3 Maples - Are they the same?

Kickin' Chicken

Kickin' Chicken

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3 Maples -

Curly

Tiger

Fiddleback

Are these all the same woods, just maybe varying in intensity or are they, in fact, different species?

I see curly maple as having some curl to it.

Tiger maple seems more pronounced but some people do interchange this with curly, maybe rightfully so. .

Fiddleback; when I see someone describe a cue this way, it's usually very intense striping.

So can you guys chime in in case I end up on Jeopardy and this comes up? :grin-square:

best,
brian kc
 
Wikipedia says;
Flame maple (tiger maple), also known as flamed maple, curly maple, ripple maple, fiddleback or tiger stripe, is a feature of maple in which the growth of the wood fibers is distorted in an undulating chatoyant pattern, producing wavy lines known as "flames". This effect is often mistakenly said to be part of the grain of the wood; it is more accurately called "figure", as the distortion is perpendicular to the grain direction. Prized for its beautiful appearance, it is used frequently in the manufacturing of musical instruments, such as violins and bassoons, and fine furniture. Another well-known use of the material is its use in guitars, especially the venerated Gibson Les Paul. The Gibson Les Paul "Standard", initially manufactured from 1958 to 1960, sported a flame maple top finished in a cherry-red sunburst on a mahogany body. Today, these instruments are some of the most prized on the vintage guitar market, and as such are unaffordable to most musicians.[1]

During the westward expansion of early settlers and explorers into the lands west of the Appalachian Mountains, curly maple was often used for making the stocks used on Kentucky rifles.
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
3 Maples -

Curly

Tiger

Fiddleback

Are these all the same woods, just maybe varying in intensity or are they, in fact, different species?

I see curly maple as having some curl to it.

Tiger maple seems more pronounced but some people do interchange this with curly, maybe rightfully so. .

Fiddleback; when I see someone describe a cue this way, it's usually very intense striping.

So can you guys chime in in case I end up on Jeopardy and this comes up? :grin-square:

best,
brian kc
Click to expand...

In terms of woodworking, they are all description terms for the same figuring. Often times intensity of the figure as well as direction of the cut (slab, quartersawn, ect) will be noted in terms of a,aa,aaa, ect which denotes the quality aaaaa being the finest cut
 
Mr. Bass Man said:
In terms of woodworking, they are all description terms for the same figuring. Often times intensity of the figure as well as direction of the cut (slab, quartersawn, ect) will be noted in terms of a,aa,aaa, ect which denotes the quality aaaaa being the finest cut
Click to expand...

So if I ask for a cue made from aaaaa wood I hope the cue maker understands and doesn't think I'm stuttering.
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
3 Maples -

Curly

Tiger

Fiddleback

Are these all the same woods, just maybe varying in intensity or are they, in fact, different species?

I see curly maple as having some curl to it.

Tiger maple seems more pronounced but some people do interchange this with curly, maybe rightfully so. .

Fiddleback; when I see someone describe a cue this way, it's usually very intense striping.

So can you guys chime in in case I end up on Jeopardy and this comes up? :grin-square:

best,
brian kc
Click to expand...

My understanding is there is Hard maple and Soft maple. hard maple is what is used in pool cues. The different figuring occurs as the tree grows, it often comes from different parts of the tree occurring naturally. Although interesting many consider it defects. I don't think you will find any BEM Balabushka's he used straight grain maple in his forearms like shaft wood.

Interesting read

http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/differences-between-hard-maple-and-soft-maple/
 
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Kickin' Chicken said:
3 Maples -

Curly

Tiger

Fiddleback

Are these all the same woods, just maybe varying in intensity or are they, in fact, different species?

I see curly maple as having some curl to it.

Tiger maple seems more pronounced but some people do interchange this with curly, maybe rightfully so. .

Fiddleback; when I see someone describe a cue this way, it's usually very intense striping.

So can you guys chime in in case I end up on Jeopardy and this comes up? :grin-square:

best,
brian kc
Click to expand...

In my experience, curly maple is a great wood. They use it for gunstocks and it's very stable and especially attractive. Birdseye can pose problems. Besides tear out when working with the wood, those smiles create weak spots that can separate over time.

By the way, I had some shafts with curly and bird's eye. The birds eye is prone to splitting. Both curly and bird's eye are very distracting as shaft wood as you take your practice strokes.

