8ball 7' vs 9'

Texas3cushion said:
Easier to make balls yes, not necessarily easier to run out.

On average you lose your turn at the table on the 9' because you missed.

While on the 7' on average you lose your turn at the table because you didn't get position or don't have a good/practical shot.
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Go try 100 innings on each and report back. You can count successful run outs if you like instead of balls pocketed.

I did it with straight pool. That game has more clusters than any other. Not only did my total balls pocketed go way up, so did my high runs.
 
King T said:
If there was no BarBox Pool the game would be dead. Most sports bars, Pubs and many hotels have BB and thats another form of advertisements for our game. There are 350,000 APA, BCA, TAP and Valley BarBox players, so theres more than enough support for the games on the BB table and if you ask those players to try to figure out the game on a 9footer they'd leave the game and take their Money with them.
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i totally agree on that. i was just referring to the pro side of it. it's the same thing in the UK, the bar tables represent most of the cue sports being played (by far), i just don't care for watching the pros play it.
 
The difference in size just puts emphasis on different strengths.
The straight pool champion will shine on the bar box playing 8 ball. Often delicate manipulation of the balls. The 9 ball champion on the 9 foot table, which has more wide open spaces requiring less manipulation but sometimes more horsepower to navigate the longer track.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Go try 100 innings on each and report back. You can count successful run outs if you like instead of balls pocketed.

I did it with straight pool. That game has more clusters than any other. Not only did my total balls pocketed go way up, so did my high runs.
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14.1 clusters and 8 ball clusters are much different.

In 8 ball I have 7 chances to break out a ball.

In 14.1 I have 14 chances to break out balls.

In 8 ball you have to make your way around your opponents balls. (or risk breaking out yours from theirs and bumping theirs back into yours)

while in 14.1 you can shoot any ball at any time.

You have more options if you get out of shape.
 
I have been to a couple of World 8-ball Championships played on nine footers. In my experience, the game is too easy for the top pros. Irving Crane was on record as having said the same.

The game is usually won by the big breakers, as those who spread the rack well seem to get out almost every time. In a memorable match at the 2013 US Open 8-ball, SVB and Biado combined to break and run 18 of their first 20 racks on the nine-footer. Most of the racks are issue-less, but that's not as true on the bar-boxes, and eight ball is a much more interesting game on a bar-box, which involves opening clusters through tight windows.

Darren Appleton's World Pool Series made it a little harder with the "take what you make" version, and that's a better way to play eight ball.

With outrageously tight pockets (as in Blackball and Chinese Eight Ball), the game is less repetitious at pro level, but it can drag on at times.
 
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Texas3cushion said:
14.1 clusters and 8 ball clusters are much different.

In 8 ball I have 7 chances to break out a ball.

In 14.1 I have 14 chances to break out balls.

In 8 ball you have to make your way around your opponents balls. (or risk breaking out yours from theirs and bumping theirs back into yours)

while in 14.1 you can shoot any ball at any time.

You have more options if you get out of shape.
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Did you do it?

This question comes up every year. Everyone has an opinion but no one actually tests their opinion. I did.

The only other person I’ve ever heard to at least give it a go is Thorsten.
 
Texas3cushion said:
With the mens world 8 ball championship going on, it kind of got me thinking...

Which do you think is harder, 8b on the 7' or 9'?

Which do you prefer to watch? 7' or 9'

Do pros on average run out more on one table vs the other?

Personally I'd rather play 8ball on 7' because I like maneuvering thru traffic,
breaking out balls, less sq ft to get shape therefore requires a well thought out pattern, etc...

There are some guys here in Houston that play it on the 9' and I can't stand to watch it. but on the 7' it's a joy.

I guess i'm kind of upset we don't get to see the USBTC anymore.
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I agree with you. And I don’t care so much what is easier or harder for pros. When they did the USBTC with template racks it was relatively easy for the pros to break and run. But not automatic. And a match with two top players playing and breaking well carried its own pressure when failing to B&R one time might be fatal. That is interesting.

Watching some of the good bar box tournaments on YouTube is interesting. Say in that Faribault MN one. Two 700s on a valley aren’t going to B&R every time. I like watching it.

I played in a senior 8 ball event recently where my age bracket played on the 9’ Diamonds because all the 7’ diamonds were used in other divisions. This weekend played in a bar table 8 ball event. I kinda prefer the 7’ game. Seems to work out that you beat worse players and lose against better players on either. But one pocket on the 9’ helps with some safeties and strategy. Funny how some of the best players seem to play well on both. Funny how on the boxes the best players at the end aren’t losing to worse players because the tables are so easy.

The game doesn’t have to be torture to be challenging and skillful. It is ok if it is fun. But hey, maybe a good game for the pros is rotation on a 20’ table with pyramid balls and pockets.
 
Texas3cushion said:
No because we're talking about 8 ball. Not 14.1
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Nothing stopping anyone from trying it in their game of choice:)

Distance is the most fundamental thing that makes pool harder. It trumps clusters. Even adding a foot to straight in draw shot practice drills has quite a large effect on making the ball and getting the intended position. Running out a rack is a series of about 8 shots. The easier each shot, the chances of running all the way out increase exponentially.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Did you do it?

