30 min practice spurts.. better then hit a million balls?

[trob]

I was watching clips on my phone and they showed a clip from a pod cast of an instructor discussing the hit a million balls theory being incorrect. He said when Efren was asked how much he practices he said only a half at a time. If he practices in the morning he will again in the afternoon and that’s it. This instructor said it makes sense because if you have long practices the average person will lose focus and that’s when bad habits will sink back in and then frustration. He tells his students to go 4-6 weeks where they are only practicing 30 mins a day and they see real progress. So my personal thinking is

1) As I’ve said many time I don’t like to compare what I do or the equipment I use to the best players in the world. They have more natural ability then I do so comparing yourself to the goat just seems like stinkin thinkin. Svb is known to shoot the same shot for hours upon hours upon hours but I think he is born with a concentration and focus the average person may not possess.

2) but I think for some of it stands out. I try to now take a little break. I tend to play a race against the ghost then stroke drills. Then another race and then more stroke drills. Lately I’ve been throwing some straight pool in there because of an upcoming league but just taking 5 mins to rest in between .. whether it’s watching tv or looking at my phone for a bit seems to keep my concentration at a higher level for practice longer.

I love the game to much and with a diamond table in my garage (it’s like having a mountain of crack in your house and telling a crack head not to touch it.) I’m going to struggle only playing a half hour a day lol

 

[Paul Bell]

Svb is known to shoot the same shot for hours upon hours upon hours but I think he is born with a concentration and focus the average person may not possess

Maybe this is the group with SVB, but Jay Helfert recommended practicing for hours at the table. This is instruction advocating mindlessness to improve. I think being in the zone is super way of playing and one that has a magical reliance on one's subconscious. It is over-rated, however, while study and practice is under-rated.

Often times you make tiny adjustments when you are playing tired that lead to major improvements in your game. I've aften advised playing long sessions, like seven or eight hours. I mean really playing, like sets against someone

and others posted similarly on AZ:

Always thought I played best when I was Dead Tired.

Too tired to think, just shoot the shot in front of me.

. After playing for about 6 hours for the first time in years, I felt like I had reconnected with an old friend...My cue.

Got link or title for video critical of the HAMB method of instruction?

a clip from a pod cast of an instructor discussing the hit a million balls theory being incorrect.

 

[ShootingArts]

I had a table in my living room. I also had a hallway with a door on each end of it going into the living room. The bathroom was at one end of that hall, the kitchen and TV at the other end. I made a decision to go through the living room when I had to go past it, and to shoot at least one rack of balls every time I went through there. That meant a rack coming and a rack going. I shot off at least several dozen racks a day. It worked! I would do something similar with your table in the garage.

How to learn is an interesting thing and no doubt isn't the same for everybody. The hit a million balls, long term repetition works. Probably not the easiest or quickest way though.

However, I have noticed another issue. I never crammed for tests but I knew a lot of people that did. Just for grins I tried cramming for some certification tests. I found that cramming for a test would get me past the test but I didn't retain the knowledge. Studying over time I learned the material and still retained the knowledge months and years later.

The numbers in testing seems to be fifteen or twenty minutes of learning, five to ten minutes of rest or distraction not involving mental exercise for maximum speed of learning. Old information, I don't know if the same numbers are still claimed.

With a table sitting there I would work out three or four things I want to work on at the moment. Don't spend more than fifteen or twenty minutes on one thing, then take a break. Five or ten minutes. Do something else. Break. One quarter to one third of your time sitting in a chair resting will show bigger gains than six or eight hour blocks of time on the table.

Another huge thing that I have problems with, have fun! Any time something becomes work you start resisting, at least mentally. Maybe mentally and physically.

Anything you want to compete at, even informally, should first of all be fun. I am competitive by nature and have started many activities for fun then got so involved competing I forgot to have fun. I started finishing my practice with a pistol with a "mad minute" actually twelve seconds or so. Fifteen rounds center, speed reload, fifteen rounds head of a B-27 target. It was good practice but more importantly it is fun to rip up a new target rapid fire with a .45. With pool I did something similar to speed pool. Move around the table rapidly, plant and fire. Sometimes I fired as I was planting, sometimes afterwards. My stance had to be aligned right, there was no second chance!

Hu

 

[Frosty]

Have you played a lot of stakes matches that only lasted a 1/2 hour? Not a gambler, ok, have you played a lot of tournament matches that only lasted a 1/2 hour?

My point is, if said instructor states most average people lose focus after 1/2 hour, making further table time useless, then how do you propose to ever become a good player or do well in Action or Tournament matches that are longer than that?

To do battle, and succeed in battle, one must prepare for battle

 

[straightline]

You need to have work that will take hours a day. IOW knowledge and commensurate ability. You then break that down into smaller steps which you take at a comfortable pace. Anything over what you actually needed is a waste. Not scaling your total time is a waste. Not improving is a waste. etc...