Below is an M1 Garand with a custom curly maple stock (not mine). On gun stocks we used to refer to this as "fiddleback" - this figure appears in a wide variety of woods and is highly prized for custom gunstocks. Maple is still pretty affordable. One time I paid about $500 for premium curly French walnut just for a piece of wood for a gunstock.

"Quilted maple" is another amazing figure. You don't see it in cues much but you do in other woodworking applications. The bottom one is quilted. Quilt is typically seen in the softer maples and is quite stunning.
 

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There is a gentlemen whom scoured the Great Lakes for a shipment of Maple trees that had sunken to the bottom of 1 of the Great Lakes .
After finding this forgotten and unattended lost cargo for some decades and recovering these logs from the depths of this lake . He now retaians 1 of the rarest quality Maples todate .

This species would in fact be the Birds eye Maple utilized for Violins and other such stringed instruments .
From my understading George Balabushka did utilize Birds eye Maple .. But then switched from Birds Eye to straight grain . And to what was readily available .

Furniture Grade Woods are classified by Quality of the grains , Imperfections and consistancy of growth .
( A ) being the best quality . When a tree grows during a drought duration the grains or growth rings are closer together . ( smaller in diamiter )
There is another factor involved when milling such woods . This would be the water content of these kiln dried woods and yes this is also measured .
 
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ceebee said:
Wikipedia says;
Flame maple (tiger maple), also known as flamed maple, curly maple, ripple maple, fiddleback or tiger stripe, is a feature of maple in which the growth of the wood fibers is distorted in an undulating chatoyant pattern, producing wavy lines known as "flames". This effect is often mistakenly said to be part of the grain of the wood; it is more accurately called "figure", as the distortion is perpendicular to the grain direction. Prized for its beautiful appearance, it is used frequently in the manufacturing of musical instruments, such as violins and bassoons, and fine furniture. Another well-known use of the material is its use in guitars, especially the venerated Gibson Les Paul. The Gibson Les Paul "Standard", initially manufactured from 1958 to 1960, sported a flame maple top finished in a cherry-red sunburst on a mahogany body. Today, these instruments are some of the most prized on the vintage guitar market, and as such are unaffordable to most musicians.[1]

During the westward expansion of early settlers and explorers into the lands west of the Appalachian Mountains, curly maple was often used for making the stocks used on Kentucky rifles.
Click to expand...

cha·toy·ant
SHəˈtoiənt/
adjective
adjective: chatoyant

(of a gem, especially when cut en cabochon) showing a band of bright reflected light caused by aligned inclusions in the stone.

Origin
late 18th century: French, present participle of chatoyer ‘to shimmer.’
Translate chatoyant to
Use over time for: chatoyant

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I love to learn and thank you for this word that I never heard before. :thumbup:

wiki sorted this one out pretty good. :smile::thumbup:

best,
brian kc
 
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TATE said:
In my experience, curly maple is a great wood. They use it for gunstocks and it's very stable and especially attractive. Birdseye can pose problems. Besides tear out when working with the wood, those smiles create weak spots that can separate over time.

By the way, I had some shafts with curly and bird's eye. The birds eye is prone to splitting. Both curly and bird's eye are very distracting as shaft wood as you take your practice strokes.

Below is an M1 Garand with a custom curly maple stock (not mine). On gun stocks we used to refer to this as "fiddleback" - this figure appears in a wide variety of woods and is highly prized for custom gunstocks. Maple is still pretty affordable. One time I paid about $500 for premium curly French walnut just for a piece of wood for a gunstock.

"Quilted maple" is another amazing figure. You don't see it in cues much but you do in other woodworking applications. The bottom one is quilted. Quilt is typically seen in the softer maples and is quite stunning.
Click to expand...

beautiful illustrative examples. :thumbup:

thx!!

best,
brian kc
 
my question is this... I'm having a stick made for me. The forearm will have 4 points. The forearm material.... Other than visually... will I notice a difference in feel or hit from curly to birdseye to tiger to heavily quilted, etc...
 
Whether or not there is something to it, others more expert than me would have to say.

But...

I am very lucky to own a TS Phantom cue which there are just a few. When Tim made the Phantoms they were supposed to be the best ever players from his shop and he chose the purest straight grain maple he could source.

Also, as I have been told, George Balabushka didn't like to use birdseye because it was a disease and less stable. He liked straight grain maple forearms.

