8 ball situation

trustyrusty

trustyrusty

I'm better with a wedge!
Silver Member
Last nite in league I had a situation playing barbox 8ball that was contested (and I lost the argument). Wanted to see how others would see it.

I had solids - CUETABLE added to 3rd post - and had the 5 and 7 near the upper right hand corner (if breaking). My opponent had the 15 in that corner in the jaws. I also had the 2 ball about mid table nearer the left side pocket. I purposely missed a ball up towards the left had top corner for a break out ball yet leaving him no real shot on the 15 (8 and 5 balls blocking one kick - 7 ball blocking the other). He knocked in that ball (the 2) giving me ball in hand. I shot my 7 into his 15 pocketing it and hooking near frozen behind the 5 ball (exactly what I wanted), but here's the conflict....I didn't expect the 7 to fall as well, and it did. I did not call safe or call a pocket for the 7 (which apparently can be implied). He said he assumed I wanted to make the 7 as well and it was my shot (he had a really tough kick just to hit the 8 ball). His teammates admitted it was obvious that I was trying to snuggle the cueball up too the 5 ball, but I should have called safe. My opponent stuck to the story of it NOT being obvious what I was doing for arguments sake, which is the only thing about the whole situation that ticked me off.

While I agree that calling safe would have taken care of everything, I still cannot believe my opponent would use the argument that he thought my intent was to pocket the 7 ball in the obstructed corner - he KNEW what I was doing, and took advantage of my ball falling as well. So, the question is, how can an opponent assume my intent on the table in pocketing a ball when I did not call a pocket, and still call me on not calling safe? I didn't call safe - true, but I didn't call a pocket for 7 the either....
 
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NewStroke said:
Let me guess, is this an APA match? Aside from counting innings, who cares it's still his shot provided the miss you had was a legal shot.
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not an APA match, and the fact that my ball went in (following his) is the cause for the dedate. In APA 8ball making an object ball would automatically give the shot to me - in my league you call call safe and pocket a ball. Plus in my league it is call pocket whereas in the APA it is not.
 

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this was the layout for my ball in hand. I was unsure the 7 would follow the 15, so I ducked the cue right behind the 5....
 
If it were APA it wouldn't matter, he'd still have to shoot as the only called shot in APA is the 8 ball.

I would've called safe there. The problem with other people sometimes is that we might think they know our intentions, but if nothing is called and made known to our opponent, we can't predict their interpretation of the situation.

I would assume if neither a safety was called, nor a pocket for the 7, that it would play as it lies to your opponent (I'm assuming BCA rules?).
 
trustyrusty said:
not an APA match, and the fact that my ball went in (following his) is the cause for the dedate. In APA 8ball making an object ball would automatically give the shot to me - in my league you call call safe and pocket a ball. Plus in my league it is call pocket whereas in the APA it is not.
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My bad, I missed that part. I would say you would have needed to call safety. I know some guys that would actually try to make that shot. Personally, I would have called safety. Calling it is always the safest play.
 
I have a question, seeing that I have not and will not ever play APA.

If you shoot a 2 - 5 combo without calling it, and it's not obvious, do you get to shoot again? or have to shoot again if you didn't call safe?

If the answer is NO, then this shot is not obvious either, therefore it wouldn't be your turn any longer.

fyi, any other league quantifies a legal made shot as an Obvious Shot. They also state than any Carom, Bank, Combo shot are not Obvious Shots and have to be called.
 
NewStroke said:
My bad, I missed that part. I would say you would have needed to call safety. I know some guys that would actually try to make that shot. Personally, I would have called safety. Calling it is always the safest play.
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oh, I agree, hindsight being 20/20. I will tell you though, it was an odd angle on the 7 - 15, and if I knew it woulda went FOR SURE, I wouldn't have put the cue ball where I did.

I was wondering though, if I would have made the 7 and had a better shot on the 5, if he'da gotten me for not calling the 7 in that pocket....lol, most likely he'd said he had no idea I had intended on the 7 following the 15 in.
 
stuckart said:
I have a question, seeing that I have not and will not ever play APA.

