9-Ball on the Snap

[JAM]

...Sardo rack has shown that when every ball is frozen in 9 Ball that the 9 Ball does not even move (unless kicked by another ball) I believe this is also the case with 10 Ball racked with a Sardo (although I have never seen or played 10 Ball with a Sardo, I presume this is the case)

I think the new rule on the FL tour is a very good one and should be applied to 9 ball and 8 ball also. Lets make the player earn the W with skill and not luck.

I think the rule change also is a good one, at least so far. The contributing posts to this thread have been GREAT, weighing in the pros and cons.

About the Sardo, Carmine Sardo is a frequent traveler on the tournament trail and one of the nicest persons you'd ever want to meet, always upbeat, friendly, and fun to be around. He plays a mean guitar, too!

One morning at the U.S. Open a few years ago, I had breakfast with Carmine. At this U.S. Open, BCn was giving out $500 for every 9 made on the break which occurred on the TV table, and you can believe that each player was gunning for that hot nickel.

During the off hours, players were trading breaking strategies with each other about making that 9-ball. So I took the opportunity to ask Carmine at breakfast that year about what he thought was the best break with the Sardo rack. His response was quite enlightening.

Carmine said that, one thing for sure, there is no such thing as "perfect" balls. In order to create "perfect" balls with the EXACT dimensions to the tee, it would cost thousands of dollars for each rack. If a scientist or techno-geek were to measure a brand-new set of Super Pro Aramith balls, there would be slight variations, even if it were only to the nth degree.

He also elaborated on exactly what you said, Shanesinnott, that if the Sardo is working properly, the 9-ball will not move.

AND in Carmine's opinion, he said that a "medium-speed" break works best with the Sardo rack. At that year's U.S. Open, the famed power breakers like Bustamante and others weren't cracking the rack at 30-plus miles per hour. So Carmine may be right.

The Sardo rack does remove the back-and-forth arguments at high-profile events, though there are some who don't agree with the utilization of the Sardo rack. I happen to like the Sardo rack, the sole reason being that it does prevent rack-riggers from cheating and provides a LEVEL playing field to all.

Picture of Carmine Sardo and Keith taken at the 2004 U.S. Open.

JAM

 

[JAM]

If you play enough pool, you're probably used to playing by different rules anyway. Anytime I put my quaters up at a bar, the first thing I ask while I'm racking is the rules. LOL, bangers that don't have the 1st clue about pool, that've never played in a league or tourney in their life, are very adamant about knowing the rules and they get very angry when you don't play by the rules. Add alcohol to that & it gets ugly!....

Timberly, you're right on with your insights, especially as it pertains to the bar-banger setting.

When I was young and dumb and did frequent the on-the-road action trail down South, me having my pool roots from the bar setting, I was intent on hitting all the taverns where the action was. My counterpart, though, wanted to go to the traditional pool rooms or billiard parlors, which usually did not serve alcohol. And just like in TCOM, each town we came upon, we'd go to the nearest phone booth and get the Yellow Pages, looking up the locations of the local hot spots.

One fine day in Georgia, the player I was with got himself a little action on the bar table, and there was side action galore. I used to indulge in the brewskies at this time and was taking all bets against my horse.

As the games progressed and we started pocketing some dough, one of the locals called out to me, opened up his jacket, and displayed a gun tucked in his belt, stating, "What are you going to do about this?" I completely became unfolded and was scared to death, literally and figuratively.

In Georgia at that time, the residents were allowed to carry guns on their person. As it turned out, the bartender saw me squirming and said, "Aw, don't worry about him. He's just drunk. If you have any problems, I'll escort you out to your car." Needless to say, several minutes later, we were back on the road again, keeping our winnings, but I will NEVER forget that incident.

Today, give me a cup of coffee and I'm a happy camper, and as well, I do make for a great designated driver at all times. Sleep deprivation is my worst enemy these days.

JAM

 

[TheConArtist]

I have few people that i know place the eightball or nineball on top of the balls with the fingers holding the rest of the balls in place and on the spot then with their index finger push the ball into its place to give them a nyce solid tight rack, but i use to bang on top of the balls to get them frozen like Rodney did a trick i learned from The Color Of Money LOL. The tables at the youth center here they had me mark the rack where it should be with a pen you know just the corners of the rack this way the rack is placed in the same position all the time then the balls sit in the grooves or dents this way they don't have that trouble like Rodney Morris had .........

