9 Ball Run Out Exercise Pt2
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Belmicah.. Illustrate the position route if you get straight in on the 5, which is only a difference of an inch or two using your position route to the 5.
Russ
Russ
I think the shot is played like SHort Bus Russ pointed out. I have played it the other way over and over again in tournaments or matches, and more than once I have over cooked the draw shot and either scratched or screwed myself. Sometimes it comes out great, but others its junk. 3 rails, cut the 5 in the far corner and play the 6 in the top left.
Handsumm
Banned
I have a decent draw stroke. Not too intimidating to draw back off the rail. I could get anywhere on the table from that position.Russ Chewning said:
Belmicah,
Eh.. I guess it's just a preference thing... I am more than capable of executing the two rail field goal position, it's just that I think the three rail is dog proof. To me, it doesn't rely on "touch", as you're always going to end up with a good shot on the 5.
I think, like other people have said, your position route leaves room for accidentally "cooking it", i.e. applying either too much spin or too much draw. If you have enough confidence to exeute it 90% of the time when your opponent just ran two racks, then you are a great player.
I used to play a little 3-C, so I am pretty confident of placing a ball on that third rail and softly landing on it with the cue ball, providing I have been practicing.
If the ball were further away from the corner, no doubt I'd like your shot better, since I think the two rail field goal position plays more consistently from a shallower angle.
Geez, you guys are really buying into this Short Bus thing, aren't yah. I may owe Smorg some royalties in the future..
Yeah, my wife has family in Puyallup. We'll be over that way sometime after I get back from Iraq. We'll play a few sets.
Russ
Eh.. I guess it's just a preference thing... I am more than capable of executing the two rail field goal position, it's just that I think the three rail is dog proof. To me, it doesn't rely on "touch", as you're always going to end up with a good shot on the 5.
I think, like other people have said, your position route leaves room for accidentally "cooking it", i.e. applying either too much spin or too much draw. If you have enough confidence to exeute it 90% of the time when your opponent just ran two racks, then you are a great player.
I used to play a little 3-C, so I am pretty confident of placing a ball on that third rail and softly landing on it with the cue ball, providing I have been practicing.
If the ball were further away from the corner, no doubt I'd like your shot better, since I think the two rail field goal position plays more consistently from a shallower angle.
Geez, you guys are really buying into this Short Bus thing, aren't yah. I may owe Smorg some royalties in the future..
Yeah, my wife has family in Puyallup. We'll be over that way sometime after I get back from Iraq. We'll play a few sets.Russ
Handsumm
Banned
You know, I actually don't think your shot is a bad idea at all really. In fact, it's the first thing I thought of, because it is the natural route. But, after reviewing the layout and picturing the table in my mind, I don't think my speed is accurate enough to get to where I feel comfortable being on the small side of the five. Also, that window didn't look to small in my little imagination.Russ Chewning said:Belmicah,
Eh.. I guess it's just a preference thing... I am more than capable of executing the two rail field goal position, it's just that I think the three rail is dog proof. To me, it doesn't rely on "touch", as you're always going to end up with a good shot on the 5.
I think, like other people have said, your position route leaves room for accidentally "cooking it", i.e. applying either too much spin or too much draw. If you have enough confidence to exeute it 90% of the time when your opponent just ran two racks, then you are a great player.
I used to play a little 3-C, so I am pretty confident of placing a ball on that third rail and softly landing on it with the cue ball, providing I have been practicing.
If the ball were further away from the corner, no doubt I'd like your shot better, since I think the two rail field goal position plays more consistently from a shallower angle.
Geez, you guys are really buying into this Short Bus thing, aren't yah. I may owe Smorg some royalties in the future..
Russ
I have this pattern on video. I took the route of the "Short Bus". My problem was that I kept getting dead straight on the 5 ball. I'll try to upload the video tonight at work.
You'll see that I tried to pocket the 5 ball and draw back around the 7 and 8. I actually went between them by mistake. I got lucky.
Also my layout will look slightly skewed because my table is a 8 footer.
You'll see that I tried to pocket the 5 ball and draw back around the 7 and 8. I actually went between them by mistake. I got lucky.
Also my layout will look slightly skewed because my table is a 8 footer.
Yah, Hal.. That's why you see me play the route slightly short in my diagram, as that way, you are always left with an angle. Try coming into that rail slightly shorter..
Russ
Russ
There are a variety of ways that these patterns can be attempted. It's great that we can all sit back in our arm chairs and critique others on how a pattern should be executed.
IMO, it's important that we get off our rumps
and try to execute these patterns ourselves to see what works and what doesn't. That's the real path to self-improvement. 
IMO, it's important that we get off our rumps
and try to execute these patterns ourselves to see what works and what doesn't. That's the real path to self-improvement. Let's not forget about the 7!Hal said:
Nice video.
For once I might agree with russ' pattern.
Without the 'blockers' it's fine to play the 2 rail route, but with those other balls, it really is a bit dangerous.
