8-ball vs 9-ball For TV

[jsp]

...But if the thread is pertaining to general interest, I find 8 ball to be less interesting. Why? Well, I believe I already stated my reason for that and thus, caused a large debate.

Okay, let's stick to the subject of the thread. Yes, I understand that you believe that 8ball takes "a fraction of the skill" than 9ball. That's perfectly fine if you think 8ball is an easier game...that's your opinion. Debating why one game is more difficult than the other is not relevant to the subject of this thread, so I will not continue to debate the issue in this particular thread.

The original question of this thread is which game should be televised? You initially say that 8ball shouldn't be televised because it is "boring". You also say that 8ball is a much easier game. So are you saying that 8ball is boring because it's an easier game? Well, you agree that one-pocket is more difficult than 8ball and 9ball. Should we then televise one-pocket instead? Lots of people think that's an even more boring game.

My point is that the excitement of a particular game is not always correlated with its difficulty level. So do you not want 8ball shown on TV because it's boring to watch or because it's an easy game? If you argue that it shouldn't be televised because it's easy, then you truly must be in favor of televising one-pocket or straight pool instead.

 

[pharaoh68]

My point is that the excitement of a particular game is not always correlated with its difficulty level. So do you not want 8ball shown on TV because it's boring to watch or because it's an easy game? If you argue that it shouldn't be televised because it's easy, then you truly must be in favor of televising one-pocket or straight pool instead.

JSP-
I will agree with you there. The excitement of a game does NOT always correlate to its difficulty level. If it did, no one would ever watch one-pocket. I, for one, find one pocket to be exciting and intriguing. I liken it to a chess match in which you position your pieces, all the while trying to force your opponent to commit an error. Then, you strike.

Perhaps the difficulty that I'm having is looking at it from a players perpective instead of from a spectators perspective. When I look at the spread of a table, I can see an out almost every time, be it 8 ball or 9 ball. That's not to say I get out every time. Not at all! I simply see it. In my eyes, creating the out in 8 ball is easier and thus, perhaps that is where my "blind spot" is. I am looking at it as a player and not a spectator.

Anyway, I prefer seeing 9 ball or even 10 ball on tv to 8 ball. But, thats just me.

 

[cigardave]

For the pool-playing masses, I believe that 8-ball would make for better ratings... if... the analysts discussed in detail (and had diagramming aids) to illustrate different variations of pattern play. Such as, they could show a couple of different patterns to get out and should be able to assign some difficulty %s to each shot and show why one pattern is better than another. Also, the analysts should also throw in some strategy discussion as well... such as playing safe at a certain point... or calling "safety" and still making a ball to avoid shooting again... etc.

And whenever they show a shot being taken after the fact, they should always have a picture of the cue ball in the corner of the TV screen with a dot showing where the cue ball was struck and approximately at what speed. Such information would be invaluable for lower-skilled players who currently don't understand the nuances of a 1/2 tip of either right/left... or draw/follow.

Fot the NON-pool-playing masses, I don't believe that it matters.

 

[Colin Colenso]

For the pool-playing masses, I believe that 8-ball would make for better ratings... if... the analysts discussed in detail (and had diagramming aids) to illustrate different variations of pattern play. Such as, they could show a couple of different patterns to get out and should be able to assign some difficulty %s to each shot and show why one pattern is better than another. Also, the analysts should also throw in some strategy discussion as well... such as playing safe at a certain point... or calling "safety" and still making a ball to avoid shooting again... etc.

And whenever they show a shot being taken after the fact, they should always have a picture of the cue ball in the corner of the TV screen with a dot showing where the cue ball was struck and approximately at what speed. Such information would be invaluable for lower-skilled players who currently don't understand the nuances of a 1/2 tip of either right/left... or draw/follow.

Fot the NON-pool-playing masses, I don't believe that it matters.

Hi Cigar Dave,
I like the idea of estimating the out percentage. Though it couldn't be based on a mathematical model, what they could perhaps do in post production is survey 5 experts for out % estimates or shot making estimates shot by shot, and show the expert's predictions and average predictions.

I think that would create additional interest for viewers, such as seeing some guy is going for a shot estimated at 30% chance and then he makes it. They'll get some feeling of the achievement of that shot. Or when an out is rated at 25% chance and then the player makes a good shot and breaks up a cluster to make it a 90% run out chance.

Such experiential tools would help the viewer to perceive what is great vs what is standard and give them a great insight into analyzing the major challenges of the game.

I will pass on this suggestion to the IPT for future production consideration. Great idea I think!!

 

[hobokenapa]

I believe 8ball is a "better test of a player's overall skill" than 9ball.

This is absolutely true. At regional events, you get different winners in 9-ball every week. In 8-ball, the best player(s) win. It's that simple.