 

[Timberly]

I have few people that i know place the eightball or nineball on top of the balls with the fingers holding the rest of the balls in place and on the spot then with their index finger push the ball into its place to give them a nyce solid tight rack

I'm just curious as to what your personal opinion of this is. Do you think this really works?

 

[TheConArtist]

I'm just curious as to what your personal opinion of this is. Do you think this really works?

Maybe if the cloth is very new and doesn't have indentment marks yeah but a very used cloth no. If the rack was placed in the same exact and i mean the same exact way each and everytime maybe could be wrong. But alot of people here like to rack like this.

 

[Timberly]

Maybe if the cloth is very new and doesn't have indentment marks yeah but a very used cloth no. If the rack was placed in the same exact and i mean the same exact way each and everytime maybe could be wrong. But alot of people here like to rack like this.

Pro events are played on new cloth. Have you ever been to a pro event? Did you happen to notice them doing this?

 

[TheConArtist]

Pro events are played on new cloth. Have you ever been to a pro event? Did you happen to notice them doing this?

like i said i could be wrong LOL i knew i was going to be wrong. As it happens no i haven't never seen a pro event in life.

 

[Timberly]

like i said i could be wrong LOL i knew i was going to be wrong. As it happens no i haven't never seen a pro event in life.

LOL, you're wrong...but that's ok. That is why forums like this are so beneficial.... we can learn.

If you get the chance, especially as much as you like pool, you should make it a goal of yours to get to a pro event. If you can take some vacation time & go to the BCA in Vegas, the DCC, or an IPT event..... you won't regret it.

You'll see jam up play, and you'll get to mingle with & meet some of your favorite players.

The DCC and some other large events schedule the tourneys a couple of yrs out. It would give you plenty of time to plan and put back a little money for the venture.

 

[Black-Balled]

Wow, so much to say!

I think 9B should see the 9 spotted if made on the break, and call-pocket for all balls after the break.

I disagree with seeding.

I am still tired from Sterling!

 

[Timberly]

I am still tired from Sterling!

As you should be! If you had gone to the TPP event in Arnold your body would've been in tournament mode and you could've withstood the late night hours playing much better.

 

[TheConArtist]

LOL, you're wrong...but that's ok. That is why forums like this are so beneficial.... we can learn.

If you get the chance, especially as much as you like pool, you should make it a goal of yours to get to a pro event. If you can take some vacation time & go to the BCA in Vegas, the DCC, or an IPT event..... you won't regret it.

You'll see jam up play, and you'll get to mingle with & meet some of your favorite players.

The DCC and some other large events schedule the tourneys a couple of yrs out. It would give you plenty of time to plan and put back a little money for the venture.

But why does this trick not work to give solid racks just curious, personally speaking i don't use it but wondering.....thx.

 

[Timberly]

But why does this trick not work to give solid racks just curious, personally speaking i don't use it but wondering.....thx.

The scientific aspect of pool is not something I'm good at. I was told many moons ago that it does nothing. LOL, I didn't ask why, I just accepted it because the people that I saw doing it were not players and the players that I saw were not doing it.

I guess I could flip it around and ask why you think it works.

Common sense tells me that it would make no difference. I don't think that it would hurt the rack but I do not see how it would help it. The ball doesn't change in size. It is the same size regardless. If the other balls are pushed in so tight, then the money ball, in order to fit, is going to have to push those balls out in order to fit. I honestly can't answer your question as to why. All I can do is guess and go by what I've seen & heard of the last 15 yrs.

One thing I do know.... The only time I've ever seen anyone use this is at a bar. This is also the person that makes me call my shot off the rail if the object ball happens to graze the side rail before it goes in the corner pocket. I have never, ever seen a player use this method. I grew up in an area that was full of action.... when I left Shannon Daulton, Tony Watson, & Cliff Joyner had moved to the area and people like Johnny Archer, Tony Ellin, Coy Lee, Erman Bullard, & a slew of others were coming into town for the action.....none of them ever did this.