 

[shag_fu]

I think this concept applies to learning new skills like static drills. I do this when I’m working on a specific shot or position. It’s not a replacement for match play though. You still need to incorporate long sessions with an opponent to develop stamina.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DrCue'sProtege]

A ton of top level players will probably tell you they got to be outstanding players by practing 6-8 hours a day.

I doubt they did that in 30 minute increments.

This nonsense that you lose focus after 30 minutes is ridiculous.

 

[HawaiianEye]

The HAMB concept comes with lots of hours and years of playing.

Once you have reached a level where you have made pretty much every shot on the table hundreds and hundreds of times, you have the physical aspect figured out and only need short "tune-ups" or "warm ups" to get back to your normal level of playing.

At that point, 99% of the things you screw up come from a loss of focus in your mind, not your stroke.

 

[couldnthinkof01]

How long are you at the table during a tournament or gambling session before you take a "break" for your opponent to play?

During a race to say 5, how long are you actually shooting continuously without a break?

How many matches do you play in a day during tournament play?

If the tournament is a race to 5. Total time is what 45 min to an hour, your actual time at the table is less than half of that most likely.
And that includes "breaks" for your opponent to play.

Friday- Sunday tournaments, if you win, are about 9 matches. 2ish on Friday, 5 Saturday, 2ish on Sunday.
On the longest day your max table time would be around 100-150 minutes with many, many "breaks"

If you can hold full focus for 30 minutes in one to two practice sessions most days, you'll probably be doing just fine.

Building bad habits won't help you.

 

[mareh]

Is focus a thing that can be trained?

 

[ShootingArts]

Have you played a lot of stakes matches that only lasted a 1/2 hour? Not a gambler, ok, have you played a lot of tournament matches that only lasted a 1/2 hour?

My point is, if said instructor states most average people lose focus after 1/2 hour, making further table time useless, then how do you propose to ever become a good player or do well in Action or Tournament matches that are longer than that?

To do battle, and succeed in battle, one must prepare for battle

The real issue is that you have built a straw man to do battle with. I don't know of any instructor who limits their lessons to thirty minutes or says that further table time is useless.

Is focus a thing that can be trained?

Some are trying to consider focus like a finite and solid mass. Focus is fluid. It is also to a large degree trainable. Consider the focus of a chess master. They aren't born with that level of focus.

I suspect there are free things on the net to increase focus, used to be anyway.

A ton of top level players will probably tell you they got to be outstanding players by practing 6-8 hours a day.

I doubt they did that in 30 minute increments.

This nonsense that you lose focus after 30 minutes is ridiculous.

Nobody is saying that you lose every bit of focus but you certainly can't produce the same level of focus for sixty minutes that you can produce for sixty seconds.

Hu

 

[trob]

Anything you want to compete at, even informally, should first of all be fun. I am competitive by nature and have started many activities for fun then got so involved competing I forgot to have fun. I started finishing my practice with a pistol with a "mad minute" actually twelve seconds or so. Fifteen rounds center, speed reload, fifteen rounds head of a B-27 target. It was good practice but more importantly it is fun to rip up a new target rapid fire with a .45. With pool I did something similar to speed pool. Move around the table rapidly, plant and fire. Sometimes I fired as I was planting, sometimes afterwards. My stance had to be aligned right, there was no second chance!

Hu

Good point here.. I’m a strong amateur but I never just set out to be good at pool. I love the game. Playing every day is my favorite part of my day. Becoming as good as I can at the game is a great feeling because first and foremost I love this game.

Something I didn’t consider with 30 mins practice is how important it is for things to become 2nd nature . The more you do without thought the better you’ll play in my opinion. Does that make it more difficult if you are only play 30 mins a day.

 

[Island Drive]

I was watching clips on my phone and they showed a clip from a pod cast of an instructor discussing the hit a million balls theory being incorrect. He said when Efren was asked how much he practices he said only a half at a time. If he practices in the morning he will again in the afternoon and that’s it. This instructor said it makes sense because if you have long practices the average person will lose focus and that’s when bad habits will sink back in and then frustration. He tells his students to go 4-6 weeks where they are only practicing 30 mins a day and they see real progress. So my personal thinking is

1) As I’ve said many time I don’t like to compare what I do or the equipment I use to the best players in the world. They have more natural ability then I do so comparing yourself to the goat just seems like stinkin thinkin. Svb is known to shoot the same shot for hours upon hours upon hours but I think he is born with a concentration and focus the average person may not possess.

