9-Ball Luck 8-ball not so much

JonoNZ said:
The 8 on the break being 1% cannot be accurate. I know some people hardly ever sink it, but I would sink it closer to 10%. Tonight for example I got it 3 times in a row. It's more to do with where you hit.

8 and 9 ball both have there own pressure. Straight pool is A LOT more diffucult yes, but the pressure in 8 and 9 ball is sitting there while someone gets 4-5 racks up on you because you messed up.

Just my 2 cents... :D
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With a good rack it should only go in about 5 % in my opinion.
 
Makes my blood boil when I hear someone say that 8 ball is a more skillful game than 9 ball.

Each game has its own different aspects which some people like and others don't. I like 9 ball more because it challenges me to run out or lose. There's no slopping with the people I regularly play and if I do think luck is going to be a factor against someone, I play them races to 10 or something longer so that whacking a couple of 9balls or a win off the snap won't win the set for them.

I'm tired of hearing people say 9 ball's a game of luck. If you miss the 2 and I get out am I lucky? So what if the 9 can drop off the snap? Both players have the same odds that'll happen. It doesn't make that much of a difference in long sets, which is how nine ball should be played, IMO.
 
Koopa said:
Makes my blood boil when I hear someone say that 8 ball is a more skillful game than 9 ball.

Each game has its own different aspects which some people like and others don't. I like 9 ball more because it challenges me to run out or lose. There's no slopping with the people I regularly play and if I do think luck is going to be a factor against someone, I play them races to 10 or something longer so that whacking a couple of 9balls or a win off the snap won't win the set for them.

I'm tired of hearing people say 9 ball's a game of luck. If you miss the 2 and I get out am I lucky? So what if the 9 can drop off the snap? Both players have the same odds that'll happen. It doesn't make that much of a difference in long sets, which is how nine ball should be played, IMO.
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thats your opinion,and theres a lot of skill making a 4 ball combo on the 9 hanging in the corner to win.:rolleyes:
 
That's funny

RiverCity said:
Just for the record, the normally accepted odds on making the 9 on the break is about 1 in 35.
Chuck
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Because last night in a little 1-2-3 handicap tournaemnt of 9 ball, I played Marshall, a friend and adversary, and we were both 3's. I won the break, and snapped the 9 1 rail into the side. Marshall broke and made the 9 in the right corner. I broke and made the 9 in the right corner. Marshall broke and made the 9 in the right corner. 4 snaps in a row. I broke last game, and we both missed a shot, and I got out to win the match.
 
In leagues I've played, it's not a win. You have the option for the 8-ball to be spotted, or you can re-rack and break again.

Exception: if you scratch as well, the option is given to the opponent (re-rack and their break, or spot the 8-B with him to shoot)

Johnnyt said:
Because I never played you don't win if you make the 8 on the break in 8-ball in my life. Johnnyt
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StevenPWaldon said:
In leagues I've played, it's not a win. You have the option for the 8-ball to be spotted, or you can re-rack and break again.

Exception: if you scratch as well, the option is given to the opponent (re-rack and their break, or spot the 8-B with him to shoot)
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Sorry I never did the league thing. But I played in hundreds of bars all over the country including Alaska and the eight on the break was always a win. And the percentage of eights on the break from the IPT was breaking from the box...a big handicap. Johnnyt
 
Eight ball is a game that has as many different rules from one place to another as a game can possibly have.

One reason winning when sinking the 8 on the break is one form of rule is that on coin tables, (where 8 ball became popular) you couldn't get the 8 ball back after the break if it went in so it had to be considered either a win or a loss. I guess a win was decided as the rule.

I've alway enjoyed straight pool. I've been playing pool now for over 45 yrs and I've seen TV destroy the popularity of straight pool in favor of 9 ball.

Each game has its merits, although I surely don't like 9 ball at all, it is a good fast gambling game. It certainly is not anywhere near the accurate measuring tool for determining who the best player is as straight pool is.

I mean any halfway decent player can win 2 or 3 games in a race to 7 against a pro player, but see how far you get in winning (or even coming close to winning) a straight pool game against a pro.