 

[TheConArtist]

I can see your point, now this is just throwing this out there now if someone used this technique to rack then afterwards use the cueball to tap on top of each ball holding the balls in place would the rack be gooder to go? Remember throwing that out there but you would need someone to tap for you so a stupid thought but what are your thoughts on that? Guess thats why they made the Sardo Tight Rack huh very glad for this LOL

 

[Timberly]

I can see your point, now this is just throwing this out there now if someone used this technique to rack then afterwards use the cueball to tap on top of each ball holding the balls in place would the rack be gooder to go? Remember throwing that out there but you would need someone to tap for you so a stupid thought but what are your thoughts on that? Guess thats why they made the Sardo Tight Rack huh very glad for this LOL

I cringe when I see someone do this. The balls are never really in the same spot which is why people continually have to do this. IMO, all it is doing is causing more problems.... it might get you through that rack but what about all the racks that come after it if they're not in the same groove?

 

[TheConArtist]

Otaye topic done hehehe, Thanks for the replies Timberly.

 

[JoeyA]

Spotting the nine ball made on the break is a good idea IMHO but I remember Grady Mathews as the original supporter of this idea many years ago. He complained that the nine on the break was mostly luck. He had some other good ideas that I can't think of right now about nine ball as well.
JoeyA

Last night, we went to a Midnight Madness tournament in Virginia, and I must admit that I had a great all-nighter, though today I'm running in slow gear.

UPA Touring Pro Mike Davis, fresh back from his great win in Reno, showed up, as did AzBilliard's Black-Balled, and some other local pool players. Egg McDogitt was in the house, and quite a few regulars at First Break Cafe. BTW, Black-Balled came in third place and is looking mightly sporty on a field of green.

As an aside, Keith asked Mike about his break cue, if it would be legal on the IPT tour, and Mike said that it would not because of the tip. I didn't realize that some of the current break cues won't be allowed because of the way they're made. Also, Mike said he really enjoyed his recent Reno trip, not only the win, but the whole tournament. He believes that his break was working brilliantly, especially on the bar boxes. Mike won a qualifier up in New England a while back, which paid for all of his expenses, travel and lodging. Way to go, Mike Davis! This kid really gives it his all at every event he attends, and he sure does get around, a real globe trotter these days.

It's always great to catch up on the pool smut with other tournament soldiers, and Mike Davis shared with me that the Florida Pro Tour took a vote in recent times and decided to change the rules that, if a 9-ball went in on the break, it would be spotted up. He also stated he suggested this rule to a TD of a regional tour in our area, which is currently being contemplated.

With the break being such a large component of one's 9-ball game, I was wondering if this rule change is, in fact, a good thing. It would put an emphasis on one's shooting skills set as opposed to their break. Any thoughts?

JAM

 

[Jimmy M.]

In these instances of racking problems, the Sardo has come to the rescue, but, of course, there's an ongoing debate about the pros and cons of the Sardo rack, too, unfortunately.

JAM

I have to admit that using the Sardo Rack isn't my favorite thing to do only because, having played with a regular rack my whole life, it seems like a pain in the ass. However, I do like using the rack in tournament play for the simple fact that it's the next best thing to having a 3rd party racker. Unless I'm playing King Kong, I know I don't have to worry about my opponent being a rack mechanic when we're using that rack.

 

[DanielM]

My ideal of 9ball :-

1. Call shot.

2. No carrying on after combinations (except the break), 9-ball re-spotted if comboed (so combinations would be for tactical reasons only).

3. Only 2 balls must hit cushion after break instead of 4.

 

[Donovan]

Another option to the 9 on the break situation would be to spot the 9 but allow the breaker BIH. This would reward them but still require talent to get the win and couldn't be seen as penalizing the breaker for making the 9. Just a thought...

Yes, I like that way of looking at it. That is a much more worthy reward than just keep shooting. Skill still has to solve the layout.

BTW, JAM great thread!

 

[pillage6]

The actual ruling on the Florida Pro Tour is that the 10-ball is spotted after the break unless it is spotted in a way so that the breaker can't see the 1-ball. If that happens the 10-ball is spotted on the shot immediately afterwards.

I think that's the most fair way of doing it, and at me to the call-every-ball rule list.