8 Ball position - video answer!

TheOne

TheOne

www.MetroPool.club
Silver Member
OK, I've wanted to have a go at one of these for a while but I've been looking for a video clip to add an extra twist.

This position was from the BCA 8 ball open two years ago (for a place in the last 8 if I recall). I think I was 2:0 up and my opponent had no shot on his last ball so he played safe, leaving me this position. Of course I am fav for the frame from here but curious to see how you guys would play it.

I will provide the video clip of how I played it a little later.
 

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TheOne said:
OK, I've wanted to have a go at one of these for a while but I've been looking for a video clip to add an extra twist.

This position was from the BCA 8 ball open two years ago (for a place in the last 8 if I recall). I think I was 2:0 up and my opponent had no shot on his last ball so he played safe, leaving me this position. Of course I am fav for the frame from here but curious to see how you guys would play it.

I will provide the video clip of how I played it a little later.
Click to expand...

Well, there are many, many ways to skin this cat, so I'll offer one of them.

As saving the eleven is valuable, I think I’d start with the fifteen in the corner. Though i expect to make it, it appears that a miss on the fifteen played soft wouldn’t leave any pocket for opponent to play the six into, as the diagonal bank and the cross-side bank appear to be blocked. Make the fifteen and play onto the ten and you can get the right angle onto the fourteen in the side for breaking out the twelve-thirteen cluster by going to the top rail and then into the cluster. This approach to the breakout would ensure shape onto the eleven, after which the rest of the runout should be fairly routine.

Oh, one last thing. You told us your opponent was on their last ball, so you had to be stripes!
 
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Thanks sjm, I realised that half way through typing it, thought I would finish the added comment for the less crpticically inclined ;-)

PS
From recollection I think the 6 would long bank into the corner leaving perfect position on the 8 - would you still play the same first shot?
 
Yeah I would play the 15 there and shape up on the 10 as well (SJM, you live here or something?) The shot for the breakout exists right now it looks like by shooting the 11 ball in the corner with follow and some good speed, missed it is a automatic loss though and even on a bar box it is feasably possible to miss that shot (EDIT, actually I looked at it again, it looks like the angle is not right, you would hit short of the 2 balls.). SJM would be thinking 14 for the breakout, I would be thinking 11 after shooting the 10 ball, getting the cueball into the center of the table or so gives you a natural angle to cut the 11 in and come off the rail for the breakout. I would play the breakout deep into the rail under the 12 ball (I cannot see the table writing this =/) so that is comes off the other ball, the 13? and towards the side pocket. comming off the 14 allows you to use the 11 ball as the next shot after the breakout, it is not bad either, but I would use the 11 due to the added accuracy of it.

There is also another option I really like, in vegas I have tended to play pretty tight and it normally has not let me down in both winning games, and getting my opponent off his game. Play the 15 ball, play the 10 for shape in the center of the table. Then play the solid hit on the 12 ball with weight to roll the cueball onto the rail behind the 13. Knowing the table to be straight that would be tempting as the guy would then be playing a 2 rail kick around the 11 to try and pocket the 6 in the corner and all your balls are now ducks. The chances of him making the shot are slim, the chances of you getting out when he misses are certain, and the chances that may get to him abit and affect him in the later games is possible. The matches where I played pure offense and ran everything always became shootouts with each player playing 3+ero's in the match. Seems you shoot awesome and high offense and alot of people will counterpunch ya in that alternate break format. Make a guy miss a couple shots due to hooks or leaving brutal tables and alot of guys in Vegas lose alot of their speed.
 
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Celtic, your second suggestion is the closest so far, although I think there is an obvious(to me) strong first shot that nobody has picked up on yet - although I concede its much harder to judge the anlges from the diagram. You where right in concluding that the angle wasn't there to break the balls first shot by playing long into the corner.

Additional info: The guy I was playing was a very good bank player!
 
Actually not a bad shot is to shoot the 11 straight into the 12 and 13 and stun the cueball to get it behind the 14. Since the side bank is not there that aint a bad shot as even if ya dont have the hook he aint gonna be looking too good. it breaks it all out and leaves all your balls up. Even the long kick on the 6 may get hooked by any one of the 11, 12 and 13 balls and force him to kick the end rail and make the 6 past the side pocket.

If you break out those balls like that and leave the cueball just past the side pocket he is in a world of hurt.

<edit> looked at it again. the only way to make sure ya get the breakout is to either hit the 11 into the 12 so the 12 banks straight across or hit the 12 thin with the 11. The 12 going across works better but it can tie up on the 6 ball, but then your opponent is shooting at a tied up 6 he does not want to move and he does not want to give up ball in hand, you have him by the nuts.
 
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Not a bad option celtic, and one I didn't think of at the time. I would have been a little nervous going near those massive side pockets and also a one cushion bank on the 6 is probably a little more than I would want to leave in such a big game, esp with the 8 sitting there if he makes it. But not a bad choice.

Theres still a shot that I thought stood out as pretty solid - to give you a clue, it had 3 elements to it!
 
3 elements make the 11 in the side, hide the cue behind the 8 safing a shot on the 6 from the opponent, set up to shoot 14 in the corner to brake out the 13,12
 
Another approach is eleven in the corner, soft enough to make or hang it, sending the cue ball behind the cluster along the long rail, to ensure you give nothing up if you miss the shot.

If you make the eleven, you can play the soft safety to open the cluster while hooking opponent, It's your rack after that. If you miss and hang the eleven, you've greatly simplified the patten to break out the cluster on your next trip to the table.

Still, this looks like a runout to me, and I think I'd probably play the fifteen with this much downside protection.
 