9 ball is a gambling game, quick and dirty. The only reason its being played as often as it is by so many, is the younger kids have had no exposure to 14.1 and the younger you are the more you want to smack the balls.

Like Danny Diliberto pointed out, 9 ball is a "play by numbers" game while both 8 ball and straight pool are pattern games where all the choices are up to the player. Played correctly IMO either game is more challenging than 9 ball. But again, 9 ball is perfect for what it was designed to be, a gambling game.
 
RiverCity said:
Just for the record, the normally accepted odds on making the 9 on the break is about 1 in 35.
Chuck
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Yes, 1 in 35 was the stat that Accu-Stats gave for pro tournaments.

Also, 9-ball is a much more difficult game to play well than 8-ball.
 
Well, ya make the wrong move or play a poor safe in 9 ball and you are toast. Of course if you move the wrong checker and get triple jumped you are toast also. That doesn't mean checkers is harder than chess however. Just my opinion.
 
I say that 9 ball involves more luck considering that you only need to only pocket the 9-ball to win regardless in that's the only ball you made. in 8 ball however, you need to finish all your balls and the 8 to claim the victory. so this is no easy picking for victory in 8-ball and less chance for a banger to win. surely you can work your way out of silly safeties given to you by a banger.
 
Since when does a banger have any chance against a skilled player in 9-ball over the course of a race to 9? The fact that a shot can be slopped in or that a player can miss and get a lucky hook does not change the fact that 9-ball is the only game that requires mastery of ALL facets of cueing in order to play at the professional level. You can play high level straight pool or eight ball without being proficient at two and three rail kicks, and knowledge and cue ball control may get you there in one hole even if your shotmaking ability has declined, but 9-ball requires that you have no significant holes in your game. Every skill in the book, from long distance blood tests to pinpoint speed control and diabolical safeties, will be called upon when you mess with the game of 9-ball.

Furthermore, I think that 9-ball gets somewhat of a bad rep where luck is concerned. The fact is that there's less luck in 9-ball than people like to think there is, and luck comes into play in all the games. When the opponent rides the nine on you or misses a shot and leaves you safe you should ask yourself, "How did this guy get an opportunity to shoot this shot in the first place?" The vast majority of the time, the honest answer is that you didn't get out when you where supposed to or you played a poor safety which allowed your opponent opportunities at the table. Conversely, when a player misses a shot in 8-ball and the ball goes around four rails to fall in called pocket, isn't that luck? Is luck not involved when two players are hitting the break shot well but one is making two or three balls on every break while the other can't buy a ball no matter how well the balls spread?

P.S.--Is there anyone here who is willing to state that a C player will run more racks of nine ball than of 8-ball?
 
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VIProfessor said:
Since when does a banger have any chance against a skilled player in 9-ball over the course of a race to 9?
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Now that would make for some interesting stats. Get an A player and a C player and let them play two sets to 9 each in 9 ball and 8 ball. Lets see which game the C player manages more wins in.


I know that for myself, if I were forced to bet on myself shutting out a C player in either format, I'd surely choose 8 ball.
 
3andstop said:
Now that would make for some interesting stats. Get an A player and a C player and let them play two sets to 9 each in 9 ball and 8 ball. Lets see which game the C player manages more wins in.


I know that for myself, if I were forced to bet on myself shutting out a C player in either format, I'd surely choose 8 ball.
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I agree that a C player will most likely win more games playing 9-ball, but I'm prepared to wager that the number of sets won would be the same in both games--zero. As has been noted by a number of other posters, it can't be accidental that the same names keep showing up on Sunday in professional tournaments. This clearly demonstrates that even though there are elements of luck involved, the better player will generall carry the day in 9-ball.

My question, however, remains unanswered? In which game does a C player have a higher chance of breaking and getting out? I venture to state that even including nines on the break and early combinations or caroms, a C player will not get out from the break in 9-ball as often as he will in 8-ball. If you talk about actually running out the rack, the numbers won't even be close. Doesn't this say something about the level of skill required to play 9-ball well?
 