Jerry Franklin has been referenced numerous times as saying pau ferro was the best playing cue wood he ever used. I have actually heard that Jeff Olney has said the same.

Chris Tate did allude to the fact that birdseye is more pone to splitting which makes sense though no birdseye cue I have ever owned has suffered that fate.

best,
brian kc
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
Whether or not there is something to it, others more expert than me would have to say.

But...

I am very lucky to own a TS Phantom cue which there are just a few. When Tim made the Phantoms they were supposed to be the best ever players from his shop and he chose the purest straight grain maple he could source.

Also, as I have been told, George Balabushka didn't like to use birdseye because it was a disease and less stable. He liked straight grain maple forearms.

Jerry Franklin has been referenced numerous times as saying pau ferro was the best playing cue wood he ever used. I have actually heard that Jeff Olney has said the same.

Chris Tate did allude to the fact that birdseye is more pone to splitting which makes sense though no birdseye cue I have ever owned has suffered that fate.

best,
brian kc
Click to expand...

I REALLY like the look of a heavily quilted curly maple! Similar to this picture below. Will the heavy quilting affect the play / hit of the cue as opposed to birdseye or straight grain?
 
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Kickin' Chicken said:
Chris Tate did allude to the fact that birdseye is more pone to splitting which makes sense though no birdseye cue I have ever owned has suffered that fate.

best,
brian kc
Click to expand...

Most of the modern cues are cored, which eliminates the problem.

Over time, here's what I've seen break down.

A Burton Spain solid birdseye shaft broke at the end. It looked to me like the break was from someone breaking with it and the tip end split from being pressed onto the table. It shattered pretty good. It was clear to me that heavily figured birdseye does not have the bending properties of straight grain maple. (although I've seen plenty of curly shafts that were fine).

A Paradise cue with solid birdeye forearm developed a deep fissure on the curly side. Several heavily figured old Meucci forearms. On the curly side grain of the maple, they developed deep fissures which look like cracks.

Snakewood - a different species, but same idea. There was a solid stabilized snakewood handle someone dropped. It hit the concrete, joint side down, and shattered like a piece of glass.

I recommend that any cue maker properly core any heavily figured wood, stabilized or not.
 
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TATE said:
Most of the modern cues are cored, which eliminates the problem.

Over time, here's what I've seen break down.

A Burton Spain solid birdseye shaft broke at the end. It looked to me like the break was from someone breaking with it and the tip end split from being pressed onto the table. It shattered pretty good. It was clear to me that heavily figured birdseye does not have the bending properties of straight grain maple. (although I've seen plenty of curly shafts that were fine).

A Paradise cue with solid birdeye forearm developed a deep fissure on the curly side. Several heavily figured old Meucci forearms. On the curly side grain of the maple, they developed deep fissures which look like cracks.

Snakewood - a different species, but same idea. There was a solid stabilized snakewood handle someone dropped. It hit the concrete, joint side down, and shattered like a piece of glass.

I recommend that any cue maker properly core any heavily figured wood, stabilized or not.
Click to expand...

It is a stepped core he uses
 
You wanna really get confused?

Purple Heart wood is not the same as Purple Heartwood :)

heart%20wood.JPG
 
brian v said:
There is a gentlemen whom scoured the Great Lakes for a shipment of Maple trees that had sunken to the bottom of 1 of the Great Lakes .
After finding this forgotten and unattended lost cargo for some decades and recovering these logs from the depths of this lake . He now retaians 1 of the rarest quality Maples todate .

This species would in fact be the Birds eye Maple utilized for Violins and other such stringed instruments .
From my understading George Balabushka did utilize Birds eye Maple .. But then switched from Birds Eye to straight grain . And to what was readily available .

Furniture Grade Woods are classified by Quality of the grains , Imperfections and consistancy of growth .
( A ) being the best quality . When a tree grows during a drought duration the grains or growth rings are closer together . ( smaller in diamiter )
There is another factor involved when milling such woods . This would be the water content of these kiln dried woods and yes this is also measured .
Click to expand...

Actually, Guido Orlandi bought some of this stock from the Great Lakes, which was straight grained maple & ring count to almost 30 per inch. We put the entire lot of shafts in a test chamber, to determine the best pieces. They've been selling very good, because they do have a great hit.
 
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