526 High Run Straight Pool

[titanic]

IT IS A LITTLE DISTURBING WHEN NAME CALLING COMES INTO THE PICTURE. EVERYONE HAS A RIGHT TO THEIR OPINION SO LET'S STOP BERATING THOSE WHO DISAGREE WITH OURS.

I PLAYED MOSCONI IN AN EXHIBITION IN 1962 AT A PLACE CALLED THE BOOMERANG IN SAN LEANDRO CALIFORNIA. I GOT BEAT 150 TO 13.

HE GOT LOCKED UP IN THE RACK WHEN HE SHOT THE BREAK SHOT. IT WAS ON A 4 X 8 BRUNSWICK AND THE BALLS HIT THE RAILS BOUNCED BACK, AND ALL CLUSTERED AROUND THE CUE BALL. HE HAD NO SHOT BUT IN THE INTEREST OF THE EXHIBITION HE DID NOT PLAY SAFE, HE WENT FOR A COMBINATION AND MISSED. I RAN OUT THE THIRTEEN AND HUNG THE 2 BALL IN THE CORNER POCKET. THAT WAS THE LAST PLAYING I DID.

FOR THOSE WHO THINK EFREN IS THE GREATEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME WHY HAS HE NOT BROKEN THE 526 RECORD ?

AS FAR AS THAT GOES WHAT IS THE 2nd HIGHEST RUN AND WHO HOLDS THAT?

AND ALL YOU GUYS WHO THINK YOU CAN PLAY A LITTLE......RACK EM UP AND LETS SEE HOW MANY YOU CAN RUN CONSECUTIVELY !!!!! YOU ARE IN FOR A REAL SHOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AM LOOKING FORWARD TO ANY REPLYS AS THIS IS A SORE SUBJECT FOR ME.

.

 

[Harvywallbanger]

I don't think Efren plays much 14.1. Thats all they played back then. If Efren played as much 14.1 as Mosconni who knows what he could accomplish. I don't want to rile you up but there are alot of people who say the record has been beat but since it wasn't official they never counted it.


*tip toes out of thread*

 

[Blackjack]

IT IS A LITTLE DISTURBING WHEN NAME CALLING COMES INTO THE PICTURE. EVERYONE HAS A RIGHT TO THEIR OPINION SO LET'S STOP BERATING THOSE WHO DISAGREE WITH OURS.

I PLAYED MOSCONI IN AN EXHIBITION IN 1962 AT A PLACE CALLED THE BOOMERANG IN SAN LEANDRO CALIFORNIA. I GOT BEAT 150 TO 13.

HE GOT LOCKED UP IN THE RACK WHEN HE SHOT THE BREAK SHOT. IT WAS ON A 4 X 8 BRUNSWICK AND THE BALLS HIT THE RAILS BOUNCED BACK, AND ALL CLUSTERED AROUND THE CUE BALL. HE HAD NO SHOT BUT IN THE INTEREST OF THE EXHIBITION HE DID NOT PLAY SAFE, HE WENT FOR A COMBINATION AND MISSED. I RAN OUT THE THIRTEEN AND HUNG THE 2 BALL IN THE CORNER POCKET. THAT WAS THE LAST PLAYING I DID.

FOR THOSE WHO THINK EFREN IS THE GREATEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME WHY HAS HE NOT BROKEN THE 526 RECORD ?

AS FAR AS THAT GOES WHAT IS THE 2nd HIGHEST RUN AND WHO HOLDS THAT?

AND ALL YOU GUYS WHO THINK YOU CAN PLAY A LITTLE......RACK EM UP AND LETS SEE HOW MANY YOU CAN RUN CONSECUTIVELY !!!!! YOU ARE IN FOR A REAL SHOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AM LOOKING FORWARD TO ANY REPLYS AS THIS IS A SORE SUBJECT FOR ME.

.

For some reason I am reminded of the scene at the end of Coming to America where they are discussing Rocky Marciano, Cassius Clay, and Joe Louis. lol.

Efren and Willie are two great players from two completely different eras. They have completely different playing styles and two completely different outlooks on how to play the game.