 

[cigardave]

Hi Cigar Dave,
I like the idea of estimating the out percentage. Though it couldn't be based on a mathematical model, what they could perhaps do in post production is survey 5 experts for out % estimates or shot making estimates shot by shot, and show the expert's predictions and average predictions.

I think that would create additional interest for viewers, such as seeing some guy is going for a shot estimated at 30% chance and then he makes it. They'll get some feeling of the achievement of that shot. Or when an out is rated at 25% chance and then the player makes a good shot and breaks up a cluster to make it a 90% run out chance.

Such experiential tools would help the viewer to perceive what is great vs what is standard and give them a great insight into analyzing the major challenges of the game.

I will pass on this suggestion to the IPT for future production consideration. Great idea I think!!

Thanks Colin.

Guess that you didn't like my idea of showing where the cue ball is being contacted on each shot... j/k brother.

 

[PJT18]

PCs article had to be written pre IPT.Money talks and KT has put up the cash so 8ball for good or bad will become the game of choice.The pros will go where the money is.They supported ESPN 7 ball and Mohegan Son's Champions of Champions both garbage in my mind because they offered decent money until IPT purses shot them all to hell.Remember there are by BCA numbers 20 million casual pool players in NA and most play 8 ball.

 

[Cameron Smith]

One thing that I realized while playing pool today was that with every ball you pocket in 9 ball the run out gets easier. There are less obstacles so there are more paths to the next ball. On the other hand in eight ball with every shot the run out gets harder. You have less oppurtunities to break out clusters and there is less room for error as well. Just a thought.

 

[Masayoshi]

i think i prefer watching 9 ball, although 8 ball may be a better game. 9 ball is generally more exciting at the pro level because they more often than not have to make at least a great shot or two per rack to get out. where as in 8 ball it seems they get out almost as effortlessly as they would a wide open straight pool rack, only occasionally shooting a long cut, short bank or combo to get out.

 

[Colin Colenso]

Thanks Colin.

Guess that you didn't like my idea of showing where the cue ball is being contacted on each shot... j/k brother.

hehe...on the contrary. I think there could be a lot of improvements as far as visual overlays, from telestration (drawing lines on screen to indicate options) to ball magnification, visuals of where CB was hit, speed of each shot (maybe even spin / speed ratios), super slo-mo replays etc.

All this could give the viewer deeper view and appreciation of the playing process.

Great graphics improvements in golf, tennis and cricket have added a lot to otherwise stale and unclear images.

 

[chefjeff]

By saying that 8 ball players have the freedom to choose, you are merely illustrating my earlier point that 8 ball is indeed an easier game. You are not forced to follow one specific path. The difference is simple:

(snip).

Freedom is not always "easier." Freedom, in every area of life--not just pool, leads to more happiness, imho, in that one gets to choose one's route to victory...it isn't exactly determined by the layout as is usually the case in 9-ball. Pool players, generally speaking, crave freedom to do as they please. Hustlers, road players, pros traveling to wherever, etc. demonstrate the freedom philosophy in action.

I think 8-ball is a good representation of this concept and I think pool spectators can live vicariously through professionals' 8-ball play. 9-ball is fine and dandy, but lacks this dimension.

Jeff Livingston

 

[lewdo26]

Ok. If you are basing the argument on interest as it relates to seeing a player "connect the dots" so to speak and get out of each rack, 8 ball can be just as easy as 9 ball. Remember, we are talking about professional players here. These guys can get out of an 8 ball rack just as easily as they can a 9 ball rack. But if the thread is pertaining to general interest, I find 8 ball to be less interesting. Why? Well, I believe I already stated my reason for that and thus, caused a large debate.

pharaoh68,

Why don't you tell us how much experience/knowledge you have of 8 ball? I ask that not to test you in any way, or to claim superior knowledge of 8 ball (I don't possess it) or pool for that matter; but because your arguments appear to be those of someone who hasn't played the game enough...

Whenever folks start talking about "you can shoot any ball" there is just an instant bell going off in my head! I do not want to assume it is the case with you (and that is why I ask the initial question), but *the overwhelming* majority of people I heard say 8 ball is easy "'cause you can shoot any ball" don't understand that, in 8 ball, pocketing balls is a DISADVANTAGE unless you run all the way out.

Once you understand that the challenge is to get all the way out or be dead (!!), you'll understand that being an inch out of position in 8 ball can cost you many, many games.

In 9 ball it's mostly about being on the right side of the ball. In 8 ball, like straight pool, an inch is everything. That's exactly why, when jsp asked you about games where you can pocket all 15 balls at any time (one pocket, banks, straight pool) you addressed the first two games but not 14.1. The reason being that, by your measure of difficulty, straight pool is the easiest game there is! And that doesn't sound as good!

 

[Renegade]

I still think ROTATION is the game to beat!