...

"Those guys" whose names are on the cover of WOP didn't write either of those books! Eddie Robin did. And he is NOT the One Pocket player that Tom Wirth is, not even close. Eddie was a chronicler of information provided by some very good players. Tom writes from his own experience and knowledge, and that's what separates these two guys in my mind. He doesn't need anyone's endorsement to make his book valuable. What makes CA valuable is the content. Eddie, on the other hand, would have nothing to say without the input from the players he interviewed.

Both men did a good job at what they set out to do and it remains to be seen how the value of CA will be affected when the day comes that you can't buy them any more. There were only about 1,000 each of WOP and SMS ever printed and that more than anything else helped drive the value up when they were no longer readily available. For the first few years of their release you could buy either one for $42. By comparison, CA at $50 is the more valuable book. If and when Tom ever stops publishing them (maybe a 1,000 sold so far), the price of ownership will certainly increase. As someone else said on here, buying a couple of dozen of them might be a good investment.

Thankfully there's a lot of good stuff out there on One Pocket, both books and DVD's. Robin's two books and Wirth's are certainly three of the best.


I’m well aware they didn’t write the books. But their insights on the shot layouts constitute a significant portion of those book’s content. That’s what I was referring to.

All the books are of value, including Jack Koehler’s “Upscale One-Pocket.” I just personally prefer to read the opinions of five champions, as edited by ER, than getting one guy’s take. For unknown reasons some folks have a problem with someone else having a different opinion than their own. You like tomato, I like tomahto.

Lou Figueroa
with apologies to
the Gershwins
 
Those who contributed to WOP and SMS were champions. Early on I was asked by ER to contribute a shot or two but never got around to it. I wish that I had. And what kind of shot do you think I would have chosen to present? Given this opportunity don't you think I would have offered up a shot something similar to one from my collection of videos? Of course I would. You will find in both of ER's books a lot of flash mixed with a lot of sound thinking. I want those of you who own a copy of either of these books to take a look at the scenarios presented in WOP, "Shots from the past" and tell me truly, are many of these situations and solutions typically what you would expect to find in the course of a game? Are these solutions shots you would feel comfortable playing? I put it to you that most of the shots these champions offered were rather flashy examples, personally motivated by a desire to demonstrate how imaginative the shooter could be, and why wouldn't they? If this was their intention they succeed admirably. I do the same thing with my videos. I try to present interesting situations and shots for their entertainment value but also to encourage the viewer to attempt expanding their One Pocket imaginations. The reality is quite different. Much of the time taking a simple approach to the situation is the better approach. Jay H. suggested, much can be accomplished by rolling the cue ball off another ball and hiding the cue ball behind something. He is right! You won't see much of that in the illustrations ER presents in either WOP or SMS. Why, it looks boring, but it can be as effective as any flashy shot you see in ER's books or in my videos.

Don't get me wrong here. I don't mean to criticize ER's books.These books did wonders to help promote One Pocket. They helped expose the game's wonders for all to see. They are filled with insightful information useful to any reader interested in learning about this game. They are not all flashy shots. There is a wealth of good solid information within those pages. Still, it was my opinion then as it is now that these books do not present as solid a foundation for learning this game as the student needs. More often than not it is the game within the game that must be firmly understood. How should you manage to "Get the first shot" how should you decide which option is the best, and then, once a good scoring opportunity arises, "how should you manage the rack so as to score heavily during that one inning"? Possessing a steady and sound understanding of the needs of the moment is the key. This is where I believe ER left room for expansion. This was my goal in writing "Controlled Aggression". As the title implies, Strive to find an aggressively offense shot but temper this desire with common sense, and if need be, prepare to turn that aggressive nature of yours in reverse and survive with defensive until the proper, aggressive opportunity returns. These are the weapons I teach throughout my book. I do this with every page, explaining my reasoning as I go along. I provide many basic examples with which to begin this process, taking into consideration, skill level and the score of the game as just two of the many factors involved in formulating a decision. From these examples variations can then be recognized and the solutions then become commonplace. In this way you can begin to see patterns develop and quickly recognize how to exploit the various situations.