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sjm
You bring up the only concern I had about my solution. That being how hard I would have to hit to play the 11 into the side and get the cue ball all the way down table behind the 8.
 
How long was the race? I think I would of kicked him when he was down and play safe off the bat. Roll into the right side of the 15 to hide behind the eight, 10 is a bit of security if hit to hard. If I was fortunate enough to get a ball in hand I'd kick him again, dealing with that 12/13 cluster.
 
OK, since sjm has pretty much got it I will provide the answer:

It was a race to 5 and I didn't want to give up any strangth in my position. I played the 11 in the corner:

a) Played it slowly in order to cover the 6 in case I missed it.
b) Hoping to leave the white behind the cluster.
c) Hoping to make it so I can break up the cluster next shot

I actually over ran it a little as the tables where like glass but you can veiw what happened next here:

http://www.thelifeofriley.org/gallery/video.cfm

Turn the sound down but video should stream nicely.

Thanks for all the comments, this was more of a safety question but I wanted to provide a video answer so everyone can see what happened. I will try and find something better.

PS
I was 3:0 and 4:2 up and I somehow lost the match without missing a ball! :-(
 
Williebetmore said:
I enjoyed the video. Your opponent made a good kick, but it just didn't matter, you had him in jail.
Click to expand...

Cheers Willie, yeah not much he could do from where I left him
 
Your misfortune, TheOne, reminds of a great pool quote. A very wise man once said to me "the percentages don't always work, but they remain the percentages." The wise man was my father.
 
If i taped myself playing pool all you would here is

BEEP
BEEP
BEEP

oh my BEEP

nice shot
nice out

BEEP BEEP

Good Game
 
Tell me about it sjm, it sure was a learning experience - short races on bar boxes are real tought - esp if your break isn't strong.

LOL - now that sure would be a BEEP entertaining video LOL :-)
 
Not much he could do? That was a crap kick, basically gave away the game. The 2 rail kick would have gave him a legitimate chance to make the 6 and win and that kick he played instead at that speed had absolutely no way to work well. you got him into a tough spot and the way that guy played that kick he might as well have just racked the balls and not even made you shoot.

After seeing the video and the real angles I know for a fact I would not shoot the 15 there. I would jack up and punch the 11 into the 13 on it's left hand side with bottom right hand siding gatting the cueball to hit the rail at about the diamond before the side where the right hand spin would help kill the ball behind the 14. The 12 would come out close to the side pocket while the 11 and 13 would be somewhat close to the rail still but both would go. The chances the guy would have any shot would be slim.

The reason I dont like your shot is just what happend, you overhit the safety component of it and had it horned out the guy had a duck. The shot you shot I would only shoot to make, not as a conditional safety because trying to make both the safe and the pot at the same time lowers the chance to make either. Potting the shot to make it like you did worked well, especially since the guy had no heart or brains on how to play the kick after you did it. If you know you can make the pot shooting the 11 there is a good shot.

I would play the safe with the 11 into the 2 tied up balls and hook the guy behind the 14 all day there. Seeing it on video is alot easier to judge and I knew in about 3 seconds that is what I would play, I am not shooting the 15 there ever.

<edit>I looked at it again, still shocked the guy played that. He also could have took the foul and pushed the 12 onto his 6 ball, sure you are likely to get out anyways with a simple breakout (probably by using the 6 ball to punch the 12 back off the ball and thereby re-hooking him) but he may get a easier kick then to make. He had alot of options, he took the worst shot of them all imo, he might as well have just racked the balls.
 
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Celtic said:
Not much he could do? That was a crap kick, basically gave away the game. The 2 rail kick would have gave him a legitimate chance to make the 6 and win and that kick he played instead at that speed had absolutely no way to work well. you got him into a tough spot and the way that guy played that kick he might as well have just racked the balls and not even made you shoot.

After seeing the video and the real angles I know for a fact I would not shoot the 15 there. I would jack up and punch the 11 into the 13 on it's left hand side with bottom right hand siding gatting the cueball to hit the rail at about the diamond before the side where the right hand spin would help kill the ball behind the 14. The 12 would come out close to the side pocket while the 11 and 13 would be somewhat close to the rail still but both would go. The chances the guy would have any shot would be slim.

The reason I dont like your shot is just what happend, you overhit the safety component of it and had it horned out the guy had a duck. The shot you shot I would only shoot to make, not as a conditional safety because trying to make both the safe and the pot at the same time lowers the chance to make either. Potting the shot to make it like you did worked well, especially since the guy had no heart or brains on how to play the kick after you did it. If you know you can make the pot shooting the 11 there is a good shot.

I would play the safe with the 11 into the 2 tied up balls and hook the guy behind the 14 all day there. Seeing it on video is alot easier to judge and I knew in about 3 seconds that is what I would play, I am not shooting the 15 there ever.

<edit>I looked at it again, still shocked the guy played that. He also could have took the foul and pushed the 12 onto his 6 ball, sure you are likely to get out anyways with a simple breakout (probably by using the 6 ball to punch the 12 back off the ball and thereby re-hooking him) but he may get a easier kick then to make. He had alot of options, he took the worst shot of them all imo, he might as well have just racked the balls.
Click to expand...


I have to agree that I wouldn't have played the shot the way he did, I had just ran two racks on him so he prob new I was going to run out so I don't why he did what he did - he was almost saying finish it then? I may have played it two rails like you said as he atleast would have had a chance to make it, or I would more likely have played to tie balls up. If was going to play the way he did he might as well have blasted it to move some balls!

The funny thing is this guy ran out of position atleast 3 times on me and I thought I had the match won - every time he pulled out an outragous bank!

I wasn't so much as robbed in this match but raped!

:-(
 
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