Show me the pro's and experts who say that you should aim when you get down on the shot. I'll wait. lol
6 Steps of the Pool Shot
- Thread starter chefjeff
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Of course that's not what I said. According to you, you can plop yourself down perfectly and just stop aiming and stroke. I prefer to aim.
Pool Hand Luke
Well-known member
I've watched both Tate and JV's videos. They're both excellent players. JV even gives commentary of his thought process through each of his racks. Good stuff.
Here's an easy test. Set up a spot shot. Align yourself, start to get down on it and close your eyes about half way down. Then shoot. Under your theory, you should be fine.
I'm NOT down on a shot "half way" down. When I get down, then I stop aiming. Understand now?
Ok get down on the shot, close your eyes, take a couple of practice strokes and shoot. Let me know how it goes for you. Should be just fine since you've stopped aiming. Anybody can repeat this experiment.
You think that is hard? Seriously. I do it all the time when playing with friends when shooting the money ball, just for fun.
Remember Tom Cruise did that in the Color of Money. I'll bet you can do it with out a problem. Most folks can.
It's not hard if your mechanics are rock solid. Once you aimed, and you're in the shooting position, the only thing left is to hit your "finish". It takes a bit more concentration because your hands like to follow your eyes and now they are not following anything. But, mechanically speaking, if you stroke like you always do, it will go in. Consistency matters. Just moving your forearm to the same spot you always do. If your mechanics are good, you will be fine.
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Too many posts to stack reply to, so hopefully those interested will see my post without the notification....
I really can't speak for other players so maybe I shouldn't broadly state someone that claims they don't adjust their aim when down on the shot is lying. That said, I challenge the notion that someone would stand over a shot that requires any CB spin or semi-tight shot line (aka: anything other than a straight in dead CB) and not make adjustments when down on the ball. If they actually cared about the outcome I suppose.
Can you slop in a ball without any adjustment...?.., sure. Can you play with any precision...?..., I highly doubt it.
...and for sake of clarity. When I say "precision" I mean picking your spot in the pocket, and adjusting you're shot line based on CB squirt.
What do you think happens when players take practice strokes...? If you're fundamentals are solid, it isn't to correct that. Could be for some this 'fine tuning' is just subconsciously done.
Can't recall who posted it, but although you don't notice it in the posted video, I adjust my CB strike point and subsequent aim because of that adjustment on nearly ever shot except the most basic. The general shot line doesn't change. The micro (fine tuning) happens when down on the ball. If and when you see me reset, that's because I've either determined there's a better way to play the shot or I just don't feel comfortable.
I won't say those who don't 'fine adjust' while down on the ball are wrong. I just find it hard to believe that those who try to play at a high level wouldn't take the time/effort/opprotunity to do so. It's not second guessing yourself. It's making adjustments when you have the best vantage point to do so accurately.
If there's players out there that can do what I'm doing while standing over the shot, then my hat's off to them. Well done...
I really can't speak for other players so maybe I shouldn't broadly state someone that claims they don't adjust their aim when down on the shot is lying. That said, I challenge the notion that someone would stand over a shot that requires any CB spin or semi-tight shot line (aka: anything other than a straight in dead CB) and not make adjustments when down on the ball. If they actually cared about the outcome I suppose.
Can you slop in a ball without any adjustment...?.., sure. Can you play with any precision...?..., I highly doubt it.
...and for sake of clarity. When I say "precision" I mean picking your spot in the pocket, and adjusting you're shot line based on CB squirt.
What do you think happens when players take practice strokes...? If you're fundamentals are solid, it isn't to correct that. Could be for some this 'fine tuning' is just subconsciously done.
Can't recall who posted it, but although you don't notice it in the posted video, I adjust my CB strike point and subsequent aim because of that adjustment on nearly ever shot except the most basic. The general shot line doesn't change. The micro (fine tuning) happens when down on the ball. If and when you see me reset, that's because I've either determined there's a better way to play the shot or I just don't feel comfortable.