WOP and SMS only go so far in teaching the theory behind the game. I felt there was a need to expand on this area. Hence, my book. Maybe someone else will come along and take what I have endeavored to teach and expand further. I welcome that contribution. There is much to learn about this great game and there is plenty of room for those with the knowledge to teach what they have gathered throughout their careers. Volumes of helpful information to any would be One Pocket player is waiting to be written. Good information is just that and it does not matter a lick where it comes from. If it is sound advice. If it makes sense. If it helps to improve your understanding of the subject, than it is worthwhile information.

Thank you,

Tom
 
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IMO, the best way to learn 1pocket, other than playing it competitively as much as you can, is to see/read/hear the opinions of as many different players as you can. I often learn different, interesting, and effective shots and strategies by playing the widest variety of players available to me. Players at different rooms and from different parts of the country, as well as from different eras, have differing styles that can be highly educational.

When I think back to my first days learning 1pocket, two of the most useful things to me were “Winning One Pocket” and its companion “Shots Moves & Strategies” because they present a wide array of solutions to a single solitary problem. That’s gold.

The other was watching Accu-Stats videos ((back in the day). With those you could not only see what the player ultimately decided to do, you got the added benefit of hearing what were typically two very knowledgeable players in the booth offering additional alternatives. And of those, the best were when you had a commentary team with diametrically opposing styles bickering in the booth, such as Grady and Billy. That was platinum.

So give me variety any day of the week and twice on Sunday when it comes to learning 1pocket.

You like potato, I like potatoe.

Lou Figueroa
 
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Lou, I have no problem with that at all, but tell me this. Doesn't my book provide that much more variety? Why make comparisons at all? Don't you agree there is room for more insightful information than just ER's contributions? Personally, I welcome the next great book on the subject.

Tom
 
Those who contributed to WOP and SMS were champions. Early on I was asked by ER to contribute a shot or two but never got around to it. I wish that I had. And what kind of shot do you think I would have chosen to present? Given this opportunity don't you think I would have offered up a shot something similar to one from my collection of videos? Of course I would. You will find in both of ER's books a lot of flash mixed with a lot of sound thinking. I want those of you who own a copy of either of these books to take a look at the scenarios presented in WOP, "Shots from the past" and tell me truly, are many of these situations and solutions typically what you would expect to find in the course of a game? Are these solutions shots you would feel comfortable playing? I put it to you that most of the shots these champions offered were rather flashy examples, personally motivated by a desire to demonstrate how imaginative the shooter could be, and why wouldn't they? If this was their intention they succeed admirably. I do the same thing with my videos. I try to present interesting situations and shots for their entertainment value but also to encourage the viewer to attempt expanding their One Pocket imaginations. The reality is quite different. Much of the time taking a simple approach to the situation is the better approach. Jay H. suggested, much can be accomplished by rolling the cue ball off another ball and hiding the cue ball behind something. He is right! You won't see much of that in the illustrations ER presents in either WOP or SMS. Why, it looks boring, but it can be as effective as any flashy shot you see in ER's books or in my videos.

Don't get me wrong here. I don't mean to criticize ER's books.These books did wonders to help promote One Pocket. They helped expose the game's wonders for all to see. They are filled with insightful information useful to any reader interested in learning about this game. They are not all flashy shots. There is a wealth of good solid information within those pages. Still, it was my opinion then as it is now that these books do not present as solid a foundation for learning this game as the student needs. More often than not it is the game within the game that must be firmly understood. How should you manage to "Get the first shot" how should you decide which option is the best, and then, once a good scoring opportunity arises, "how should you manage the rack so as to score heavily during that one inning"? Possessing a steady and sound understanding of the needs of the moment is the key. This is where I believe ER left room for expansion. This was my goal in writing "Controlled Aggression". As the title implies, Strive to find an aggressively offense shot but temper this desire with common sense, and if need be, prepare to turn that aggressive nature of yours in reverse and survive with defensive until the proper, aggressive opportunity returns. These are the weapons I teach throughout my book. I do this with every page, explaining my reasoning as I go along. I provide many basic examples with which to begin this process, taking into consideration, skill level and the score of the game as just two of the many factors involved in formulating a decision. From these examples variations can then be recognized and the solutions then become commonplace. In this way you can begin to see patterns develop and quickly recognize how to exploit the various situations.

