8 Ball Break - Hitting the 2nd Ball

nibrobus said:
Furthermore, the table layout were fairly open with maybe 2, 3 clusters at the most. Position is always tight on a 7 ft. so the balls not clustered were still in very close proximity, but racks were definitely runnable with good patterns and speed control. Pros would most likely get out 80-90% of the time with the layouts I was getting.

These are the best results I've ever gotten in approx 3 years of playing at this place, much thanks to the people who responded with such helpful insight!
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Be careful thinking the same break approach (cue ball spin, speed, placement, and aim line) will give similar results on an unfamiliar table.

In my experience every table can give widely different results even when using the same set of balls and the Magic Rack.

The key is to be able to quickly determine what adjustments to your break approach need to be made to get the results you are expecting.

For an example of the impact of table behavior watch Dr Dave's video on the 9 ball break controversy, whereby his "trained table" led to a false positive result in his testing. When he tried the experiment from the other side of the rack the results were quite different. He corrected the problem, but it shows how a seemingly small issue in table conditions can have a large effect.
 
kevoka said:
For an example of the impact of table behavior watch Dr Dave's video on the 9 ball break controversy, whereby his "trained table" led to a false positive result in his testing. When he tried the experiment from the other side of the rack the results were quite different. He corrected the problem, but it shows how a seemingly small issue in table conditions can have a large effect.
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For those interested, the videos and article are on the 9-ball break resource page.

Enjoy,
Dave
 
What size table are you playing on? Probably different results for different sizes.

that said I don't like the 2nd ball break since it seems that when you miss-hit, a lot of balls congregate on the side rail, on the same side you broke from. This leads to slow racks.
 
Doctor_J said:
I don't like the 2nd ball break since it seems that when you miss-hit, a lot of balls congregate on the side rail, on the same side you broke from. This leads to slow racks.
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I actually see this an advantage. If I don't make a ball on the break and leave a bad spread for my opponent, I am happy. Also, a better player almost always has the advantage when the table is "challenging."

Regards,
Dave
 
dr_dave said:
I actually see this an advantage. If I don't make a ball on the break and leave a bad spread for my opponent, I am happy. Also, a better player almost always has the advantage when the table is "challenging."

Regards,
Dave
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The 2nd ball break seems to be the bee’s knees on less than ideal 7’ tables. If I have a template or can get a tight rack I will break head on.

Playing opponent racks, especially on rough tables I use the 2nd ball. It seems like most of the time you either hit it well, make a ball, and get a decent layout. Or you don’t make a ball and everything goes into one quadrant for your opponent to hopefully open something up for you eventually.
 
I aim for low outside, as full a hit on the second ball as possible. And I hit it fairly firm, so I aim slightly thin on the second ball, and the power on the break deflects the cue ball into a more full hit on the second ball.

Hitting the cueball with inside on the break brings a whole host of issues to worry about. Amongst them:

You hit the shot too firm, and you accidentally deflect the CB into a thin hit on the second ball.. Not good. not only will you probably not make a ball, but you can scratch straight in the corner off the second ball.

If you happen not to scratch directly, that thin hit on the second ball now sends the CB two rails into the back of the stack. A decent chance to carom off the back of the stack and into the other corner. A better chance to get stuck behind the rack with no shot.

That being said, my best break on a barbox was head ball, full hit, and a wrist snap at end, for 8 balls, and a wide open table. Second ball break almost always leaves a cluster or two... As Jazzy said above, though... Tough tables, second ball break seems pretty reliable.
 
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2nd ball break creates clusters is a myth. I’ve seen players make 4 balls on the 2nd ball break on a barbox and get out in 60 seconds. Multiple times. Most hit the 2nd ball too thin scared of kissing the head ball and scratching. Never heard of using inside. Stun is fine but I prefer a bit lower than a stun and a bit of outside. If you hit it full enough with power the cb with bounce off the long rail, hit the rack again and you’re almost guaranteed to make a ball in the side pocket ( same side you’re breaking from ). Don’t put the cb super close to the rail because your bridge will be shorter ( less power ).