This question comes up every year. Everyone has an opinion but no one actually tests their opinion. I did.

The only other person I’ve ever heard to at least give it a go is Thorsten.
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I haven't done what you suggested, but I have done something similar.

The first 3 sessions I played league, it was on 9 ft. Gold crown clones. After 3 sessions the bar owner swapped to valleys with Ridgeback rails.

It's a fact my BnR percentage was higher on the 9 footers, easily verifiable by APA stats, and although I don't have the actual numbers, I'm pretty sure my average innings per rack went up as well.

Not exactly scientific, but just this ol bangers experience.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Nothing stopping anyone from trying it in their game of choice:)

Distance is the most fundamental thing that makes pool harder. It trumps clusters. Even adding a foot to straight in draw shot practice drills has quite a large effect on making the ball and getting the intended position. Running out a rack is a series of about 8 shots. The easier each shot, the chances of running all the way out increase exponentially.
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If this was true then why didn't Judd Trump win the U.S. Open?
 
It’s all good. Just it’s easy to test this now. In the old days we had 6’ and 7’ Valleys with beer stained carpet, crooked slate, chipped non-phenolic balls, and the easiest pockets ever made. On the 9’ side we had GC’s with simonis and centennial balls. There was no way to compare the two.

Now we have diamond 7’ and 9’, both with the same pockets, cloth, aramith balls, and “good player’s condition”.

Anyone can try for themselves and answer the question. Maybe it will be that a smaller table is harder. The point is no one ever does it. I bet if 10 of us in this thread simply played 10 innings each on a 7’ Dianond and a 9’ Diamond, we’d have really good data combining all of our attempt’s together.

I actually tried this at my local room about 15 years ago. (For 9 ball). I found 4 players, told them I’d pay all their times to play 10 innings of the 9 ball ghost on 3 tables. A bucket GC. A triple shimmed GC. And a league cut 7’ Diamond. I prepared score sheets for them and printed them out. Every single player quit after a few min. They were all embarrassed at their scores and didn’t want to continue.
 
I have a very tight Centennial (please see the table difficulty thread). I prefer playing on a 9ft. I play double jeopardy USAPL leagues on 7 foot Diamonds.

It’s my opinion that 8 ball on a 7ft is harder. I’m not a champion but I’m not a slouch either. My handicap just dropped to a 580. Anyway, this is an interesting thread.
 
mikemosconi said:
Personally not crazy about playing anything on a bar box. Pros -they can maneuver well on a crowded bar box - especially the top pros. I see them run out equally on either size table.
You have to deal with less problems on a 9 foot - but running from the break on a 9 foot still requires great skill with 14 or 15 balls on the table. If that seems to easy for some than either you are a world class pro or you just don’t appreciate great skill.
I like 8 ball more than 9 ball on a 9 foot and vice versa on a bar box.
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Last pocket 8 ball is a fantastic game on the barbox.

Funny aside about that... I met my wife at the tail end of a very serious 1 month practice session when I took a month leave from the military. I took her to my home hall in Tacoma, WA, and we played 8 ball on semi-loose 9 foot Gold Crowns.

We were very far apart in skill, and I had a hard rule at that time (still do, actually) to NEVER lay down for any reason, and to wreck my brain to find a way to win. I tried to handicap the game in a number of ways, but what we ended up onwas me playing one handed last pocket 8 ball, where I had to bank the 8. The handicap got that rediculous, because I was actually running out playing normal, one handed. I wanted her to win some games, but I refused to let upon a single stroke.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Every pool game under the sun is way easier on a 7’ than a 9’. It’s not even close. If you want to prove it for yourself, play the ghost on each size for a few days straight. Play 8 ball, 9 ball, straight pool. Count up the total balls you made on each discipline. It won’t be close. I personally did this about 10 years ago. Played straight pool on both sizes for about 100 innings. I made about double the balls on the 7’.

And the pockets were about the same. It was a league cut 7’ Diamond vs a factory cut 9’ GC.
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Eh. I would say that Rotation is tougher on a bar box than a 9 footer, simply because of of clusters and tight position zones.
 
Very small sample size, proves nothing. I rarely have access to a 9’. I’ve beaten the 8 ball ghost, race to 7, one time. Not sure how many attempts, not many. I have tried many times on a 7’, can’t get there.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Nothing stopping anyone from trying it in their game of choice:)

Distance is the most fundamental thing that makes pool harder. It trumps clusters. Even adding a foot to straight in draw shot practice drills has quite a large effect on making the ball and getting the intended position. Running out a rack is a series of about 8 shots. The easier each shot, the chances of running all the way out increase exponentially.
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I will take distance over clusters any day of the week - you overcome distance with speed control and proper stroke mechanics on longer shots. Multiple clusters in an 8 ball game require much more precise planning and position execution as well as having the clusters open up to your advantage - you have more factors working against you with a cluster laden layout than just having a wide open table with some distance. This is my opinion based on my own shooting confidence - I would rather shoot at open tables 9 foot over clusters 7 foot any day of the week - confidence in both aspects of shotmaking and position play as well as pattern selection to minimize cue ball movement on a 9 foot - that comes from 14.1.
 
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