I won't say those who don't 'fine adjust' while down on the ball are wrong. I just find it hard to believe that those who try to play at a high level wouldn't take the time/effort/opprotunity to do so. It's not second guessing yourself. It's making adjustments when you have the best vantage point to do so accurately.
If there's players out there that can do what I'm doing while standing over the shot, then my hat's off to them. Well done...
I also think that all -- or the vast majority of players -- make some adjustment in alignment when they are down on the shot, at least for hard shots.
As an example, consider a shot as hard as the spot shot. There is a margin of about 1 millimeter in placement of the front and back hands on this shot. If your front hand is off by more than a mm, you are going to miss the shot. Considering the required accuracy, it's amazing that people make such shots. If you want to put the ball in the center of the pocket, you have even less margin.
I don't think that most people can initially place their bridge hand on such shots within a mm of the correct location. I think most people will adjust their bridge a little left/right to make the shot look right when they are down on the shot. If you see that the shot is a tiny bit off because you did not fall down on the shot exactly right, I think it would be a mistake to stand back up and try to come down perfectly.
You're adjusting to what your aim is, the aim you locked in when standing.
You're not re-aiming...or aiming, for that matter when down, you're adjusting to your already established aim.
For example, sometimes I use an aiming system similar to Shane's and I use backhand with it. So, while standing I determine the aiming plane number then I adjust it for the backhand. "Aim 4, backhand to 3", I say to myself, for example. I do this standing. I go down on the aim plane #4 in this case, and then backhand after down to #3 leaving my bridge in place (see ingredients in the SET UP step, above).
You guys are just talking past each other, I think. And besides, to each his own. That's what this recipe concept allows.
Jeff Livingston
Sure if that justifies your take on it...
I have a 'general' CB shot line when standing and concept of the shot I wish to play before I get down on the shot. Once down I then can determine the amount correction I need to apply to maintain the OB shot line with whatever action I decide to place on the CB. I have zero preconception of how I'm going to adjust until I'm down on the shot. The CB to OB line from the standing position is a reference that is nearly never adhered to.
Here's my process:
-Conceptualize the shot and find my shot line
-Begin my PSR and get down on the shot
-Adjust bridge to hit center CB and to hit the OB to make it follow shot line determined when standing
-Adjust bridge for desired CB action (I do not backhand aim)
-Adjust my aim to compensate for CB squirt (and swerve if a factor)
-Adjust my aim to compensate for spin induced throw (if a factor)
-Confirm adjustments
-Shoot
-Revel in awesomeness...
So yes, you can say that I don't adjust my aim, even if I know I do. Just as we could say an archer doesn't adjust aim once they've pulled back the string. ...or just like a sniper doesn't adjust aim when he's shooting from a gajillion yards and realizes the wind has picked up.
My cue follows the shot line when I first address the CB. Most times it's not following the original shot line when I pull the trigger. If moving the cue off the original shot line (aim as you put it) isn't actually adjusting aim, then this is just yet another example of ABZ'ers applying their own definitions to well established words.
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Practice strokes are not for aiming, but ensuring you are hitting the exact spot on the cue ball when it comes time to pull the trigger. It's at that time you are trying to mirror your shooting stroke but in a slower, more controlled manner. Same as a baseball player taking a couple of nice easy swings when he's in the batters box. Making sure your not dropping your elbow, turning your wrist, ensuring everything is ready to go.
But, if we want to consider the practice strokes part of the "aiming" process, no reason to split hairs, I can live with that
You misread. I said you DO adjust when down. You "adjust your aim" when down. Fine with me. I was commenting in the context of your exchange with RJ, that's all.
You do your way, there is no "justifying" any particular way. Each player has his own way. Each player can vary that, too.
Sorry for the confusion.
Jeff Livingston
Again, I can't and shouldn't speak for anyone else. However except on the most basic shots, I never land perfectly when getting down on a shot. 'My' practice strokes are used for dialing in my aim, not verfying my stroke mechanics are good.But, if we want to consider the practice strokes part of the "aiming" process, no reason to split hairs, I can live with that
Here is what you said...:
I'm not adjusting to what my aim was when standing above the shot. I'm altering the aim from that shot line to compensate for whatever.