That said I’d only use the 2nd ball break if I’m playing a super aggressive shot maker who’s never played one pocket + the table is extremely slow + he’s on the hill + I don’t have my break cue for some reason + my stroke is on vacation + 8 on the break is a win. If any of these factors not there I’m going for the head break because it’s way easier to break and run than make an 8 on the break. ( You don’t get points for almost making 8 on the break ). Keep working on your headball break. The only thing a 2nd ball break is good for is getting people yell out watch the 8! watch the 8! OMG! Oh so close did you see that? Then you sit in the chair and your opponent runs out. If you’re playing BCA rules never use the 2nd ball break unless you’re really really old and cant generate much speed or you’re not a runout player playing another not a runout player, so you’re hoping for a ballsagna, he runs 3 balls you runout scenario which is usually a horrible game plan. My 2 cents.
 
MattPoland said:
My experience is that the head-on (ish) break only works in ideal conditions with a masterfully tight rack. The second ball break might make more 8-balls but the real value is that it better spreads and pockets balls against a loose rack. Especially in cheap bars with cheap racks and hammered down felt and inexperienced opponents racking for you (or like me if you road rack yourself often). I end up with clusters along the side rail because breaking from the side can push the balls to one rail and the can bounce back to the other rail. But that doesn’t always happen. Sometimes it just spreads nicely. But it does seem to pocket more balls. I would estimate it only takes a 17-19 MPH break.


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I agree with the above and would add....
Be sure to have the cue ball far enough off the rail to have your hand on the bed of the table, about 6/7 inches. Breaking from the right side, use center ball with a touch of right English...maybe a 1/4 tip. Breaking from the left side, use a 1/4 tip of left.
 
A little late to the party on this one, but I've been fairly successful hitting the second ball lately.

I forced myself to learn it because the balls and racks in the pool halls around here are abysmal, leaving inconsistent gaps etc.

On a bar box, I have found that moving the cue ball far enough off the rail to allow for a level stroke will yield the best results. This will prevent the cue from flying off the table and also allows a bit more room to stroke the cue. I also stay low for the majority of the shot.

Dr. Dave's video is a great resource. Using stun (or a tad of draw) will make the cue ball hit the side rail and go straight back into the rack area.

Best of luck everyone.
 
You have to start his break from the far outside. pretty near the rail. And it needs to be outside low, same as the side you are breaking from. Enough to bring the cue ball back up table to center table off the rail. Say... 1-tip low, and about 1/2 tip outside. Now, with a super hard hit and stiff breakcue, the deflection should be heavy enough to send the cueball into the 2nd ball from a more shallow angle, far outside it's normal trajectory it would with a centerball hit. So, for this break with low outside you have to be aiming further down the side of the rack, more like at the 3rd ball due to the deflection back to the inside. :) Cool huh?

Embrace the juice - it will get you there.
 
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Bob Jewett said:
So, it might be good to use against a run-out player to slow them down?
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A good player will handle the cluster better than a weak player, it won't help to win, Just frustrating to play like that.
I love dealing with clusters but with second or third ball breaks it like playing straight pool and not 8ball
 
I always think the majority of the problem in my head is if the opponent is racking..Sometimes I look and the rack is way off the head mark, loose, or gaps. It's really hard to make a ball hitting the head ball dead on if the rack is not aligned and in league some of those players are way off.
 
Xdecemberguy said:
I always think the majority of the problem in my head is if the opponent is racking..Sometimes I look and the rack is way off the head mark, loose, or gaps. It's really hard to make a ball hitting the head ball dead on if the rack is not aligned and in league some of those players are way off.
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rack your own
looser racks is a thing of the past
 
nibrobus said:
Hey guys, just had a question for those of you who are proponents of hitting the 2nd ball on your 8 ball break (either ball behind the head ball).

What english/spin do you like to use when using this break? I've heard just draw, low inside, and low outside from several different sources. It's very difficult to make a ball on the break where I play due to the balls never being cleaned. Hitting the head ball with a power break either doesn't produce much spread or the balls just never seem to make a line towards any pockets. Most of the players that have success on the break tend to use the 2nd ball break.

I observed one player who had great results drawing the cue ball off the 2nd ball, into the rail, then back into the stack. He would repeatedly make between 2-3 balls with either a wide open or fairly open layout after. I asked him how he was hitting the break and he responded with low inside. I tried the break myself but my cue ball would spin off the side rail and behind the rack rather than back into it. Any advice on how I can duplicate his break? Thanks in advance for the help!
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This will help. Aim at the contact point where the 9 touches the wing ball. Allows a full hit use slight outside cueing, cb will come back across and strike the rack twice, like a pro 9 ball cue ball movement.
 
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