I was brought up on straight pool and I learned from some of the best that have ever played the game. When talking about the best - almost all of them mentioned Greenleaf, not Mosconi.

Who has the second highest? I thought Cranfield had run 700+ in practice??? I always thought that was the record and that WIllie was second. The highest and most respected high run in my book is Thomas Engert's 492.


My 14.1 heroes are Cisero Murphy, Irving Crane, Steve Mizerak, Jack Colavita, Lou Butera, and Babe Cranfield. I'm sure if I spoke with someone that is from the south, they would have a list that consisted of 6 other players than the ones I have mentioned. That's okay. I know who left an impression on me and who I tried to emulate.

Here's a list of high runs:
14.1 High Runs
I'm in there somewhere down at the bottom. lol.

As far as how many I can run... my high run is 212...(on a GCIV w/ 4.5 " pockets) I've been over 200 a few times. Tonight I ran 109 (with a 60 & an 85 in there as well) not bad for a guy that was laughed at and told that his stroke would never amount to anything.

Anytime you want to hit 'em, let me know. I'm a pool player, I pocket balls, I run racks, set 'em back up, knock 'em down again, it's what I do.

 

[bigpocket]

Larry nevel ran 100 balls in straight pool at age 9.I think thats pretty impressive!!!! His high run is around 260 not bad for a guy who does not play straight pool much....

 

[suckershot]

FOR THOSE WHO THINK EFREN IS THE GREATEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME WHY HAS HE NOT BROKEN THE 526 RECORD ?

Just because Mosconi holds the "official" high run in straight pool, it does not make him the greatest player of all time, if that's what you're implying. Maybe Efren never really tried to best that run. Maybe Efren doesn't care. Could be plenty of reasons why Efren hasn't beaten it. What's in it for Efren to do such a thing, other than to be able to brag, something which we know Efren doesn't do anyway. I think John Schmidt said it best; today's players probably could beat it if they were given sufficient motivation. In other words, somebody flash a lot of dough around for besting Mosconi's run, and maybe someone will try, and perhaps someone will do it. But otherwise, I don't see any real motivation for anyone to attempt to beat that run, because quite frankly, bragging rights don't pay bills.

Last I checked, straight pool isn't the only game in town. It might have once been the game of champions, and believe me, I appreciate straight pool ability as much as anyone, but excellence solely at straight pool does not qualify you as the greatest of all time. It was mentioned somewhere (I think) Mosconi played 9-ball fairly well also. But Efren obviously can play 9-ball with the best of them, as well as 8-ball as shown by recent IPT events, he's widely considered to be the best one pocket player today (and arguably of all time), and yes, he can even play a little 14.1, as a video I have of him playing Jim Rempe proves (Efren ran 123, I think). But wait...he also plays rotation (a favorite of the Filipinos), and I've heard he even dabbles in snooker, 3 cushion, and 18-1 balkline (which I pulled from the interview right here on AZ). Mosconi might've been real good at straight pool, and pretty good at 9-ball, but who really knows about his 8-ball ability, and as I understand it, he wouldn't even touch one pocket. I'm not trying to diminish what Mosconi brought to the game; he's obviously very important to pocket billiards. But since we are talking about ability, it seems to me that Efren's probably got him beat everywhere but 14.1.

 

[cuetechasaurus]

A friend of mine knows Efren very well. I often ask him questions about Efren since he has known him for such a long time. A while back I asked him if Efren ever plays straight pool, and he told me that Efren doesn't really care much for the game. I'm sure if he did, he would be able to top Mosconi's 526, and he would do it on a 9 footer.

 

[catscradle]

For some reason I am reminded of the scene at the end of Coming to America where they are discussing Rocky Marciano, Cassius Clay, and Joe Louis. lol.
....

tap-tap-tap.
Exactly, I hate it when people compare across eras, it just isn't meaningful. Different equipment, different cultures, hell different nutrition growing up for that matter. In Mosconi's era, I'm sure there was a huge debate who was better Mosconi or Greenleaf. Now the debate is Efren vs. Willie. What would Efren's high run be if he concentrated on 14.1, what would Willie's high run have been if he concentrated on making a living from 9-ball. Who knows.

