i'm hoping for a solid hitt cue so i recently bought the 314 shaft to go with my lucasi LE-40 cue. i read somewhere on this site that the Aegis ferrule is a good replacement for the original ferrule that's on the 314. i'm worried about fit and finish of this ferrule because i've had many people mention that it doesn't fit "perfectly." as for the tip, i'm going to be using a moori hard. so let me know what you guys think about the ferrule and tip. i used to play with a moori medium and it's a tad bit on the soft side for me.
314 shaft, ferrule, tip?
- Thread starter meterpai
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The soft ferrule is part of the Predator design, If you change the ferrule to Aegis or something else, it will definately hit different and it will also add deflection.
Or if you have the work done by someone who knows what they are doing...you also run the risk of it "hitting much better" and "play even better". Not everyone preaches from the Predator "how to install a cheap plastic ferrule" bible.
Mr. Webb does excellent work, but he has to do it the way Predator tells him to...on their shafts.
Mr. Webb does excellent work, but he has to do it the way Predator tells him to...on their shafts.
![ra[g]e](/data/avatars/m/6/6583.jpg?1603927368){kind=avatar}
If you notice how the Predator shafts are constructed, the first thing you will notice immediately is the shorter ferrule.
Shorter ferrules with lighter materials mean a lower mass at the front end, resulting in lower deflection.
Its actually pretty dumb to change the ferrule of a Predator shaft to a heavier one, since you're actually increasing the deflection.
If you really like ivory ferrules, etc, get a normal shaft?
Shorter ferrules with lighter materials mean a lower mass at the front end, resulting in lower deflection.
Its actually pretty dumb to change the ferrule of a Predator shaft to a heavier one, since you're actually increasing the deflection.
If you really like ivory ferrules, etc, get a normal shaft?
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Varney Cues said:
Should I?.......Maybe,
Could I?.........You bet your biscuits.
Will I?............Why bother.
I swapped out a predator ferrule on my personal shaft as an experiment 6 or 7 years ago. I think at the time I was using Ivorine 3 for ferrule replacements, so that is the material I used. I was not completely familiar with the ferrule design, so I cut very slowly to make sure I only cut the ferrule off, without damaging the thin walled tenon. I then machined a ferrule to fit precisely over the tenon, keeping all of the dimensions of the original design, just in a different material.
The cue played fine, but the deflection was obviously increased.
The whole point of the Predator shaft is to minimize deflection. Why would someone buy this shaft and then increase the deflection? Why not just get a conventional shaft with their preferred ferrule material in that case?
The cue played fine, but the deflection was obviously increased.
The whole point of the Predator shaft is to minimize deflection. Why would someone buy this shaft and then increase the deflection? Why not just get a conventional shaft with their preferred ferrule material in that case?
First of all...iusedtoberich...I don't know what kind of cue repair you do for yourself, but there is no tenon on a 314...NONE. There is a hollow spot where the tenon should be. You simply slipped a ferrule over a VERY thin part of the recessed shaft wall. That is a horrible set up...you did nothing to improve it. I'm curious what the reading was on your deflection meter since "it was obviously increased"! LOL you expert!!!
Sometimes I think I should save my breath & knowledge for those who are worthy.
This was just gone over in another thread...complete with pics...search function works well.
For the last time...I've changed the crap plastic ferrules out on many 314 shafts. Many are for pros...many you've seen on TV. Always...after I do one...then they hit some balls...they say "here do all my 314 shafts...please". These are people who play for a living. If I was screwing up the playability, they would NOT keep returning for more. I have yet to have one single customer say that they didn't like it...period. In fact I have a incredible amount of players who come to me when they get a new 314 shaft and say "work your magic"...they want me to correct the shaft before they will ever play with it. Not one single player has ever said "damn Kevin my shaft is deflecting more now"...not one, zero, nada!