Yes I am adjusting from the shot line. I'm aiming the CB differently from the shot line I established when standing. I'm not adjusting to that aim, I'm adjusting away from that aim. My target shifts when the variables are introduced. I adjust to that target... hense change my aim.
Interesting debate on how I play and what's going on in my mind at the time.
I think that would be a bad practice to get into, personally.
If looking at the shot while standing, then slowly moving into the shot line and then placing your bridge hand down on that same shot line is incorrect, no amount of "aiming" after you are down is going to fix it. (well, yes, luck can be involved). After all, this "method" has worked on all your other shots, but suddenly, you are going to doubt the accuracy of your methods because of a spot shot ? A shot that is long but one I would not consider a "hard" shot. To me, a hard shot is one that is less than 50% makeable imho.
Also, a shooter's confidence level is going to be lost. If they didn't trust the 3 points of aim they just went through, why would they now trust some micro adjustment looking at the shot from a completely different angle? If you have doubts and this is what you are saying, doubts now exist because of the precision involved, then you need to get up and start over again. I don't like giving a spot shot any more time or effort than shooting a straight in shot only a few diamonds away. They are all the same in my mind. Why tell yourself they are different. Why add the extra pressure. Train your brain they are all the same
Why "pull the trigger" without 100% confidence. There is no shot clock, so if it feels wrong, then start over. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
But, we are all creatures of habit and what works for one might not work for another. But, for most folks, this is not a workable solution to "getting" down in the wrong spot and then readjusting without getting back up.
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Very interesting, thanks for spilling your guts out here.
I used to do it exactly as you do it. I changed not that long ago, maybe just a couple of years.
I originally had about 36 ingredients in my shot and now have closer to 50, I think, as I've changed it due to reasons like we're discussing here. That's one reason I recommend writing down a page for each ing. so a player can change it, fail, and have a way to more easily get back to where he was.
I think aiming while up locks-in my confidence a lot better than my old way. Also, it allowed me to increase my rhythm a bit and I need that more as I get older and my shaking is getting worse. I get to beat it to the punch, so to speak. It's worked for me, anyway.
Jeff Livingston
I'll repost the AIM Step that I do so add some context to this thinking:
Step 3: AIM
Look at the Object Ball’s Target
Visualize the Object Ball’s Path
Visualize the Contact Point
Visualize/Verbalize the Ghost Ball and Aiming Plane (e.g., see and say an aiming system #)
Integrate All Details of English, Speed, Cue Angle, etc.
Allow Brain and Eyes Time Enough to “Lock it in”
In the latest issue of BD, Dr Dave showed us his recipe for aiming and it is similar (and probably better), fyi. For example, I missed a shot last night because I left out the first ingredient here, Look at the OB's target. der. My mind didn't have it and therefore it didn't deliver.
One point of knowing exactly what I did wrong is that my fix is more precise, not just a general thought of "taking the time" or "let it happen," etc.
Jeff Livingston
Step 3: AIM
Look at the Object Ball’s Target
Visualize the Object Ball’s Path
Visualize the Contact Point
Visualize/Verbalize the Ghost Ball and Aiming Plane (e.g., see and say an aiming system #)
Integrate All Details of English, Speed, Cue Angle, etc.
Allow Brain and Eyes Time Enough to “Lock it in”
In the latest issue of BD, Dr Dave showed us his recipe for aiming and it is similar (and probably better), fyi. For example, I missed a shot last night because I left out the first ingredient here, Look at the OB's target. der. My mind didn't have it and therefore it didn't deliver.
One point of knowing exactly what I did wrong is that my fix is more precise, not just a general thought of "taking the time" or "let it happen," etc.
Jeff Livingston
To which article are you referring? I don't remember writing an article recently dealing with aiming. BTW, all my articles are here:
And all of my aiming advice can be found here:
Enjoy,
Dave