VIProfessor said:
P.S.--Is there anyone here who is willing to state that a C player will run more racks of nine ball than of 8-ball?
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I for one, can attest to that. because there are rules that makes 9-ball more favorable to the average Joe player. like for example that an A player failed to make a ball on the break and left the 9-ball hanging on a pocket with the 1 ball near it. this would be an easy picking even to a grade schooler. another scenario would be a scratch and the next succeeding ball and the 9 are also close together near a pocket where an easy combo is available. the thing here is the element of skill is more evident in 8-ball rather than 9-ball. like consistent pocketing skills, since you need to pocket all your balls. positional strategies and CB control. I have shut out some C players playing 8-ball but seldom in 9-ball. when I'm playing 8-ball, I'm most likely to play cautious and avoiding the 8, where C players and below tend to fail to. If you want the element of Luck to be minimized in 9 ball, have these following rules adapted.

* No golden breaks
* called shots
*scratch - CB respotted in the kitchen (just like in 8-ball)
* sequenced shots - no combos, no caroms.
* final ball - 9 ball

* I had played some C players playing these rules and they hated it. now you know why :D
with those rules, I can beat that most average players can't win even a single game.
 
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VIProfessor said:
I agree that a C player will most likely win more games playing 9-ball, but I'm prepared to wager that the number of sets won would be the same in both games--zero. As has been noted by a number of other posters, it can't be accidental that the same names keep showing up on Sunday in professional tournaments. This clearly demonstrates that even though there are elements of luck involved, the better player will generall carry the day in 9-ball.

My question, however, remains unanswered? In which game does a C player have a higher chance of breaking and getting out? I venture to state that even including nines on the break and early combinations or caroms, a C player will not get out from the break in 9-ball as often as he will in 8-ball. If you talk about actually running out the rack, the numbers won't even be close. Doesn't this say something about the level of skill required to play 9-ball well?
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In a Race to 3 format in 9 ball. some guys here on AZB played and won against A players. now that answers your question. now, does that mean that C players can't win a short format like that? I don't think so. In 8 ball however, I haven't encountered yet a C player winning that kinda format.
 
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Snapshot9 said:
Because last night in a little 1-2-3 handicap tournaemnt of 9 ball, I played Marshall, a friend and adversary, and we were both 3's. I won the break, and snapped the 9 1 rail into the side. Marshall broke and made the 9 in the right corner. I broke and made the 9 in the right corner. Marshall broke and made the 9 in the right corner. 4 snaps in a row. I broke last game, and we both missed a shot, and I got out to win the match.
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You guys probably racked em bad...
 
Hail Mary Shot said:
In a Race to 3 format in 9 ball. some guys here on AZB played and won against A players. now that answers your question. now, does that mean that C players can't win a short format like that? I don't think so. In 8 ball however, I haven't encountered yet a C player winning that kinda format.
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I have never said anything about a short race, and I think it's a travesty to play races to three in nine-ball. To my mind, that's like playing straight pool to 15 points. I don't think anyone would argue that its impossible for a C player to beat an A player in a game of straights to 15 points, so what's the point?

The bottom line is that luck is not enough to overcome a significant difference in skill level when you play 9-ball. For everytime that someone makes a flyer on the nine, they will probably sell out 3 or 4 times. If that kind of pool is beating us with any regularity, then the fault lies not in our stars, but in ourselves.

Finally, I reiterate the question to which I still have not received an answer. Does anyone here feel that a C player will run out more frequently in 9-ball than in 8-ball?

P.S.--BTW, I HAVE seen C players win races to two and three in 8-ball against A players more than a few times. Search back in this forum and you'll see the complaints of some of the leauge players who post here.
 
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VIProfessor said:
Finally, I reiterate the question to which I still have not received an answer. Does anyone here feel that a C player will run out more frequently in 9-ball than in 8-ball?
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This is a new line of questioning. my answer is Yes. I do not only feel but also encountered it and some guys as well.
 
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