I can play with any shaft I desire...mine is a 314 that's been switched to Aegis with a Sniper. Bottom line...if you think that by threading in a tenon and then threading a QUALITY ferrule onto the tenon will cause you to miss balls and you'd be better off with a cheap melting plastic ferrule slipped over a hollow spot...then you my friend have bought totally into marketing hype. Be sure not to miss Predator Bible study next Sunday...the topic is "why my tiny 11mm Z makes me a champion"....yeah right!!!
Sometimes I think I should save my breath & knowledge for those who are worthy.
This was just gone over in another thread...complete with pics...search function works well.
For the last time...I've changed the crap plastic ferrules out on many 314 shafts. Many are for pros...many you've seen on TV. Always...after I do one...then they hit some balls...they say "here do all my 314 shafts...please". These are people who play for a living. If I was screwing up the playability, they would NOT keep returning for more. I have yet to have one single customer say that they didn't like it...period. In fact I have a incredible amount of players who come to me when they get a new 314 shaft and say "work your magic"...they want me to correct the shaft before they will ever play with it. Not one single player has ever said "damn Kevin my shaft is deflecting more now"...not one, zero, nada!
I can play with any shaft I desire...mine is a 314 that's been switched to Aegis with a Sniper. Bottom line...if you think that by threading in a tenon and then threading a QUALITY ferrule onto the tenon will cause you to miss balls and you'd be better off with a cheap melting plastic ferrule slipped over a hollow spot...then you my friend have bought totally into marketing hype. Be sure not to miss Predator Bible study next Sunday...the topic is "why my tiny 11mm Z makes me a champion"....yeah right!!!
Varney Cues said:
With all due respect, if you increase the end mass of the shaft, you will increase the deflection of the 314 (or any other shaft). That is just how the physics work.
Having said that, I don't see that a low deflection shaft is much more than marketing hype. Even the best of them reduce deflection by less than 25%, according to this page.
Varney Cues said:
I don't get it, if these pros are asking you to rebuild their predator shafts and your work is so good, why aren't they asking YOU to build a shaft/cue for them?
Please kindly name the pros who I see on TV that go to you for a ferrule change. If you aren't able to, please stop reiterating something you cannot justify.Varney Cues said:
Note that 7 years ago, the older versions of 314 shafts may actually have tenons.
It is simple physics that putting on a ferrule with a higher mass will increase deflection. If a cue builder is unable to understand simple physics, I will question his competence in understanding cue engineering.
Increasing the deflection on a low deflection shaft is dumb.
Alex Lely, Gerda Hofstatter and Charlie Williams use that tiny Z shaft you were talking about, and I'm willing to bet that they did not change their ferrules.
i have seen a few 314 shafts owned by close friends with ferrules that are coned in or has cracked. so the aegis ferrule is my idea of prevention for these two unfortunate situation. my main and original objective was to get rid of the POS le pro tip. lots of people seem to be against the aegis tip due to weight issue. any recomendation? thanks for all of the replies so far.
peter
peter
Dude, please do save your breath. If people wanted to read egotistical & self serving commentaries, they would go to RSB. Only thing anyone reads from your posts is how great you are, or at least think you are.Varney Cues said:
Promise?Varney Cues said:
Name one please. Unless it might violate his/her agreement with a sponsor of course.Varney Cues said:
It's painfully obvious that you need work, otherwise you wouldn't be in this forum trying to round some up. Why not call one of your Pro friends...Maybe they can toss you a small crumb or two.
Peter, If you're not happy with the LePro tip, simply get it changed. If you or friends have a cracked ferrule on a Predator shaft, call them or an authorized repair station and inquire as to whether or not it's covered under their warranty (I believe it is). Start messing around changing out the ferrule and you'll find yourself in a "not covered under warranty" situation, not to mention the shaft not performing as it was designed to (regardless of what some will say).meterpai said:
I'm not really a fan of the 314s, but, it has been engineered, studied, & tested (both under a controlled environment and in the field). The final fact is, it does work!