There is of course one exception to the don't compare across eras rule, Babe Ruth was the greatest hitter of all time. Like Greenleaf, imagine if he was clean and sober.

 

[alpine9430]

Here's a list of high runs:
14.1 High Runs
I'm in there somewhere down at the bottom. lol.

Thanks for posting up the link to the hi runs.
Some of the older names are very familiar to me and it brought back a lot of memories (played but mostly watched in Ames and Julians while growing up in NYC).

Good luck breaking your personal hi.
Myron

 

[Gerry]

Excellent posts here people. I think most of my opinions on the subject have been made already here by others. One thing I think of when this subject comes up is, you will have a hard time finding anyone who said Efren treats people badly, is a jerk, has a bad attitude, etc......not the same about Willie, and for the record....I'm a huge Mosconi fan!

Hey Blackjack, I saw your name on the list for the annual 14.1 event at D&D Family billiards. I've played in it a few times, never going more than 4 rounds, but I have great memories of the tourney. That was my home room when I lived in Pa, and I still consider it to be. I worked there years back, and that pool room is a special place. Enjoy yourself, and if things work out I'll see you there!

I"m sitting here remembering some of the matches I've seen in that little pool room.....Sigel/Rempe, Varner/Hopkins, Calovito/Hopkins, Baroutti/Maidhoff....and other greats like Don (Mousey) Polo, Andy Toth, the Fuscos.....and more I'm forgetting.

Good rolls in the event.
Gerry

 

[Tommy Joe]

Last I checked, straight pool isn't the only game in town. It might have once been the game of champions, and believe me, I appreciate straight pool ability as much as anyone, but excellence solely at straight pool does not qualify you as the greatest of all time.

I know what you're saying. I don't even know if there is such a thing as the 'greatest of all time'. The very last thing I want to do is get into an endless and futile debate about who's the best of all time or which pool game takes the most talent. I believe all games have equal value when it comes to difficulty and quality of competition.

However, I must say one thing about straight pool. I believe it produces a more 'definitive' champion than 9 or 8 ball, or any game played thus far. Maybe if one-pocket were more popular it too would be a good game for this.

By definitive I mean that certain players dominated the game in certain eras - and dominated large - and there was little debate about it. If it wasn't Mosconi it was Crane, before that Greenleaf. I agree with you that straight pool is not the only game in town, nor should it be. I believe 9 ball is a great game, a demanding game, a raw and pure game that showcases talent and smarts and ability in all it's forms - but there is no definitive champ. As good as Efren is, can he really be called the absolute best today when there are so many great 9 ball players and so many tournaments all over the world?

So, I'm not trying to debate which game requires more skill, or which game has the most skillful players. I'm only saying that straight pool seemed to produce a more definitive champion than 9 ball, a more dominant champion - perhaps because straight pool is a continuous game in which players have more control over what happens to each new opening rack. Straight pool is the only continuous game, that I know of.

I used to bring this subject up from time to time and it would always end up in an argument about which game takes more talent or which game has the better players, when that was never my intention. I was merely suggesting that straight pool seems to produce a more definitive champion. And I still feel the same. If my feeling is valid (maybe it's not), I'd say that the game of straight pool is continuous probably has a lot to do with it. If some creative person or group of persons could come up with a way to give 9 ball players continuous control instead of smashing the balls and praying every rack, maybe then 9 ball would be the definitive game. Maybe. Anybody agree or even come close to agreeing?

Tommy Joe

 

[Tommy Joe]

It was mentioned somewhere (I think) Mosconi played 9-ball fairly well also.

I never saw it, only read that Mosconi used to travel and put on exhibitions with the world champion snooker player of that time, or maybe just the Canadian champ - but he had a very respectable record against the snooker player - playing snooker - in those exhibitions. Once again, I don't enjoy debating who's the best, it can be fun for a short time, but it's ultimately frustrating and fruitless. What I'm saying is it should never be a shock that the best pool players of any era might be good at more than one game. If a guy's not just good, but great, it only stands to reason that he's going to be good at more than one game. I am not surprised that Efren is good at a variety of games. He should be. He's good with a cue.

