526 and John Schmidt

[Bandanna Joe]

He would never beat Scott in anything besides a race to 3 type format. Play Scott 7-10 ahead and see who wins that game.
And im pretty sure Scott wouldnt ask for a spot :thumbup:

Scott's strong at one hole. Even if it was only a race to 3, John deserves some credit for winning at something he's not known to play. He seems to shine at all disciplines. (Still waiting for the Danny vs. John rematch. I realize they played 14.1 at DCC. I want to see an all around again. I like watching them play.)

Back to the subject...Willie Mosconi. I was fortunate to meet Willie and Jimmy Caras back in the early nineties. I said hey Willie what will you spot me in straight? Willie replies, "Anything you want kid!"

Willie and Jimmy's autographed pics are a focal point in my pool room.

 

[8ballEinstein]

I'm not sure I understand the obsession with this run by Mosconi. He was prodded to keep shooting after running out an exhibition match. He wasn't out to break or set any records.

Also, I saw in another thread that he missed the 527th ball which ended his run. A quote from a book was given as evidence as being "from the horses mouth". BUT, I was at an exhibition by Willie and he said that rumors of him overcutting the 14 ball up the long rail were false. The run ended because he was simply tired and stopped shooting. Who know how far he could've gone, if that were true.

If someone wants to break a record, it should be Mike Eufemia's 625. There were many witnesses to it and it was entirely possible that he pulled it off. My understanding was that the regular guys at his favorite poolroom would see him get a table and set up the standard break shot, then bet even odds amongst each other on whether he would get to 200. Again, this was an even up bet!!!

I'm sure Willie is up there, looking down at us and having a good laugh.

 

[jay helfert]

I'm not sure I understand the obsession with this run by Mosconi. He was prodded to keep shooting after running out an exhibition match. He wasn't out to break or set any records.

Also, I saw in another thread that he missed the 527th ball which ended his run. A quote from a book was given as evidence as being "from the horses mouth". BUT, I was at an exhibition by Willie and he said that rumors of him overcutting the 14 ball up the long rail were false. The run ended because he was simply tired and stopped shooting. Who know how far he could've gone, if that were true.

If someone wants to break a record, it should be Mike Eufemia's 625. There were many witnesses to it and it was entirely possible that he pulled it off. My understanding was that the regular guys at his favorite poolroom would see him get a table and set up the standard break shot, then bet even odds amongst each other on whether he would get to 200. Again, this was an even up bet!!!

I'm sure Willie is up there, looking down at us and having a good laugh.

Willie missed to end the run. That was the story around Ohio in the 60's. He didn't quit from being weary.

Would you still want to credit Eufemia if he started his run with a break shot? And what if he had no opponent? Just wondering.

 

[Nostroke]

John won't have to put up his dirt bike for that match. He won't have trouble finding backers! (Nothing against Thorsten as he is a class act.)


BTW, who knew the guy could play one pocket? I like the thread he started a few months ago challenging one pocket champions with any type of spot. I guess the cat is out of the bag now! Nice work...John!

A. I would certainly back My Hohmann in that bet were all 3 of us in the same place. These are 2 World Champions. Either can win on any given day with no spot.

B.John came to Florida several times in 2003-4. He played one pocket as much as any other game and won 90% of the time if not higher.

 

[gbru]

I'm not sure I understand the obsession with this run by Mosconi. He was prodded to keep shooting after running out an exhibition match. He wasn't out to break or set any records.

Also, I saw in another thread that he missed the 527th ball which ended his run. A quote from a book was given as evidence as being "from the horses mouth". BUT, I was at an exhibition by Willie and he said that rumors of him overcutting the 14 ball up the long rail were false. The run ended because he was simply tired and stopped shooting. Who know how far he could've gone, if that were true.

If he didn't miss, then why would "he" have put that he "did miss" in his "autobiography"?

Also, I still think that it is more difficult to run 526 on a 4x8 because their has to be much more cue ball control being their is not as much room for the balls to separate.

John Schmidt is a great ball pocketer. But from what I've heard about Mosconi's cue ball control......well... John has a way to go. That seems to be the difference, to me. Especially on a smaller table.

Also, from what I've heard Mosconi had more heart, drive, dedication and fiery determination than most of his peers. While many of the current players on on-line, watching TV or doing other entertaining things.............. Mosconi was practicing. I've heard that when he missed a shot he would practice it for 8 hours till he owned it. But.....maybe that is a little exageration.

Anyway, John is a great player and a great guy. I wish him all the luck and good fortune in his life and pool career. Now, I've got to go do some practicing. I missed a couple of shots: 8x21= 168 hrs.

george

 

[Bandanna Joe]

A. I would certainly back My Hohmann in that bet were all 3 of us in the same place. These are 2 World Champions. Either can win on any given day with no spot.

B.John came to Florida several times in 2003-4. He played one pocket as much as any other game and won 90% of the time if not higher.

Let me get this straight. You think Thorsten can spot John 250 going to 1000 in Straight?