TellsItLikeItIs said:
I was in a similar situation - ferrule on 314 cracked from top to bottom after about two weeks of play with it (disclaimer - I was breaking with it. Bad idea). I was impatient to get it fixed and instead of sending it back to Predator, I had a local cue-fixer-guy pal replace the ferrule - not knowing about the difference in the Predator ferrule over a 'normal' one. Now I'm stuck with the normal ferrule with a dowel in it, instead of the shaft being as designed. Predator won't fix it, as it's been monkeyed with.
If this happens to you, don't be impatient about getting it fixed - send it to Predator or find an authorized repair guy, and have them do it.
You certainly didn't have to be so condesending in your post. I certainly wasn't towards you.
That aside, I do remember you posting a few pictures a month or so back regarding the predator ferrules. From what I remember seeing, it was difficult to see how they looked in cross-section and how they mounted on the cue. That information is difficult to see in a picture of just the ferrule. So, I have spent the last 15 minutes making a quick 3-
D model of the predator cue "as I remember it 6 or 7 years ago". Please let me know if my 3-D model is accurate. And if it is accurate, than I wouldn't know what else one could possibly call the feature in the picture that I have labeled "tenon". If the design has changed from what I have shown here, then what I did years ago would not be applicable to the current shafts.
As far as a deflection meter, I doubt more than a handfull, if any, of the smaller cuemakers have any equipment to measure deflection. I only do repairs, and I ceratinly don't have the equipment. I set up the same inside english 2 rail shot that I am very comfortable making. I try this same shot with any cue I am comparing deflection. I would bet that most PLAYERS do the same thing, as they don't have accesss to any defleciton testing machines either.
Thank you.
That aside, I do remember you posting a few pictures a month or so back regarding the predator ferrules. From what I remember seeing, it was difficult to see how they looked in cross-section and how they mounted on the cue. That information is difficult to see in a picture of just the ferrule. So, I have spent the last 15 minutes making a quick 3-
D model of the predator cue "as I remember it 6 or 7 years ago". Please let me know if my 3-D model is accurate. And if it is accurate, than I wouldn't know what else one could possibly call the feature in the picture that I have labeled "tenon". If the design has changed from what I have shown here, then what I did years ago would not be applicable to the current shafts.
As far as a deflection meter, I doubt more than a handfull, if any, of the smaller cuemakers have any equipment to measure deflection. I only do repairs, and I ceratinly don't have the equipment. I set up the same inside english 2 rail shot that I am very comfortable making. I try this same shot with any cue I am comparing deflection. I would bet that most PLAYERS do the same thing, as they don't have accesss to any defleciton testing machines either.
Thank you.
Varney Cues said:
Attachments
OK here we go:
bruin70...I agree Aegis is very hard. But you can no longer buy Grice. The solution is to have the tenon come completely through the ferrule and not use the capped version (if you want a softer hit anyway).
Steve...I play with a 314 because like I said in another thread I made my current cue with it and an X shaft to give the lam shafts a trial for once. Are they better? Don't ask me. Why don't you ask the Fury sponsored pro girls there in your office who use them on their Fury cues.
ra[g]e...just how much cash would you like to wager that Gerda is currently playing with a Z? Better get your facts straight before you get busted. She hated it & went back to the 314 a while ago. I'm under no obligation to name any names to you sir. If you know some pros...ask a few. Exactly how much end mass do you think a 3/4in aegis ferrule drilled 5/16 completely through with a 2in maple tenon adds? I just weighed them...they weigh...are you paying attention...0.1oz. Thats not adding ANY end mass!!! Next time question someone else's competence. Its called an upgrade, that actually hits better, without the problem of the factory ferrule MELTING into a cone.
Peter...be glad to fix yours for FREE...then you give a review. Fair enough?