WOP and SMS only go so far in teaching the theory behind the game. I felt there was a need to expand on this area. Hence, my book. Maybe someone else will come along and take what I have endeavored to teach and expand further. I welcome that contribution. There is much to learn about this great game and there is plenty of room for those with the knowledge to teach what they have gathered throughout their careers. Volumes of helpful information to any would be One Pocket player is waiting to be written. Good information is just that and it does not matter a lick where it comes from. If it is sound advice. If it makes sense. If it helps to improve your understanding of the subject, than it is worthwhile information.

Thank you,

Tom

Your sales and review feedback define Controlled Aggression. Not owning a copy is to be missing out on the best of what has to be offered. CA is on a page of it’s own. It is the OneBook to own. You are the OneGuy to know. Let the great book debate continue. The only thing better than your book is personal instruction from you.
 
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Lou, I have no problem with that at all, but tell me this. Doesn't my book provide that much more variety? Why make comparisons at all? Don't you agree there is room for more insightful information than just ER's contributions? Personally, I welcome the next great book on the subject.

Tom


Tom, yes, of course your book adds to the variety of knowledge and insight on 1pocket. And yes again, there’s plenty of room for more info.

As to comparisons of different books, that’s where the discussion went. I entered the conversation just agreeing with AL about liking WOP. I didn’t mention your book and also said that my comment was not meant as a slight to any other author.

But then others in the thread turned the discussion towards the relative merits of various books. In any case, it’s a valid topic for polite discussion and there’s no harm in people liking different books more than others.

Lou Figueroa
 
In any case, it’s a valid topic for polite discussion and there’s no harm in people liking different books more than others.

Lou Figueroa

Totally agree on your comment. Can I ask what you have learned from CA. Please do not compare it to anything else. Let's simply review CA. So far it is batting 1000.Would you rate it a 10?
 
Totally agree on your comment. Can I ask what you have learned from CA. Please do not compare it to anything else. Let's simply review CA. So far it is batting 1000.Would you rate it a 10?


lol, naw, I ain’t doin’ that.

Lou Figueroa
 
lol, naw, I ain’t doin’ that.

Lou Figueroa

No agenda on my end. Just keeping a barroom discussion ongoing. I think I mentioned I do not have WOP SMS. Maybe I’ll buy them someday. Upscale 1p did nothing for me in the beginning. But it mentions a lighter cue hits better. ?????? That’s instructional? Looked at the book years later and still not for me. Grady’s videos ... good stuff but more of him demonstrating and commentating in a not so simply fashion and shots not practical for a beginner. And one of his videos begins with Buy a Predator cue...you’ll play better 1p. I realize someone has to pay the bills but that is very unprofessional. Scott Frost DVD’s...helpful/very good. I got a few things from it.
 
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lol. Thanks for the laugh — I’ll be chuckling about that one the rest of the afternoon.

Lou Figueroa

You’re good Lou ...you’re good. Glad I can bring some laughter into your life. Laugh and the world laughs with you. Cry and you cry alone. He who laughs last laughs the loudest. Enjoy the rest of the day. 8nOut my friend.
 
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Poor Marek, all he asked was an interesting set of questions on how to learn one pocket, and what he got was a shitstorm debate that hijacked his thread. Well done, lads.
 
Poor Marek, all he asked was an interesting set of questions on how to learn one pocket, and what he got was a shitstorm debate that hijacked his thread. Well done, lads.

I’ll take credit for adding to derailIing. I’ll man up and apologize for that.
Regardless good luck to the OP and welcome him to the world of 1p. It takes courage and commitment. Once the love is there the fun never ends. Every game is educational. The quest to improve keeps us driven. Learning requires playing, watching, reading, talking, patience, reviewing the past performance and keeping an open mind. Play within your limit but do not be limited. I feel a 1p player learns a lot about themselves. It would be a great thing if some of us lived closer and we could learn together. I have a neighbor that likes to start from the ground up. We start a game a practice the opening return. We discuss situations. We talk about how the situation should be executed. Our goal is to find various options. I appreciate the view of another player. It lets me confirm or rethink what I had in mind. I’m not an authority on 1p just a guy trying to learn. The key is get started.... never be complacent. Have fun and enjoy.
 
