i am sure it is plenty strong for ferrules,but it seems like there are some other glues that are less prone to cause glue lines.like Titebond wood glue or white Gorilla,etc that are still plenty strong for ferrules.as Dave said the glue is only really used to prevent unthreading.we were using System 3 and switched to G5 and it seems thinner to me,which i like for some things,but i would be leary of doing ferrules with it.
5 min epoxy
- Thread starter RocketQ
- Start date
IMHO you need to have the faces of the ferrule and shaft bonded or you will get a bad hitting cue...I discovered this with my personal cue...I noticed it was developing a "konk" like sound to it so after much inspection I noticed I could flex open a gap between the ferrule and shaft...I was able to rebond it with water thin superglue and the konk went away...now I watch this like a hawk when doing a new shaft...oh and I normally use epoxy on ferrules and coat all surfaces...BarenbruggeCues said:
Assuming you don't have a shoulder/register at the bottom of the ferrule's hole.Craig Fales said:
I leave a 3/16 long register/shoulder there. Ivor-X and melamine threaded ferrules come with unthreaded hole at the bottom.
For that face to have a gap, the glue would have to break and that the shoulder is no longer flush.
Craig Fales said:
I can understand where this may be a concern as a "konk" is not a pleasant thing to have!
However, if you have experienced this gap on a threaded ferrule I believe there may be a larger looming problem than glues.
on threaded ferrules I have no gaps, and the glue lines usually come out cleaner looking for me regardless of glue, but along the way I have seen a few things that can cause that, and the gap mentioned.
on the glue line- facing can have some effect as mentioned. If It tapers due to say tool push off for instance,then the glue line will be more defined looking. If that happens when facing for a tip, It can also cause tips to pop off left and right, because It allows for a rocking motion to get more leverage on the tip, making It easier for the glue bond to let go. I know that's a different thing, but the reason I mention It is because if someone was having problems with both senerios, then It may help figure out what's causing them. If that seems to be what's happening then I would say not only looking at the tool pushing off, but check to make sure the shaft isn't being pushed back into the jaws of the lathe, and away from the tool during facing. Sometimes if the tool starts getting dull, and the shaft isn't clamped in the jaws tight enough, It can taper the faces.
The gap could be caused from a few different things, at a minimum champering the ID of the ferrule should be done imo , or what joey mentioned, and actually having shoulder there instead. For added protection I like to use a deburing tool also. I have a carbide tool I use for that, and I just slightly debur the edge of the inside corner. That part really just helps more with glue lines though.
Another thing to watch for with the gaps is the tap. A bottoming tap does the best job, 5/16-18 is a standard thread so the are cheap and easy to obtain one. If a tapered tap is used, the end of the tenon needs to be tapered to match, or the end of the tenon won't bottom to the cap in the ferrule very easily, and even after the fact the internal stress created by not doing that or not using a bottom tap, could cause a gap to appear, or even cause a ferrule to loosen over time.
I agree, with what's been said about the type of glue, with a threaded ferrule It shouldn't really matter, all It needs to do is act as a thread locker. When I do a threaded ferrule I firmly believe It would hold for a while with no glue before loosening, but I don't seriously believe It would last the test of time like that, so I do use glue. I use to use epoxy, and It held great, but for years was told that was overkill, so I tried the titebond 2 that's waterproof, and have been using It most of the time since. No problems with any threaded ferrules coming loose. I think some types of ferrule material would break before the ferrule would loosen. In fact I've seen that happen.
I know a lot of people here know all this stuff, and It seems like Craig has been here long enough that I'm sure he does too, so He may have had a different issue. I'm just posting It in case It's of any use to the guys that are starting out, and may have not gone through the trial and error period yet. These are just a few issues that I can remember running into a time or 2 in the past.
Greg
on the glue line- facing can have some effect as mentioned. If It tapers due to say tool push off for instance,then the glue line will be more defined looking. If that happens when facing for a tip, It can also cause tips to pop off left and right, because It allows for a rocking motion to get more leverage on the tip, making It easier for the glue bond to let go. I know that's a different thing, but the reason I mention It is because if someone was having problems with both senerios, then It may help figure out what's causing them. If that seems to be what's happening then I would say not only looking at the tool pushing off, but check to make sure the shaft isn't being pushed back into the jaws of the lathe, and away from the tool during facing. Sometimes if the tool starts getting dull, and the shaft isn't clamped in the jaws tight enough, It can taper the faces.
The gap could be caused from a few different things, at a minimum champering the ID of the ferrule should be done imo , or what joey mentioned, and actually having shoulder there instead. For added protection I like to use a deburing tool also. I have a carbide tool I use for that, and I just slightly debur the edge of the inside corner. That part really just helps more with glue lines though.
Another thing to watch for with the gaps is the tap. A bottoming tap does the best job, 5/16-18 is a standard thread so the are cheap and easy to obtain one. If a tapered tap is used, the end of the tenon needs to be tapered to match, or the end of the tenon won't bottom to the cap in the ferrule very easily, and even after the fact the internal stress created by not doing that or not using a bottom tap, could cause a gap to appear, or even cause a ferrule to loosen over time.
I agree, with what's been said about the type of glue, with a threaded ferrule It shouldn't really matter, all It needs to do is act as a thread locker. When I do a threaded ferrule I firmly believe It would hold for a while with no glue before loosening, but I don't seriously believe It would last the test of time like that, so I do use glue. I use to use epoxy, and It held great, but for years was told that was overkill, so I tried the titebond 2 that's waterproof, and have been using It most of the time since. No problems with any threaded ferrules coming loose. I think some types of ferrule material would break before the ferrule would loosen. In fact I've seen that happen.
I know a lot of people here know all this stuff, and It seems like Craig has been here long enough that I'm sure he does too, so He may have had a different issue. I'm just posting It in case It's of any use to the guys that are starting out, and may have not gone through the trial and error period yet. These are just a few issues that I can remember running into a time or 2 in the past.
Greg
When using Devcon five minute epoxy I fill the threaded ferrule up with it, put it on the threaded tenon, but do not let it touch the faced shoulder. I let that soak for a couple of minutes then I screw the ferrule on. What usually gives the glue line is the epoxy soaking into the face and the two to three minutes of thickening time will keep it from soaking in and staining the shoulder.BarenbruggeCues said: