8 Ball Rules Question

eastcoast_chris

eastcoast_chris

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Did some searching but couldn't find the answer.

Is there a rule where if you shoot your opponents balls and then shoot another one of them before you/they realize the error, that you then have that group?

And, if that is true... What would be the call if you did it on the last ball of the group and then pocketed the 8 ball before anyone realized... but then did notice the error?
 
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eastcoast_chris said:
Did some searching but couldn't find the answer.

Is there a rule where if you shoot your opponents balls and then shoot another one of them before you/they realize the error, that you then have that group?

And, if that is true... What would be the call if you did it on the last ball of the group and then pocketed the 8 ball before anyone realized... but then did notice the error?
Click to expand...
The various rule sets differ on what to do if the rack runs totally off the rails. You have to look at the rule set you are playing by.
 
The way I look at this rule, and pretty sure it's a rule in the official pro rule sets may not be in leagues, is that you can't hold on to a foul to be called at a later time. So you can't see a foul, wait for the guy to shoot in 4 more balls and then call it when it's more advantageous for you. Since hitting the other group is a foul, unless you call it as it happens, it's no longer a foul on the second shot. I have used this ruling a few times and have not had an issue with the players agreeing to the logic behind it.

Your opponent, not just you, has to be also paying attention to the match and what is done at the table, so if you do this and realize it, if they did not, that is also on them for texting their mom or ordering food or whatever instead of paying attention to the game. This always pisses me off a bit in leagues, the players just wander around, chat randomly, go order drinks. I'm always thinking, you are not watching the game, the guy can foul like 4 times while you are not looking and you are screwed.
 
The CSI rule is that if the error is discovered after the first shot, it is treated as a normal foul. If it is discovered after the second shot or later, the game will be reracked and replayed with the original breaker breaking.
 
eastcoast_chris said:
Did some searching but couldn't find the answer.

Is there a rule where if you shoot your opponents balls and then shoot another one of them before you/they realize the error, that you then have that group?

And, if that is true... What would be the call if you did it on the last ball of the group and then pocketed the 8 ball before anyone realized... but then did notice the error?
Click to expand...
I do know that in at LEAST ONE set of rules, this is true. I've read it. Damned if I can remember which one it was though.
 
David in FL said:
So, my opponent has one ball left. When he’s distracted, I pot his ball followed immediately by the 8 Ball.

I win! 😁


Even APA couldn’t be that goofy!
Click to expand...
Guess what? Quoting APA Rules :"
8-Ball - Once a player makes legal contact with
the 8-ball, the player assumes control of that
category of wrongly pocketed balls and can
win the game by legally pocketing the 8-ball.
In addition, if the sitting player does not call
a foul before the opponent’s turn ends, and
subsequently contacts the wrong ball during
their turn, both players will assume the new
category of balls for the remainder of the game."
 
marini3105 said:
Guess what? Quoting APA Rules :"
8-Ball - Once a player makes legal contact with
the 8-ball, the player assumes control of that
category of wrongly pocketed balls and can
win the game by legally pocketing the 8-ball.
In addition, if the sitting player does not call
a foul before the opponent’s turn ends, and
subsequently contacts the wrong ball during
their turn, both players will assume the new
category of balls for the remainder of the game."
Click to expand...
I stand corrected!

APA is that goofy! 😂
 
Had this exact thing a couple weeks ago. I had 3 balls on table with one solidly in a pocket, opponent had 4 balls up and it was their shot with a very easy shot to the side. I was distracted for a second and didn't watch the shot, but when I looked up after hearing a ball drop, I saw the cueball end up about where I thought it would for their next shot. Cue ball was on the rail, their next ball was about 3" away at about a 45 deg angle. I had a object ball out in the middle of the table, somewhat in line of their shot line that they would take to cut their ball to the corner. So when they lined up for the shot, from where I sat, it looked as though they were cutting their ball to the corner. Well, they shoot and pocket my ball that was in the middle in the opposite corner and I immediately call a foul. When I look in the ball return, we see that they shot my ball just before that also, and their partner said it was their balls now, as I didn't catch the 1st foul. That didn't sound right as my only ball left was in the pocket with an easy out of the 8. It also didn't seem right that I would get ball in hand for an easy win. We couldn't agree on what to do, so called league operator over, and after some rule search, found a ruling where where it said to replay game with original breaker breaking.
 
In our BCAPL league we are playing by CSI rules, which I just happened to have open on my computer.

From section 2.6 (establishing groups), item 3 of the 8-ball Rules:

"Once they are established, groups can never change for the remainder of that game. If
a player shoots the wrong group and no foul is called before the next shot and the player
continues to shoot at that group, or if at any time during the game it is discovered by
either player or a referee that the players are shooting the wrong groups, the game will be
replayed with the player who broke the game breaking again. If a game has ended and
then the players realize they shot the wrong groups, the game is not replayed and the
result stands.:
 
Protractor said:
In our BCAPL league we are playing by CSI rules, which I just happened to have open on my computer.