I'm a huge Willie fan & entirely respect the elders; however, I think Danny H., John, Niels, Thirsten, or Ralph will break the 526 in the future.

 

[Yancey]

Jay,

Not to be argumentative however, I have two one hour DVDs with Willie in exhibition in 1986 at the Bankshot in Anchorage AK and he tells this story on the DVD. He said he got tired and stopped shooting. I was at four of his hour long exhibitions. I also will tell you that I have heard folks say he shot with a Rambow, but I can tell you at this exhibition he stated and I held in my hands his Balabushka, it had just a few sloted diamond pearl enlays but was a tradition Balabushka.

 

[Nostroke]

Let me get this straight. You think Thorsten can spot John 250 going to 1000 in Straight?

I'm a huge Willie fan & entirely respect the elders; however, I think Danny H., John, Niels, Thirsten, or Ralph will break the 526 in the future.

No I dont-The way i read it, Thorsten gets the spot.

 

[muttley76]

No I dont-The way i read it, Thorsten gets the spot.

I think the original poster(of the Thorsten-Schmidt match) said Schmidt would lose 100-750.

 

[8ballEinstein]

Would you still want to credit Eufemia if he started his run with a break shot? And what if he had no opponent? Just wondering.

Give him credit? Doesn't matter to me one way or the other. It looks as if there was a modern player that could record a record-breaking run on video, most folks would accept it. No one mentioned having an opponent or if the run should start from the standard break shot. It's not like Willie's opponent got the chance to complete his inning and try to run 527+. It seems like what matters to most people is the ability to run balls like crazy. Where or how it starts doesn't make a difference.

 

[8ballEinstein]

Would you still want to credit Eufemia if he started his run with a break shot? And what if he had no opponent? Just wondering.

Give him credit? Doesn't matter to me one way or the other. It looks as if there was a modern player that could record a record-breaking run on video, most folks would accept it. No one mentioned having an opponent or if the run should start from the standard break shot. It's not like Willie's opponent got the chance to complete his inning and try to run 527+. It seems like what matters to most people is the ability to run balls like crazy. Where or how it starts doesn't make a difference.

 

[jay helfert]

Jay,

Not to be argumentative however, I have two one hour DVDs with Willie in exhibition in 1986 at the Bankshot in Anchorage AK and he tells this story on the DVD. He said he got tired and stopped shooting. I was at four of his hour long exhibitions. I also will tell you that I have heard folks say he shot with a Rambow, but I can tell you at this exhibition he stated and I held in my hands his Balabushka, it had just a few sloted diamond pearl enlays but was a tradition Balabushka.

No argument. I talked to Howard Barrett who was there. He said Willie missed a break shot. We interviewed Willie about 15 years ago at Hard Times (sad to say the tape was erased accidentally). I spoke with him for about an hour about everything. I asked him about the 526 run. He said he finally got tired and missed a backwards cut on a break shot. He showed me the shot on a piece of paper. The cue ball was near the rail and the object ball was near the stack.

Willie never said anything to me about stopping shooting because he was tired. Someone else started that rumor.

 

[jay helfert]

Give him credit? Doesn't matter to me one way or the other. It looks as if there was a modern player that could record a record-breaking run on video, most folks would accept it. No one mentioned having an opponent or if the run should start from the standard break shot. It's not like Willie's opponent got the chance to complete his inning and try to run 527+. It seems like what matters to most people is the ability to run balls like crazy. Where or how it starts doesn't make a difference.

To me it does. If someone were to run 527 balls in one of Bob Jewett's Straight Pool Challenges, no one would dispute it because it would be on tape. I believe they start from a break shot also. So the first rack is wide open to start. That could be viewed as a 14 ball advantage by some people.

Mosconi's run was significant because he had an opponent and he did not start from a pre-arranged position. It was a real contest in other words. If someone does break Willie's record by starting with a break shot, I won't make a big deal out of it, because it will still be an amazing feat.

What's funny to me is that we are having all these discussions and no one has yet to beat Willie's record. He did manage to put a big number up there for everyone to shoot at. :grin:

 

[Rich93]

No argument. I talked to Howard Barrett who was there. He said Willie missed a break shot. We interviewed Willie about 15 years ago at Hard Times (sad to say the tape was erased accidentally). I spoke with him for about an hour about everything. I asked him about the 526 run. He said he finally got tired and missed a backwards cut on a break shot. He showed me the shot on a piece of paper. The cue ball was near the rail and the object ball was near the stack.

Willie never said anything to me about stopping shooting because he was tired. Someone else started that rumor.

I think maybe Willie himself started the rumor. Somewhere I have about a one hour tape that Willie did with an interviewer and the production company offered for sale. He did an interview, basic instruction, some trick shots and ended by running two racks of straight pool. I'm pretty sure he said he didn't miss but just got tired. I'm sure you have it right, though - he missed.

 

[Cashrider]

Where have l heard that before ?

