9 Ball Hitting Hard and Hoping as a Strategy

[lorider]

I would hate to follow myself playing. I get the best leaves on a miss without even trying. I want to make the OB first and foremost, but if I miss I almost always leave a terrible shot. I'll leave a little meat on the bones, but it's not a shot anyone would want. If the ball happens to fall I'll always have shape on the next ball. Often it's the next ball that snookers my opponent or makes it very difficult to get shape.

I used to sell out all the time on misses. Now I barely ever do. I think it's just subconscious at work because I could see once in a while, but when I miss it's probably 80% chance they will have a 5% chance type shot. The less I think about pool the better my shape becomes. It's weird.

I can't really explain it but I know how to hit a ball so the geometry adds up to very difficult shot if I miss. I don't want to try to comprehend it either. Better to ride the lightning than to try to catch it in a bottle. Lightning in a bottle just don't stay there.

I dont think a lucky leave by my opponent causes me to go full tilt as much as all the slop shots prior to the lucky leave.

Its probably due to i grew up playing in bars where you call everything.

I consider myself one of the better kickers in league...at my handicap. I was playing an 8 in 9 ball one night who i am pretty friendly with. About halfway through the match he commented that i kicked out of every safe he made. I said oh you were playing safes ? I thought you just missed the shot. I said if you want to play a good safe on me just leave me a long straight in cause i will miss them every time.

Last session i had a 4 beat me real bad. 18-2 bad. I will probably never forget that match. Make a good 3 ball run. Slop in a couple and leave me hooked. The entire match went like that. I am talking about so many unbelievable shots that her entire team was laughing the entire match. All i could do was stand there and shake my head ...slop after slop all at warp speed. She was going to 31. I know without a doubt at least 18 of those points were due to slop shots.

The following week i lost to the strongest 9 in our division by one point. Those 2 matches are perfect examples of how i play when i go full tilt after playing low level slop players compared to completely focused against the strongest player in our division.

 

[philly]

I would hate to follow myself playing. I get the best leaves on a miss without even trying. I want to make the OB first and foremost, but if I miss I almost always leave a terrible shot. I'll leave a little meat on the bones, but it's not a shot anyone would want. If the ball happens to fall I'll always have shape on the next ball. Often it's the next ball that snookers my opponent or makes it very difficult to get shape.

I used to sell out all the time on misses. Now I barely ever do. I think it's just subconscious at work because I could see once in a while, but when I miss it's probably 80% chance they will have a 5% chance type shot. The less I think about pool the better my shape becomes. It's weird.

I can't really explain it but I know how to hit a ball so the geometry adds up to very difficult shot if I miss. I don't want to try to comprehend it either. Better to ride the lightning than to try to catch it in a bottle. Lightning in a bottle just don't stay there.

I guess you are saying that you get all of the rolls.
Never seen that.
In my experience the rolls always change.

 

[ShootingArts]

I agree totally, it takes a good player to calculate when the shot is as good of a chance with a hit and hope hit vs a more controlled softer hit.

Here is a real world example.

I just had a shot with a situation like this last night on a fast 7' bar table with large pockets and a heavy cueball. Had a kick at a ball, the 9 was near the area of the ball I was hitting. I actually told my friend that I'm going for the 9, made the hit, cueball went one rail across, hit the point of the opposite pocket, bounced out and made the 9. Was it a full "aimed precision" shot? Not really, if I was aiming at it 100% my goal was to hit the lower side of the ball, then carom the 9 directly. Did I know that if I picked a faster speed and a good hit on the kick with the odd physics of the heavy ball I had a chance to make the 9 in several ways? Yep, sure did, and that's what I whacked at with my best hope and pray stroke to win the game LOL. If I picked some softer kick, there was as much chance as selling out an easy shot as anything else since the table was so fast and the cueball was heavier than the object balls so the hit physics are not as predicable. I decided a harder hit with less control was the right shot here, and it was, I won the game.

Green = cueball
Grey = object ball
Yellow = 9 ball
View attachment 645188

Nice shot! Had to comment about the physics with the mudball though. To me and some others of the main era of the big cue ball, we remember it fondly and would say the physics using it were more predictable. A regular sized cue ball wears faster than any other ball as contact and flex pops off tiny flecks of material when balls hit each other. Because the cue ball is used on the break that speeds up wear too. With the oversized ball it remains the biggest heaviest ball on the table and you can trust it to be the eight hundred pound gorilla!

I didn't play on the Valleys for ages. Then when I tried to tune on one I forgot even the new cue balls kick differently than an object ball banks, adjustments required!

I would hate to follow myself playing. I get the best leaves on a miss without even trying. I want to make the OB first and foremost, but if I miss I almost always leave a terrible shot. I'll leave a little meat on the bones, but it's not a shot anyone would want. If the ball happens to fall I'll always have shape on the next ball. Often it's the next ball that snookers my opponent or makes it very difficult to get shape.

I used to sell out all the time on misses. Now I barely ever do. I think it's just subconscious at work because I could see once in a while, but when I miss it's probably 80% chance they will have a 5% chance type shot. The less I think about pool the better my shape becomes. It's weird.

I can't really explain it but I know how to hit a ball so the geometry adds up to very difficult shot if I miss. I don't want to try to comprehend it either. Better to ride the lightning than to try to catch it in a bottle. Lightning in a bottle just don't stay there.

Replying to you and lorider, I had to learn that all of the slop in balls and accidental safes as well as rearranging all the furniture seemingly every shot was just part of some people's game. Awkward boxers can be extremely hard to beat because "they don't do things right". When I realized that these awkward pool players could be hard to beat for the same reason, their awkwardness took me out of my game, I got far better playing them. The biggest reason was I no longer got upset about all the variance. I accepted it as part of their game.

