutes to plan out his low percentage multi rail kick shot. He finally executes a good hit but no more balls are pocketed. He then sits down and I approach the table.

It has now been 15 minutes since I was last warned that I am on 2. Regardless of whose fault it is, I have forgotten that I am on two. So now I shoot at a ball and accidentally scratch. The game does not end because I was not aware at the time I played my shot that I was on two.

So the rule is meant to avoid arguments and also raise awareness. It's important for the shooter to be fully aware of his situation before shooting.

And if you compare the same logic to straight pool, you can be sitting down for an hour between innings so it's very easy to get distracted and forget that you are on two.

I can't believe how many people on here are disputing the rule as if it's a controversy or something. This rule is set it stone. There is no grey area. Either abide by the rules or don't and leave yourself open to the consequences. Obviously if you are gambling you can use whatever rules you prefer but unless you decide on a rule change ahead of time you better be prepared to follow the standardized rules.

When I first posted this I figured everyone would have just agreed and said that it's common knowledge but now I'm glad that I posted it because a lot of people on here are misinformed. Wise up people!

There is a difference between being misinformed and thinking a rule should be different for one game than another.

If I tell you that you are on 2, which you acknowledge, and then play a safety five seconds later, would you seriously claim that you forgot you were on 2 and say the 3rd foul does not count? That is a much more common scenario than someone taking five minutes for each shot in your example.

 

[Flip_dat_Quarta]

There is a difference between being misinformed and thinking a rule should be different for one game than another.

If I tell you that you are on 2, which you acknowledge, and then play a safety five seconds later, would you seriously claim that you forgot you were on 2 and say the 3rd foul does not count? That is a much more common scenario than someone taking five minutes for each shot in your example.

No, I would not claim I forget. But I am a nice guy. Not everyone is nice.

If you left your keys in your car would I steal it? No. Does that make it a smart thing to do? No.

Warn your opponent at the correct time and lock your damn car!

 

[john coloccia]

There is a difference between being misinformed and thinking a rule should be different for one game than another.

If I tell you that you are on 2, which you acknowledge, and then play a safety five seconds later, would you seriously claim that you forgot you were on 2 and say the 3rd foul does not count? That is a much more common scenario than someone taking five minutes for each shot in your example.

I know I mentioned it, and I think others have too, that when you're playing straight pool you could very well be in your seat for a long time. It wouldn't be unusual to be sitting for 20 minutes....30 minutes...maybe even an hour if your opponent runs 100 balls, for example.

For other games, it's probably a lot harder to loose track, but it's dead easy to loose track in straight pool. Shoot, I loose track sometimes in my league and even our really good players don't usually string together more than 15 balls. It's a slow game regardless and you do a lot of sitting and waiting.

Honestly, I can't remember ever 3 fouling in any game other than 14.1, so I think it's kind of weird that this is even a thing that gets people upset.