From section 2.6 (establishing groups), item 3 of the 8-ball Rules:

"Once they are established, groups can never change for the remainder of that game. If
a player shoots the wrong group and no foul is called before the next shot and the player
continues to shoot at that group, or if at any time during the game it is discovered by
either player or a referee that the players are shooting the wrong groups, the game will be
replayed with the player who broke the game breaking again. If a game has ended and
then the players realize they shot the wrong groups, the game is not replayed and the
result stands.:
Click to expand...
In the reply above it says groups can never change once established but in the example above that is exactly what happens, so what's the story?????
 
Just what it says.... you can't change your group once you have established it, but humans make mistakes so if someone doesn't remember which group they have or have some other brain fart, the rules cover that as well.
 
Protractor said:
In our BCAPL league we are playing by CSI rules, which I just happened to have open on my computer.

From section 2.6 (establishing groups), item 3 of the 8-ball Rules:

"Once they are established, groups can never change for the remainder of that game. If
a player shoots the wrong group and no foul is called before the next shot and the player
continues to shoot at that group, or if at any time during the game it is discovered by
either player or a referee that the players are shooting the wrong groups, the game will be
replayed with the player who broke the game breaking again. If a game has ended and
then the players realize they shot the wrong groups, the game is not replayed and the
result stands.:
Click to expand...

This puts the onus on YOU to keep your mind in the game and remember only ONE gigantic piece of information {Stripes or Solids}

And if you can't do either or both, you deserve what happens.
 
This is why I keep my phone in my case during league. I figure it is more respectful to my opponents and the game to actually pay attention to the game at hand to catch fouls or answer their questions. I watch my teammates play when I'm not playing and they are. There isn't anything on my phone that is more important than enjoying the game and the people I'm with. If I have a long wait during a tournament I'll occasionally check my texts to make sure everything is calm on the home front but that is it. I go to the pool hall to have fun.
 
So.... I'll explain why I asked this question in the first place.

In the game, I had one ball hanging in the corner. They had two, but one was near mine.
They tried to shoot their ball in/through my ball into the pocket.
For some reason they slammed it in with tons of draw. They made their ball, but not mine, which went flying around the table.
Then they scratched.
After the crazy shot my stripe ended up where their final solid was and the solid went out in the middle of the table.

I stupidly took ball in hand and shot in their solid and was perfect on the 8. Brain fart.

BUT, one of their players... not the person who I was playing pointed out that I shot the wrong ball. I still don't know if my opponent noticed or was going to call the foul. I was about to shoot the easy 8 in.

I swiped the balls and took the loss, but it seems I got screwed/screwed myself in this scenario.

I'll know for next time.
 
Grimper said:
I do know that in at LEAST ONE set of rules, this is true. I've read it. Damned if I can remember which one it was though.
Click to expand...
It might have been a rule blip/moment in time for earlier league rules, or major event?
It's not a bad rule (unless you're playing a Snake) but it doesn't have the feel of a rule for the sport/game.
If/When the snake bites in this manner, it then becomes an ''Saratoga'' moment.

If you've never played Saratoga 8 ball, you'll be impressed.
 
MitchAlsup said:
This puts the onus on YOU to keep your mind in the game and remember only ONE gigantic piece of information {Stripes or Solids}

And if you can't do either or both, you deserve what happens.
Click to expand...

Side note: In the same CSI rules, if a player doesn't know which group of balls is theirs (forgets or isn't paying attention), he/she can ask their opponent and the opponent must tell them (if they know...lol).
 
This is how I would see it. If my opponent made one of my balls, I didn't notice, shoots another one of my balls, I do notice, it's a foul all day long. Only way I can see it NOT being a foul is if you run the whole rack without anyone noticing lol.
 
eastcoast_chris said:
So.... I'll explain why I asked this question in the first place.

In the game, I had one ball hanging in the corner. They had two, but one was near mine.
They tried to shoot their ball in/through my ball into the pocket.
For some reason they slammed it in with tons of draw. They made their ball, but not mine, which went flying around the table.
Then they scratched.
After the crazy shot my stripe ended up where their final solid was and the solid went out in the middle of the table.

I stupidly took ball in hand and shot in their solid and was perfect on the 8. Brain fart.

BUT, one of their players... not the person who I was playing pointed out that I shot the wrong ball. I still don't know if my opponent noticed or was going to call the foul. I was about to shoot the easy 8 in.

I swiped the balls and took the loss, but it seems I got screwed/screwed myself in this scenario.

I'll know for next time.
Click to expand...
Ok, in addition to you fouling, the non-shooting player on the other team that spoke up also committed a foul - coaching! During a team play match under CSI rules, and VNEA (pretty sure APA says the same thing) no team member is permitted to coach or advise another team member who is at the table. If your situation were to have happened during a refereed match, you would have then needed to call the ref over to sort it out.

Our league team took 1st at the last VNEA state tournament (we are now BCAPL). During one of the games, their player committed a foul (did not hit a rail) but did not out themselves, so play was continuing because our shooter (me!) did not catch it. When this was observed by the other team one of their members took a chair next to our table just to listen in to make sure that one of our team members did not clue me in. So I shot a jump shot instead of getting ball in hand and won the rack anyways but obviously I wasn't paying close enough attention.
 
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