No argument. I talked to Howard Barrett who was there. He said Willie missed a break shot. We interviewed Willie about 15 years ago at Hard Times (sad to say the tape was erased accidentally). I spoke with him for about an hour about everything. I asked him about the 526 run. He said he finally got tired and missed a backwards cut on a break shot. He showed me the shot on a piece of paper. The cue ball was near the rail and the object ball was near the stack.

Willie never said anything to me about stopping shooting because he was tired. Someone else started that rumor.

...aaah, Republicans.

 

[PoolBum]

Willie never said anything to me about stopping shooting because he was tired. Someone else started that rumor.

Pat Fleming interviewed Mosconi at his 1991 exhibition 14.1 match against Jimmy Caras. Here is what Mosconi said in that interview about how his 526 ball run ended:

Pat: "I've read and I've heard different stories about what happened to end that run. Would you tell us?"

Mosconi: "What happened in the run? I ran 526 and got tired and quit."

 

[enzo]

i'll tell you a couple of things nobody ever mentions about these hig runs.....

1) if you're not in a tournament or playing an opponent (who is racking), one could easily, without anybody noticing, fudge the rack a tad (high or low) so as to be able to continue a perhaps ending run. people say, awe, who cares, but this really is a big deal. and this could be especially true on the video "proof" that we see nowadays.

2) high runs are silly in a way. the guy gets WAY out of line at say 300, fires at a bank, combo-kiss, it happens to go and he runs 100 more. The point is, there is nothing "real" behind these runs, the guy just fires at everything like when somebody plays the ghost. Further, if runs are continued on shots that a guy would never shoot in a real match, what does it mean? And how much is luck a part of it? Strait pool is normally played to 150 or perhaps 200 anyway.

When it comes to "high runs", why don't we measure greatness the way it shoud be is my point, by the guy who manages to put together the most 150's in tournament (or other meaningful) play (eg Sigel gets my vote by the way).

 

[Bobby]

i'll tell you a couple of things nobody ever mentions about these hig runs.....

1) if you're not in a tournament or playing an opponent (who is racking), one could easily, without anybody noticing, fudge the rack a tad (high or low) so as to be able to continue a perhaps ending run. people say, awe, who cares, but this really is a big deal. and this could be especially true on the video "proof" that we see nowadays.

2) high runs are silly in a way. the guy gets WAY out of line at say 300, fires at a bank, combo-kiss, it happens to go and he runs 100 more. The point is, there is nothing "real" behind these runs, the guy just fires at everything like when somebody plays the ghost. Further, if runs are continued on shots that a guy would never shoot in a real match, what does it mean? And how much is luck a part of it? Strait pool is normally played to 150 or perhaps 200 anyway.

When it comes to "high runs", why don't we measure greatness the way it shoud be is my point, by the guy who manages to put together the most 150's in tournament (or other meaningful) play (eg Sigel gets my vote by the way).

That's a good point about shooting shots you'd never go for in a real match. it reminds me of a guy I used to play with a few years ago, he wasn't that good maybe a C+ player, I never saw him run more than 2 racks of straight pool, he was more of a 10-12 and play safe kind of player. Anyway, he tells me that when he was about 18 he ran 57 balls and hasn't beat it since, he even said he ran 30's and 40's all the time. Now I was a little skeptical because his game wasn't that good, his shot selection was bad and he just didn't have a lot of knowledge, so i get around to asking him in a round about way how he had bigger runs back then and he laughs and says "Oh, you have to understand that at the pool room I grew up in it was considered almost cheating to play safe, we always went for a shot no matter how ridiculous it was!"


So now I'm thinking with my high run of 79, i'd probably run over 100 eventually if i took that approach!

 

[jay helfert]

Pat Fleming interviewed Mosconi at his 1991 exhibition 14.1 match against Jimmy Caras. Here is what Mosconi said in that interview about how his 526 ball run ended:

Pat: "I've read and I've heard different stories about what happened to end that run. Would you tell us?"

Mosconi: "What happened in the run? I ran 526 and got tired and quit."

Pat got Willie's "flip" answer. Sorry, I don't believe it. I still think he missed. I grew up in Dayton, just down the road from Springfield. I knew Russ Maddox well, and also George Rood. They were around when Willie was doing his exhibitions. According to every one in the area, Willie did run 526 balls, and then he missed. Plain and simple. Willie's ego may have required him to make up another story from time to time. He was not one to downplay his accomplishments. In fact, the opposite may be true.

 

[Bobby]

Pat got Willie's "flip" answer. Sorry, I don't believe it. I still think he missed. I grew up in Dayton, just down the road from Springfield. I knew Russ Maddox well, and also George Rood. They were around when Willie was doing his exhibitions. According to every one in the area, Willie did run 526 balls, and then he missed. Plain and simple. Willie's ego may have required him to make up another story from time to time. He was not one to downplay his accomplishments. In fact, the opposite may be true.

Jay, have you heard anything about Mosconi actually missing a shot during that run and then continue shooting to 526? I think it was Grady that mentioned on this board a few years back that when mosconi was at around 400 balls he shot a ball in that popped backed out onto the table and it was agreed that the ball should have stayed down so it was counted as a good shot and he continued....that was the only time I ever heard about that.