If you shoot a 2 - 5 combo without calling it, and it's not obvious, do you get to shoot again? or have to shoot again if you didn't call safe?

If the answer is NO, then this shot is not obvious either, therefore it wouldn't be your turn any longer.

fyi, any other league quantifies a legal made shot as an Obvious Shot. They also state than any Carom, Bank, Combo shot are not Obvious Shots and have to be called.
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In this situation, if it was the APA, he would have to shoot again because he dropped the 7 whether or not he called it. In APA everything is an obvious shot unless you intend not to make the shot. :)
 
stuckart said:
I have a question, seeing that I have not and will not ever play APA.

If you shoot a 2 - 5 combo without calling it, and it's not obvious, do you get to shoot again? or have to shoot again if you didn't call safe?

If the answer is NO, then this shot is not obvious either, therefore it wouldn't be your turn any longer.

fyi, any other league quantifies a legal made shot as an Obvious Shot. They also state than any Carom, Bank, Combo shot are not Obvious Shots and have to be called.
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That is what I was thinking - my shot on the 7 should have been called in the pocket it went in, since it was not 100% obvious - me not calling it - opponents shot.

as for the APA - which I'll say again, this wasn't - if you are solids, make legal contact with a solid initially, and make ANY solid, it is still your shot. SLOP, but the added caveat of initial legal contact. Oh, and you cannot pocket any of your object balls in any pocket and call safe in the APA - still your shot, again.
 
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I would say it is a appropriate to call shots when something OTHER than obvious (a bank or combo for example). In this case, it is not a trivial shot to make the 7, therefore, you would normally be forced to call the 7 if that was indeed your intent. Since you did not call the 7, you did not intend to make the 7. It's your opponent's shot.
 
trustyrusty said:
oh, I agree, hindsight being 20/20. I will tell you though, it was an odd angle on the 7 - 15, and if I knew it woulda went FOR SURE, I wouldn't have put the cue ball where I did.

I was wondering though, if I would have made the 7 and had a better shot on the 5, if he'da gotten me for not calling the 7 in that pocket....lol, most likely he'd said he had no idea I had intended on the 7 following the 15 in.
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I totally agree with you. No matter what happened, under the circumstances, you are in a lose/lose situation. I learned a long time ago to be explicit. Even then someone will misinterpret it. :)
 
mosconiac said:
I would say it is a appropriate to call shots when something OTHER than obvious (a bank or combo for example). In this case, it is not a trivial shot to make the 7, therefore, you would normally be forced to call the 7 if that was indeed your intent. Since you did not call the 7, you did not intend to make the 7. It's your opponent's shot.
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This makes sense, but how does your opponent know your intent without him telling you?
 
mosconiac said:
I would say it is a appropriate to call shots when something OTHER than obvious (a bank or combo for example). In this case, it is not a trivial shot to make the 7, therefore, you would normally be forced to call the 7 if that was indeed your intent. Since you did not call the 7, you did not intend to make the 7. It's your opponent's shot.
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My opponent knew if that was my intent (pocketing the 7), I would have said 7 in that corner following the 15, or something to that extent. He got me on not calling safe, and I know it, but I thought me not calling the pocket for the 7 would have swung the decision my way...it did not.

He played a safe on me in the previous game that I jumped out of and got out (with the heavy Valley cue ball), and that may have played a part in his attitude in the call too (my teammates reacted pretty loudly when I jumped a fairly close ball of his and drew back a couple of feet to make shape on a not so easy 8 ball). :rolleyes:
 
My vote is that you are right. I do not believe that pocketing the ball was an "obvious shot" so it was your opponent's turn to shoot.
 
It seems obvious that your are in the right since you're playing call pocket. However most shots are not normally called unless you're doing something unusual. Your opponent may not see the 7 ball following in as unusual so in honesty he may feel that he has some merit in his argument.

On the other hand I have seen something like this happen and the shooter says that he played it and wants to continue shooting because he has position on another ball.

In the future I would advise you to be more specific in these situations.

Now as to your shot selection with ball in hand I would have preferred to carom the 15 ball in off your 7 ball and using the 7 ball as a shield. This has less movement with the cue ball and it's a more effective safe.
 
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