2) but I think for some of it stands out. I try to now take a little break. I tend to play a race against the ghost then stroke drills. Then another race and then more stroke drills. Lately I’ve been throwing some straight pool in there because of an upcoming league but just taking 5 mins to rest in between .. whether it’s watching tv or looking at my phone for a bit seems to keep my concentration at a higher level for practice longer.

I love the game to much and with a diamond table in my garage (it’s like having a mountain of crack in your house and telling a crack head not to touch it.) I’m going to struggle only playing a half hour a day lol

For me I have to have something to give me a reason to not want to miss.
In college we'd play nickle/dime/quarter nine ball.
If I won enough to eat for the day I was satisfied, we played with the weaker players that had some money.
If there's no Cost to your mistakes, then learning doesn't come as quickly as it should from my position.

 

[Frosty]

The real issue is that you have built a straw man to do battle with. I don't know of any instructor who limits their lessons to thirty minutes or says that further table time is useless.

Hu

Actually, I built no straw man Hu. My reply that you quote is in response to the original post of the thread where the OP spoke of a podcast where he said an instructor stated this. That players should only practice 30 mins. at a time, as that is the range of focus for the average individual.

I don’t know of an instructors that advocate this either, and the original post didn’t name the instructor on the podcast.

You’re a veteran of action, as am I, and we both know that in serious action, sessions can go anywhere from a couple of hours to a couple of days. Also that any hope to do well in these matches is dependent on being to able to grind it out. While I’ve never been a tournament player, the rigors of tournament play and to do well is based upon the same thing, to be able to maintain your focus and thereby your full abilities to be successful in that arena.

The point of my post is to state that to be able to do that, you have to prepare for that. Everyone is different, but every great player I’ve ever known had a period of their life of being totally immersed in the sport, with long sessions of practice and matches that developed the skills that made them great.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

“Hit a million balls” doesn’t mean “each practice session”. You can do both.

pj
chgo

 

[Zerksies]

30 minutes of good practice can do way better then HAMB. My stroke is a little off right now from HAMB and i could use a good 30 minute session to get back inline.

 

[mikemosconi]

Age and experience play a big factor in practice times. As one ages I see that both physical and mental abilities to have longer meaningful practice sessions will diminish .

Younger players can withstand longer solo practice sessions and will need longer tournament or other competitive sessions to acquire needed experience to improve.

Older very experienced players usually cannot function too well in long solo sessions and probably start to diminish their long competitive sessions as well.

Some pros spend hours a day practicing into
Their 50s , and others - who were highly skilled at a young age do not do much solo practice once they hit their 30s - if still active competitively.
I knew Mike Zuglan at age 35 - he was still a top threat on a given day to any pro and in 14.1 he was just about as good as the best and he told me that he no longer practiced solo .

 

[trob]

Age and experience play a big factor in practice times. As one ages I see that both physical and mental abilities to have longer meaningful practice sessions will diminish .

Younger players can withstand longer solo practice sessions and will need longer tournament or other competitive sessions to acquire needed experience to improve.

Older very experienced players usually cannot function too well in long solo sessions and probably start to diminish their long competitive sessions as well.

Some pros spend hours a day practicing into
Their 50s , and others - who were highly skilled at a young age do not do much solo practice once they hit their 30s - if still active competitively.
I knew Mike Zuglan at age 35 - he was still a top threat on a given day to any pro and in 14.1 he was just about as good as the best and he told me that he no longer practiced solo .

I can tell you this my tournament days are slim .. I have 0 interest spending my saturday or sunday sitting in a bar waiting to play all day. If you go deep or win it your there for 12 plus hours. Those days have passed me by lol

 

[Frosty]

Older very experienced players usually cannot function too well in long solo sessions and probably start to diminish their long competitive sessions as well.

It really depends on the individual, I’m in my late 60’s, generally playing at least 5 days a week, 4 days at the very least. I have access to the Hall I play whenever I want, I have a key and alarm code. I don’t really have “practice days”, I stay in action.

I do generally arrive about 2 hours ahead of my match for the day and after setting up, spend the remaining time playing short rack banks by myself to get my arm warm and tune in my stroke as I believe banks is a game of different strokes, and I’ve never been a drill type of guy. Then my match sessions generally last 4-8 hours, depending on my opponent and the game we’re playing. Sometimes if it’s only 4 hours for the session, I’ll rustle up another match with someone else. Generally 8-10 hours a day, the days I play.

Now I don’t have bad habits like drugs, alcohol, etc, but I do smoke. My stamina hasn’t really waned over the years, perhaps it’s because I love the game and the action. What I really believe though is that the more I keep moving, the better I feel.

 

[Island Drive]

To get better there has to be a cost when you lose.
If such grinds your grits that's a good thing because you care.
Just hitting balls will never develop a mindset that's created.... Like when you lose it & takes something outta yah and yah don't like it.
Land of hard knocks.