Another thing about playing these low level players, you need to rethink what safeties are. When I see a weak safety I'm not going to play it against a player near or above my level. However, playing these weak players it is better to give them low percentage shots for them than to leave them no shots at all. Give them distance, give them tough cuts, but let them see something to shoot at. If not you know what is coming, WHACK! Every ball on the table is moved and your easy out just turned into a tangle of snakes.

Playing near equal players, mostly playing the table is reasonable. Playing very weak players, playing the player is easier and probably a better strategy. Give the guy or gal that can't reach lot of shots a shot that makes them stretch. Make them shoot over balls or from against the rail.


Meant to post this last night and got sidetracked. Reading other posts since I wrote this one made me think about Boogie getting lucky. A sneaky old road player scouted me on a bar table for two nights and a piece of a third. He didn't like what he was seeing and decided to just talk to me. When he said some very kind words I tried to dismiss them as I just got the rolls. Got many a laugh over his reply. "The first night I thought you were lucky, the second night I still thought it might be luck, nobody in the world gets as lucky as you three nights in a row!" Damn, busted. I had put in enough hours to get a college degree but at that time I "owned" the mud ball.

Hu

 

[alstl]

I played in a league once and a kid on our team hit every shot at max speed. Big kid. Worked at a car wash. I kind of felt sorry for the guy until one night at the league he showed up with not one but two young gals. I stopped feeling sorry for the kid after that. He was hitting it hard.

 

[Minnesota Phat]

I would hate to follow myself playing. I get the best leaves on a miss without even trying. I want to make the OB first and foremost, but if I miss I almost always leave a terrible shot. I'll leave a little meat on the bones, but it's not a shot anyone would want. If the ball happens to fall I'll always have shape on the next ball. Often it's the next ball that snookers my opponent or makes it very difficult to get shape.

I used to sell out all the time on misses. Now I barely ever do. I think it's just subconscious at work because I could see once in a while, but when I miss it's probably 80% chance they will have a 5% chance type shot. The less I think about pool the better my shape becomes. It's weird.

I can't really explain it but I know how to hit a ball so the geometry adds up to very difficult shot if I miss. I don't want to try to comprehend it either. Better to ride the lightning than to try to catch it in a bottle. Lightning in a bottle just don't stay there.

Interesting. I'm finding that as I develop more experience, the same thing is happening for me more often. Last night I was playing a casual player, and it was absurd how many times in a row I left her with nearly impossible shots, varying between intentional safeties and "lucky" safeties off of misses. Starting cold, I couldn't pocket a ball to save my life, but I still ended up winning, even though her pocketing was better in that particular game.

 

[boogieman]

I guess you are saying that you get all of the rolls.
Never seen that.
In my experience the rolls always change.

Busted! Well, that's the thing. I don't really think they are rolls. It's like the concept of missing on the "pro side" type deal. I pretty much know where the CB will end up if I miss. I don't really think about it, but it's pretty easy to leave very tough, even open table type shots if you miss correctly. Like the ones with an OB on the middle diamond on the end rail and the CB on the other end rail. Speed control has a ton to do with it. It's not like I'm that great or anything but I just find it kind of built in to leave bad shots if I miss. I'd much rather make the ball, but putting out a low percentage shot for your opponent that is just too tempting can often lead to good results.

@ShootingArts good thoughts. That may be some of what's going on. I just find it pretty easy to leave a bad shot were I to miss. It's kind of like a free roll concept in one pocket. If I can maybe (say 50% chance) make something, I'll try it but I'll be 90% sure that if it doesn't go in I'm not leaving anything.

I really don't ever make a big deal out of it and unless I'm feeling particularly devious I pass most of my safes off as whoops I missed and happened to get a lucky leave. To be perfectly honest I get a real chuckle out of planning a safe or CB leave as part of a two way and leaving my opponent cursing rolls. I don't even play for money but I like it when they think it was good luck/bad luck that caused it and not skill or a two way type shot.

Interesting. I'm finding that as I develop more experience, the same thing is happening for me more often. Last night I was playing a casual player, and it was absurd how many times in a row I left her with nearly impossible shots, varying between intentional safeties and "lucky" safeties off of misses. Starting cold, I couldn't pocket a ball to save my life, but I still ended up winning, even though her pocketing was better in that particular game.

Yeah, IDK it may just be a phase all players go through at some point. I really don't know but as long as it works I'm not going to question it. I find that 1P, both playing and watching pros in action greatly helps. It's like... you don't really have to make all the shots all the time. Against great players it's suicide but if you can outmove people slightly better, at your level, or lower level it works really well. Not the smartest against a runout player, but there's also strategy for that. Let them see a piece of a ball (a little meat on the bones to set the trap) but there's no real way to get shape from that piece. Wrong angles, scratch traps, etc.

What's real fun is when you get the type of player that can't see you're doing so on purpose and get them really irate at luck. I really enjoy 9B for this reason. A lot of luck is a calculated risk. Some people can't see dead caroms and such and these shots can blow their mind. My favorite is when the 9 is a dead combo and you carom into the combo, or hit a rail first or such. Reading the rack in straight pool and 1P also can tune you in to seeing some of the wired shots that are easy to miss.

The first rule of 1P is don't sell the farm. I try to never sell the farm if I can help it. Do I ever miss and sell out? You bet, almost every time I lose!

 

[hang-the-9]

Just watched the Masters tournament, in the commentary Jim Rempe said several times in the match hitting for luck was the right choice. I think we can trust Rempe at least hehe.

This was the match: Earl Strickland vs. Cory Deuel | The Masters Championship - 2001
The shot I remember was a kick Cory was doing and Jim said he tried to baby it too much, should have hit it hard, and give the ball a ride.