Tommy Joe

 

[Gerry]

Great post Tommy!....maybe we can come up with a short rack, rotational, continuous game. Maybe rack like 10ball, and during the runout you designate a break ball which can be skipped in the rotation, then run out to continue. Kind of simple, but may be fun. I'm sure he Filipinos will dominate my new game! Maybe I'll call it "Rocon".....rotational,continuous.

Gerry

 

[whitewolf]

For some reason I am reminded of the scene at the end of Coming to America where they are discussing Rocky Marciano, Cassius Clay, and Joe Louis. lol.

Efren and Willie are two great players from two completely different eras. They have completely different playing styles and two completely different outlooks on how to play the game.

I was brought up on straight pool and I learned from some of the best that have ever played the game. When talking about the best - almost all of them mentioned Greenleaf, not Mosconi.

Who has the second highest? I thought Cranfield had run 700+ in practice??? I always thought that was the record and that WIllie was second. The highest and most respected high run in my book is Thomas Engert's 492.


My 14.1 heroes are Cisero Murphy, Irving Crane, Steve Mizerak, Jack Colavita, Lou Butera, and Babe Cranfield. I'm sure if I spoke with someone that is from the south, they would have a list that consisted of 6 other players than the ones I have mentioned. That's okay. I know who left an impression on me and who I tried to emulate.

Here's a list of high runs:
14.1 High Runs
I'm in there somewhere down at the bottom. lol.

As far as how many I can run... my high run is 212...(on a GCIV w/ 4.5 " pockets) I've been over 200 a few times. Tonight I ran 109 (with a 60 & an 85 in there as well) not bad for a guy that was laughed at and told that his stroke would never amount to anything.

Anytime you want to hit 'em, let me know. I'm a pool player, I pocket balls, I run racks, set 'em back up, knock 'em down again, it's what I do.

Interesting list:

Larry Guninger 274 balls at straight pool.

And where is Luther Lassiter? He claims to have run over 200 balls several times.

 

[mthornto]

and he would do it on a 9 footer.

I don't want to get in the who the greatest argument, but one thing does get brought up in these discussions that I leans towards disagreeing with. People always bring up that the record was on an 8 footer.

I am not a 100 ball runner by a long shot, but a couple of "older timer" friends of mine are. They both feel that large runs on an 8 footer is harder than a 9 footer. One pointed out that most of the game takes place on just half the table and you don't really shoot very many long shots any how. The higher difficulty of makeing the occasional long shot is more than offset by having the extra room around the rack to work with. They basically felt that 8 foot tables were to conjested and required more exacting play.

As for Willie's high run, they did both mention the bucket pockets taking a little away from the glory of the run.

We have some 100 ball runners on the forums, what do they think?

 

[thebighurt]

IT IS A LITTLE DISTURBING WHEN NAME CALLING COMES INTO THE PICTURE. EVERYONE HAS A RIGHT TO THEIR OPINION SO LET'S STOP BERATING THOSE WHO DISAGREE WITH OURS.

I PLAYED MOSCONI IN AN EXHIBITION IN 1962 AT A PLACE CALLED THE BOOMERANG IN SAN LEANDRO CALIFORNIA. I GOT BEAT 150 TO 13.

HE GOT LOCKED UP IN THE RACK WHEN HE SHOT THE BREAK SHOT. IT WAS ON A 4 X 8 BRUNSWICK AND THE BALLS HIT THE RAILS BOUNCED BACK, AND ALL CLUSTERED AROUND THE CUE BALL. HE HAD NO SHOT BUT IN THE INTEREST OF THE EXHIBITION HE DID NOT PLAY SAFE, HE WENT FOR A COMBINATION AND MISSED. I RAN OUT THE THIRTEEN AND HUNG THE 2 BALL IN THE CORNER POCKET. THAT WAS THE LAST PLAYING I DID.

FOR THOSE WHO THINK EFREN IS THE GREATEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME WHY HAS HE NOT BROKEN THE 526 RECORD ?