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Being from Europe I have a hard time finding anyone to play 1pocket with, learning any finer points of the game is virtually impossible unless some fine gentleman from US travels to Europe on vacation/job. Being decent 8/9/10/14.1 player I want to widen my horizons so to speak by learning the game of 1-pocket to some extent so I wouldnt humiliate myself if I happen to encounter true 1pckt player. I consider buying some instruction dvd, looking at seyberts.com I can see "Power 1pocket" and "Power 1pocket V2" from Freezer, also they have "Killer 1pocket" and "Finer points of 1pocket" from Profesor available.
Which one of those instructors would your recommend? Are Scott and Grady equally informative or is any of these guys superior to the other? Or any other dvd maybe?
The only one time I played 1pocket with true 1pckt player I won 3:2 when I was able to run 8-and-out and pulled off some crazy stuff about which my opponent said that I did watch too much of Tony Chohan vids ;) I was able to outshoot my opponent on pure firepower and some creative thinking but when it got to the moves he choked me like a python. So basically I want to get more knowledgable about the moves/tactics, about the break etc. so the next time i would be ready tactically.
Your suggestions?
Thank you

Apologies if this was already mentioned, I did not read the thread...

My favorite video for learning the moves in one pocket is an Accu-Stats match between Jimmy Fusco and Jim Rempe. It is commentated on by Freddie Bentivegna. Fusco knows all the moves, and Bentivegna does an excellent job of describing what Fusco is doing, and why. Its a great video to learn from. I'd buy that before any other match video or instructional video. YMMV:)
 
I'll probably get flamed for this one, but IMO, whatever your speed is in 9 ball (or whatever your main game is), will be your speed in one pocket, after playing it regularly for a few months. Knowledge will get you so far, but execution is still the top dog.

What that means is, to practice one pocket, get better at running 9 ball racks.

YMMV:)
 
My favorite video for learning the moves in one pocket is an Accu-Stats match between Jimmy Fusco and Jim Rempe.)

What are we getting... a disc, tape? How does this work. I never got anything from Accu-stats and I would like to view this match. Thanks for posting.
 
http://store.accu-stats.com/jimmy-f...991-legends-of-one-pocket-philadelphia-style/

This is the link. Its $10 for a dvd. I don't think these old matches are on accustats new vimeo site yet. Its a a jam up match and commentary to learn from. I like when bentivegna calls the balls soldiers... Enjoy!

Thank you...just ordered the dvd. The price with shipping is more than reasonable. I'll enjoy this. I'm from Phila and never saw Jimmy play. He was lengendary in the 60's.
 
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Being from Europe I have a hard time finding anyone to play 1pocket with, learning any finer points of the game is virtually impossible unless some fine gentleman from US travels to Europe on vacation/job. Being decent 8/9/10/14.1 player I want to widen my horizons so to speak by learning the game of 1-pocket to some extent so I wouldnt humiliate myself if I happen to encounter true 1pckt player. I consider buying some instruction dvd, looking at seyberts.com I can see "Power 1pocket" and "Power 1pocket V2" from Freezer, also they have "Killer 1pocket" and "Finer points of 1pocket" from Profesor available.
Which one of those instructors would your recommend? Are Scott and Grady equally informative or is any of these guys superior to the other? Or any other dvd maybe?
The only one time I played 1pocket with true 1pckt player I won 3:2 when I was able to run 8-and-out and pulled off some crazy stuff about which my opponent said that I did watch too much of Tony Chohan vids ;) I was able to outshoot my opponent on pure firepower and some creative thinking but when it got to the moves he choked me like a python. So basically I want to get more knowledgable about the moves/tactics, about the break etc. so the next time i would be ready tactically.
Your suggestions?
Thank you

So, to recap the long, winding discussion.

1. Frost's first set of power one pocket videos are very good.

2. Watching Accustats is great. Personally, I can't stand to watch the non-high def ones anymore, so I prefer the more recent ones.

3. Unless you plan to ever gamble with me, you should get and read Tom's Controlled Aggression book. No one book can be ideal for everyone and no one has any obligation to follow my advice, but the book sure impresses a lot of one pocket players of all levels. (PM me for details.)

I own WOP and SMS as well, but those are more collector's items for me. I take what I learn from CA into games more regularly.


Good luck!
 
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