TellItLikeItIs...I'm not hiding behind any forum name as you are. If you have so many bad things to say about me...feel free to pm me your real name & address. I travel often and would love to discuss it with you face to face like a man. I could always offer a free jump/break cue to the first person who pm's me with your info...someone knows. I'll give you the chance first...
Edited to add...and you guys wonder why more pros or quality people with knowledge will not post on AZB. Hell some people even tried to run Grady off. I was warned to save my time...maybe I should of listened. Truth is though...I've made a few new friends here that are stand up people. I'll not let a small % discourage me.
bruin70...I agree Aegis is very hard. But you can no longer buy Grice. The solution is to have the tenon come completely through the ferrule and not use the capped version (if you want a softer hit anyway).
Steve...I play with a 314 because like I said in another thread I made my current cue with it and an X shaft to give the lam shafts a trial for once. Are they better? Don't ask me. Why don't you ask the Fury sponsored pro girls there in your office who use them on their Fury cues.
ra[g]e...just how much cash would you like to wager that Gerda is currently playing with a Z? Better get your facts straight before you get busted. She hated it & went back to the 314 a while ago. I'm under no obligation to name any names to you sir. If you know some pros...ask a few. Exactly how much end mass do you think a 3/4in aegis ferrule drilled 5/16 completely through with a 2in maple tenon adds? I just weighed them...they weigh...are you paying attention...0.1oz. Thats not adding ANY end mass!!! Next time question someone else's competence. Its called an upgrade, that actually hits better, without the problem of the factory ferrule MELTING into a cone.
Peter...be glad to fix yours for FREE...then you give a review. Fair enough?
TellItLikeItIs...I'm not hiding behind any forum name as you are. If you have so many bad things to say about me...feel free to pm me your real name & address. I travel often and would love to discuss it with you face to face like a man. I could always offer a free jump/break cue to the first person who pm's me with your info...someone knows. I'll give you the chance first...
Edited to add...and you guys wonder why more pros or quality people with knowledge will not post on AZB. Hell some people even tried to run Grady off. I was warned to save my time...maybe I should of listened. Truth is though...I've made a few new friends here that are stand up people. I'll not let a small % discourage me.
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iusedtoberich...
To you sir, I apologize. You indeed seem to be a gentleman. Very nice work up and quite accurate too. What you have labeled a "tenon" is not. It is simply a recessed part of the shaft wall. And it actually does a very good job of showing just how thin the wood is thats holding on the ferrule. Thats why multiple people experience problems when they break with theirs. A shaft tenon is a solid piece normally, 1/4in. or 5/16in. that protrudes from the center of the shaft. It can be of the same wood as the shaft or often cuemakers like to thread in their own with the belief that it makes the cue "hit" better.
To you sir, I apologize. You indeed seem to be a gentleman. Very nice work up and quite accurate too. What you have labeled a "tenon" is not. It is simply a recessed part of the shaft wall. And it actually does a very good job of showing just how thin the wood is thats holding on the ferrule. Thats why multiple people experience problems when they break with theirs. A shaft tenon is a solid piece normally, 1/4in. or 5/16in. that protrudes from the center of the shaft. It can be of the same wood as the shaft or often cuemakers like to thread in their own with the belief that it makes the cue "hit" better.
Varney Cues said:
Kevin,
I asked a simple question. I thought it a little unusual for a cue maker of your stature to make the statement that you shoot with a 314, rather than your own product. You didn't say you were doing it as a test...you said your playing cue had a Predator shaft. Obviously, if you shoot with one, you must think it is superior to what you can make. If it isn't, you would probably have made your own shaft to shoot with. When asked if one was better than the other, you say "Don't ask me". Why not? You are the one who is shooting with it. You say you are testing it...what are the results of the test? Or should I ask someone else?
Nice little jab you got in there on the Team Fury players...but then after the zinger you put up about Wayne Holmes, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
How many one piece cues have you bought, cut in half and put in a joint system and sold as a custom sneaky pete?
Steve
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