AS FAR AS THAT GOES WHAT IS THE 2nd HIGHEST RUN AND WHO HOLDS THAT?

AND ALL YOU GUYS WHO THINK YOU CAN PLAY A LITTLE......RACK EM UP AND LETS SEE HOW MANY YOU CAN RUN CONSECUTIVELY !!!!! YOU ARE IN FOR A REAL SHOCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AM LOOKING FORWARD TO ANY REPLYS AS THIS IS A SORE SUBJECT FOR ME.

.

All Kevin trudeau has to do is put up $ 1,000,000 for anybody that breaks Mosconis high run and it will be smashed within a month. There is no reason for efren to play straight pool. By the way efren runs 15 balls like mosconi used to do only efren runs them in order!! I pray Kevin trudeau puts up some kind of money for breaking that record and all of you will see just how great Efren is.

 

[pharaoh68]

FOR THOSE WHO THINK EFREN IS THE GREATEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME WHY HAS HE NOT BROKEN THE 526 RECORD ?

AM LOOKING FORWARD TO ANY REPLYS AS THIS IS A SORE SUBJECT FOR ME.

It has been said several times over in this thread but can not be repeated enough. Mocsconi was of a generation where straight (14.1) was THE game to play. Efren was of a different generation and culture where rotation was the game.

As Blackjack said earlier, Cranfield supposedly ran 700+ in practice. Several others supposedly recorded runs in excess of 600 with witnesses, but were not officially recorded.

No one is taking anything away from Mosconi. To run 526 on ANY table is a feat to be extremely proud of. However, I think its only fair to examine the equipment being used. And if you are going to look at the equipment on which Mosconi recorded his high run, you have to look at others. Willie did it on an 8 footer with big pockets. Like Blackjack said, Thomas Engert ran 492 (just 2.5 racks shy of the "official" world record) playing on a bigger table with smaller pockets. To me, that is more impressive.

But remember titanic, this is not to say that Mosconi's run is NOT impressive. I probably couldn't run 526 with ball in hand on ever shot! But when comparing high runs like these, you have to level the playing field a little. Do you think Engert would have had an easier time of it on Mosconi's 8-footer? And do you think Mosconi would have had a tougher time on Engert's 9-footer? I think the answers to both of those questions are fairly evident.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... I am not a 100 ball runner by a long shot, but a couple of "older timer" friends of mine are. They both feel that large runs on an 8 footer is harder than a 9 footer. ...

I asked Jimmy Caras about this. He said that the old-time champions would only miss on an 8-footer if they got tired. My own experience is that it was easier for me to run balls on an 8-foot table. You do need to be able to play close position, but I think all the old-timers could.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... As Blackjack said earlier, Greenleaf supposedly ran 700+ in practice. Several others supposedly recorded runs in excess of 600 with witnesses, but were not officially recorded.

...

Babe Cranfield, not Greenleaf. 768, as reported in an article by Larry Moy.

 

[pharaoh68]

Babe Cranfield, not Greenleaf. 768, as reported in an article by Larry Moy.

My bad. Error fixed.

And lest we not forget reports of Nick van den Berg breaking the record a few months ago during a practice session in Europe. I don't know if its true or not.

 

[Jedi V Man]

he told me that Efren doesn't really care much for the game. I'm sure if he did, he would be able to top Mosconi's 526, and he would do it on a 9 footer.

That's the most pretentious statement I have ever read.

So if Efren played and liked the game more, he would instantly be better......

Willie played the game of 14:1 for 30 years professionally, that skill isn;t repricated in a few months of someone practicing that game.

I would wager that if anyone alive today could ever be as Close to as good as Willie was in his prime, the only one I could come up with would be Ronnie O'sullivan...

Willie has ran more 150 ball games than anyone ever has, and I am pretty sure more than anyone ever will....

When Willie was playing pool as a pro in his prime, 14:1 was all you had, and is all he really played....

I suppose if Efren practices playing Running Back for a little while he will also eventually be better than Barry Sanders was too, huh.....

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh