9 Ball Hitting Hard and Hoping as a Strategy

[Texas Carom Club]

I don't think it's harder, in fact for good players it's way easier, no need to worry about running out most of the rack and leaving the 8 or 9 for the other guy. Less pressure. In a "real" game you need to actually win the game not just make more shots, especially when giving up a bunch of weight, I have played a lot of matches with like a 6-2 handicap, and seeing a player tap in a 9 or an 8 and 9 hanging for them to get to the hill on one shot is not fun. There is a lot of pressure to play at the top of the game for the better player, except in APA where making the 9 is just a 2 point gain instead of a win. I could let some 3 or 4 make the 9 every time, technically lose every game, but still win because I can outshot them in the rest of the balls made.

I played a doubles event with my son on a tight table, the other players were way worse than us, it was a 5-3 race and we lost hill-hill, because we would run out the rack to the 8 or 9, just barely miss and leave them an easy shot. We made 90% of the shots in the set but they won because the shots they made were the game winning ones that were sitting in pockets for them. With APA rules they would have lost like 60-8 or something. Making the 9 early is not that common in games, a lot more common is leaving the last few balls sitting easy for the opponent.

The better player always win overall, they probably don't make that mistake of leaving the 8&9 much in regular 9
Having to keep a 3 at bay when your playing to 56 points or so on a bar table is grueling and difficult in its own
From my experiences, lots of opportunities to get out of rythm and in a bad mindset

 

[lorider]

So if a player gets beat by the lucky banger.... maybe, just maybe they really aren't the B+ player they think they are.

Are you sure about that ?

I play apa double jeapordy. Thsts where we play both 8 and 9 ball the same night. There are guys who i play that play 9 ball e actly like the op described. They usually beat me pretty bad in 9 ball. I usually beat them 4-0 or 4-1 in 8 ball.

So who is the better player in the above scensrio ? The guy who smacks balls hoping something goes somewhere or the guy who has a better grasp of cue ball control...saftey play and pattern selection that it takes to win 8 ball ?

Had a former team mate come up bragging about becoming a 7 in 9 ball. I am a 6. He plays slam them when a shot is not available. I told him congrats on being raised. In 9 ball but he is still not as good a player as me.

He challenged me a race to 7 in 9 ball for 20.00. I told him i did not gamble on slop or luck but would be willing fo play himna race to 7 in 10 ball for 40.00. I won 7 -2.

He still talks smack every once in a while about being higher rated than me and i tell him lemme know when he fells like losing another 40.00 to me. Shuts him up real quick..

 

[tomatoshooter]

Even Buddy Hall, one of the most controlled players ever, has said "sometimes blasting them is the right strategy".

One of the matches Buddy Hall and Billy Incardona were commentating

BH: If you fire a ball into a cluster and something goes in, did you get lucky or make a good shot?

BI: Well, it depends...

BH: Did you get lucky or make a good shot?

BI: I would say you made a good choice.

BH: You'll do anything not to agree with me!

 

[tomatoshooter]

we would run out the rack to the 8 or 9, just barely miss and leave them an easy shot

A wise man said "Don't run 8 if you can't run 9."

I don't think it's harder, in fact for good players it's way easier, no need to worry about running out most of the rack and leaving the 8 or 9 for the other guy.

So maybe point 9 ball is harder for the good player. Or Texas Express is easier for the hack. Or every game is almost exactly how hard your opponent makes it. The fact is that most pool players can't run enough balls in rotation for Texas Express 9 ball to be a legitimate game. It's easy to just stall, take low or no percentage shots, etc. and let you opponent miss 2 balls later, until you see a doable runout. At that point it's pointless. By playing points you actually need to stay at the table and make shots. When someone says 9 ball, I think Texas Express and I think the games should be differentiated, but the points thing can be fun, too.

 

[garczar]

A wise man said "Don't run 8 if you can't run 9."

So maybe point 9 ball is harder for the good player. Or Texas Express is easier for the hack. Or every game is almost exactly how hard your opponent makes it. The fact is that most pool players can't run enough balls in rotation for Texas Express 9 ball to be a legitimate game. It's easy to just stall, take low or no percentage shots, etc. and let you opponent miss 2 balls later, until you see a doable runout. At that point it's pointless. By playing points you actually need to stay at the table and make shots. When someone says 9 ball, I think Texas Express and I think the games should be differentiated, but the points thing can be fun, too.

HUH?? I don't know about where you play but here in Tulsa i've seen 400-450 FR's put together some real nice outs. They can't do it consistently yet but i see a LOT of balls made in TE 9ball. To say TE 9ball is not a legit game is kinda out there imo. Still don't think 'league' and '9ball' should be used in same sentence. Just my take, nothing more.

 

[tomatoshooter]

HUH?? I don't know about where you play but here in Tulsa i've seen 400-450 FR's put together some real nice outs. They can't do it consistently yet but i see a LOT of balls made in TE 9ball. To say TE 9ball is not a legit game is kinda out there imo. Still don't think 'league' and '9ball' should be used in same sentence. Just my take, nothing more.

I don't mean the game itself isn't legit, but when players don't consistently run more than 2 balls that particular game is less about you controlling the table and more about your opponent losing control of the table at an opportune time for you. I'd say if the players can consistently run 3 balls, and know when to duck then it becomes a legit match. I'm not 100% sure what a 400 FR plays like but, reading their description, that sounds like the skill level when it becomes a real game. At the lower skill levels it seems to more about rolling balls around till someone gets lucky.

 

[gregcantrall]

So if a player gets beat by the lucky banger.... maybe, just maybe they really aren't the B+ player they think they are.

Or maybe just maybe they underestimate the banger.
Story time:
Back in the '80s at the White Spot there was a Wednesday night 9 ball tournament. Race to 3 on the bar tables. Like the 9 ball club of the Seattle Tacoma area, it drew all the best and even celebrity road players. I was playing the player that I had watched bust Cole Dickson the week before. We were Hill-hill and I broke making a ball. The 1 was about 6 inches off the side rail at the second diamond but blocked to the corner. The 5-9 combination was wired and in the middle of the foot rail. The closeness to the rail made it a big target. My plan was to roll out to a kick bank combination as the 1 was my favorite distance from the side rail. I wanted to make the kick require special sauce as I knew I was playing a player. Rolled to the absolute most natural kick accidentally. I was disappointed and let it show, figured it was too easy. My opponent didn't get out of his chair, just saying, "shoot again" obviously thinking I was disappointed that it was hooked. I couldn't kick fast enough as I was afraid he could change his mind. After I made the shot to knock him out of the tournament, he spent the rest of the evening walking around with a beer, telling any and all how he got beat by this "no shooting banger."
I am assuming that C*** Sucker= Banger

 

[The_JV]

So what's the difference with "a strong 9 ball player" running away with a match (running racks, I presume) and running enuf balls to beat the number your opponent has to get to? It requires skill to make shots, and work patterns. And the stronger player should have no issue doing the hiding if he doesn't have a shot...

But of course it's APA so it must be bad. BCA 8 ball scoring is point based, so it must not be "real 8 ball" either, right?

I don't recall saying it was bad... What I said was you don't need be concerned with winning a rack, only making balls. If you manage to make any 5 balls on the table. Then the worst case senario is you walk away with a draw. If you make any 6 balls then you walk away ahead even if you don't drop the 9. Which as we all know is how you win a traditional game. To be very successful at APA 9 ball, you don't need B'n'R abilities. In Traditional 9ball you do. That's the point I'm trying to make.

Been a long time since I played BCA 8ball, but when I did the status of the 8 ball still determined the winner of the rack. That is not the case with APA 9ball. Not sure how that's a comparison.

 

[kling&allen]

I don't mean the game itself isn't legit, but when players don't consistently run more than 2 balls that particular game is less about you controlling the table and more about your opponent losing control of the table at an opportune time for you. I'd say if the players can consistently run 3 balls, and know when to duck then it becomes a legit match. I'm not 100% sure what a 400 FR plays like but, reading their description, that sounds like the skill level when it becomes a real game. At the lower skill levels it seems to more about rolling balls around till someone gets lucky.

I think that's an accurate summary of playing 9 ball with really weak players. I'm not any good, but when I play against my non-pool playing friends, I can do whatever I want at the table because I know they will struggle to run 2 balls. It's entirely different than playing someone who can run 5 balls.

 

[Black-Balled]

Pool played by low to moderately skilled participants is highly unpredictable.

Who cares if a ball gets shit in, when another is going to be missed in the next 3minutes?

It will all even out in the long run. That's how these things go and it is also why hacks like us find those stupid balls so intriguing.

 

[ShootingArts]

Or maybe just maybe they underestimate the banger.
Story time:
Back in the '80s at the White Spot there was a Wednesday night 9 ball tournament. Race to 3 on the bar tables. Like the 9 ball club of the Seattle Tacoma area, it drew all the best and even celebrity road players. I was playing the player that I had watched bust Cole Dickson the week before. We were Hill-hill and I broke making a ball. The 1 was about 6 inches off the side rail at the second diamond but blocked to the corner. The 5-9 combination was wired and in the middle of the foot rail. The closeness to the rail made it a big target. My plan was to roll out to a kick bank combination as the 1 was my favorite distance from the side rail. I wanted to make the kick require special sauce as I knew I was playing a player. Rolled to the absolute most natural kick accidentally. I was disappointed and let it show, figured it was too easy. My opponent didn't get out of his chair, just saying, "shoot again" obviously thinking I was disappointed that it was hooked. I couldn't kick fast enough as I was afraid he could change his mind. After I made the shot to knock him out of the tournament, he spent the rest of the evening walking around with a beer, telling any and all how he got beat by this "no shooting banger."
I am assuming that C*** Sucker= Banger

I gambled with a guy a handful of times over a few month period. After that he would not play me anymore. He told me quite sincerely that he was a better player but he couldn't outrun my luck! I still grin thinking about him.

Hu

 

[gregcantrall]

I gambled with a guy a handful of times over a few month period. After that he would not play me anymore. He told me quite sincerely that he was a better player but he couldn't outrun my luck! I still grin thinking about him.

Hu

That gets the smile of familiar. I bet he had All the gear too!

 

[Island Drive]

I play in a BCA 9 Ball league where in BCA slop counts. I have always tried to play safeties, make a good hit, shoot my ball and play position. But the table I play on are Valley Bar tables with huge pockets. Several 600 level Fargo players have now started just knocking the hell out of the ball and hoping something goes it. The usually hit it as hard as a break shot and try and stop the cue ball. Believe it or not, it is working. I have to say that the stats I have taken in my own game where the opponent does this works about 60% of the time.

I don't think this would work well on Diamond table or larger tables, but on these tables with the 4.5" pockets with huge shelf seems to work well. Obviously when they have shots they try and run out, but when an opponent leaves them bad, they just try and make a good hit and blast the balls.

What is your opinion?

I think it's a good move in 9 ball on a box.

I've been in Major events in Olathe 80's, finishing in the top 8 often, one time 2nd.
Anywho, was playing a match in the later rounds on the Valleys, and these were NOT the real big pockets.
A shot came up where it was very difficult to play safe, BUT I was able to move 6 balls at once.
I crushed em.... Made a ball opened up the table and ran out.
I ended up calling that shot.
My ''mid rack break shot''.
When you think about how much rail area (on a bar box) vs how much pocket area there is, think of it this way.
If you take one cushion from pocket to pocket, that equals about 1/6 of the the table which also equals 5''x 6 pockets which equals a Minimum of 30'' of pocket area.
I've also found that on loose bar tables, if you can aggressively hit three balls at least 5 rails x 3 ='s 15 cushion hits in one swing.
I'm sure one of those three balls will go in the drink.

 

[Black-Balled]

 

[eg9327]

I play 8 ball called pocket and also one pocket. Nine ball slop is a ridiculous game.

 

[jay helfert]

I play in a BCA 9 Ball league where in BCA slop counts. I have always tried to play safeties, make a good hit, shoot my ball and play position. But the table I play on are Valley Bar tables with huge pockets. Several 600 level Fargo players have now started just knocking the hell out of the ball and hoping something goes it. The usually hit it as hard as a break shot and try and stop the cue ball. Believe it or not, it is working. I have to say that the stats I have taken in my own game where the opponent does this works about 60% of the time.

I don't think this would work well on Diamond table or larger tables, but on these tables with the 4.5" pockets with huge shelf seems to work well. Obviously when they have shots they try and run out, but when an opponent leaves them bad, they just try and make a good hit and blast the balls.

What is your opinion?

Often a good strategy playing Rotation (ride the big balls), but a losing one in 9-Ball.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Its' pretty simple. If you are playing someone that you can't beat, and winning is your number one priority, then blasting away when you don't have a high percentage shot/safety is going to be your best chance.

 

[gregcantrall]

My safe word was Splash guards. Meaning......uh protect yourself, something might leave the table.

 

[Jimmorrison]

I think it's a good move in 9 ball on a box.

I've been in Major events in Olathe 80's, finishing in the top 8 often, one time 2nd.
Anywho, was playing a match in the later rounds on the Valleys, and these were NOT the real big pockets.
A shot came up where it was very difficult to play safe, BUT I was able to move 6 balls at once.
I crushed em.... Made a ball opened up the table and ran out.
I ended up calling that shot.
My ''mid rack break shot''.
When you think about how much rail area (on a bar box) vs how much pocket area there is, think of it this way.
If you take one cushion from pocket to pocket, that equals about 1/6 of the the table which also equals 5''x 6 pockets which equals a Minimum of 30'' of pocket area.
I've also found that on loose bar tables, if you can aggressively hit three balls at least 5 rails x 3 ='s 15 cushion hits in one swing.
I'm sure one of those three balls will go in the drink.

This is for real, do the math

 

[tomatoshooter]

This is for real, do the math

on a 7' table, the perimeter is 234". If there are 6 5" pockets, that's 30". Every time a ball goes to the rail there is a one in 7.8 chance it's going in a pocket (12.8%). On an 8' with 5" pockets it's one in 8.8, or 11.3%. On a 9' with 4.5" corner pockets and 5" sides, it's 1 in 10.7 or 9.3%. I'm sure there are other factors, but more balls hitting more rails equals more balls in more holes.