I think the key here isn't the speed control and position zone size that people keep bringing up, but predicting that angle the CB has coming off both rails. A slight difference in positioning the CB, or how you stroke it, or your speed... really alters the point where it contacts the 2nd rail. With draw and sidespin it's hard to say how much the english will 'take'. It's a bit easier with follow+running english.
For once I might agree with russ' pattern.
Without the 'blockers' it's fine to play the 2 rail route, but with those other balls, it really is a bit dangerous.
I think the key here isn't the speed control and position zone size that people keep bringing up, but predicting that angle the CB has coming off both rails. A slight difference in positioning the CB, or how you stroke it, or your speed... really alters the point where it contacts the 2nd rail. With draw and sidespin it's hard to say how much the english will 'take'. It's a bit easier with follow+running english.
Handsumm
Banned
LOL, feelings of sad. Guess I am getting weight from all of you.CreeDo said:Nice video.
For once I might agree with russ' pattern.
Without the 'blockers' it's fine to play the 2 rail route, but with those other balls, it really is a bit dangerous.
I think the key here isn't the speed control and position zone size that people keep bringing up, but predicting that angle the CB has coming off both rails. A slight difference in positioning the CB, or how you stroke it, or your speed... really alters the point where it contacts the 2nd rail. With draw and sidespin it's hard to say how much the english will 'take'. It's a bit easier with follow+running english.
Dear fellows:
Basically we have 5 different routes going to 3 target zones so far:
Desired Outcomes
Route 1 as suggested by belmicah and SpinDoktor (see page 2), going one rail back to zone A. However, there are concerns by a few members about the window between the 7 and 8 being small.
Route 2 as suggested by Russ Chewning, Hal, Fred, Snapshot9 and a few others (see page 3), going 2 rails to Zone B. However, a good speed control is needed.
Route 3 as suggested by JoeyA as an extension of Route 2, going 4 rails to the tip of Zone A (see page 4). This would be a shot for skilled players with confidence.
Route 4 as suggested by VIProfessor and JSP, drawing straight back to Zone C (see page 5). However, a straight alignment is needed. Cutting the 5 is just a little more difficult. And this might not work for lefty player.
Route 5 as suggested by PoolSharkAllen, Cuebacca and Mr. Byrne, drawing straight back to the short side of the 5 (page 6). Again, a good speed control is needed, This might not work for lefty player.
Thanks again for joining the discussion, it is really a great learning experience for me. At the moment I feel there is a need to clarify a little more about running 5, 6, 7 before we move on. Let's click on the link below and think some more.
9 Ball Run Out Exercise Pt3
*While organizing the layouts I noticed the balls shift position. I hope you guys didn't have to spend time redrawing the layouts from scratch. Here are steps to edit an existing layout (as shown in http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=64559 ):
*Great videos by the way, Hal
Basically we have 5 different routes going to 3 target zones so far:
Desired Outcomes
Route 1 as suggested by belmicah and SpinDoktor (see page 2), going one rail back to zone A. However, there are concerns by a few members about the window between the 7 and 8 being small.
Route 2 as suggested by Russ Chewning, Hal, Fred, Snapshot9 and a few others (see page 3), going 2 rails to Zone B. However, a good speed control is needed.
Route 3 as suggested by JoeyA as an extension of Route 2, going 4 rails to the tip of Zone A (see page 4). This would be a shot for skilled players with confidence.
Route 4 as suggested by VIProfessor and JSP, drawing straight back to Zone C (see page 5). However, a straight alignment is needed. Cutting the 5 is just a little more difficult. And this might not work for lefty player.
Route 5 as suggested by PoolSharkAllen, Cuebacca and Mr. Byrne, drawing straight back to the short side of the 5 (page 6). Again, a good speed control is needed, This might not work for lefty player.
Thanks again for joining the discussion, it is really a great learning experience for me. At the moment I feel there is a need to clarify a little more about running 5, 6, 7 before we move on. Let's click on the link below and think some more.
9 Ball Run Out Exercise Pt3
*While organizing the layouts I noticed the balls shift position. I hope you guys didn't have to spend time redrawing the layouts from scratch. Here are steps to edit an existing layout (as shown in http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=64559 ):
- Click on the Edit <A> button located at the lower right side of the CueTable Player. This will open the current layout on a CueTable Editor in full size.
- Once the layout gets shown on CueTable Editor in a new window, you can then adjust ball position or change things around. Remember to SavePage if you are editing multiple pages
*Great videos by the way, Hal
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Hal said:
Good job! You made it look easy.
[Sorry if I screw this up - first time posting here.]
Guess I'm a little late to this thread, but here's my choice:
Starting with the cue ball to the left of the 9-ball almost ensures I won't scratch in the side, and the left spin shortens up the angle off the second long rail to help guard against getting hooked behind the 7. Given these safety features, the huge position zone and the ability to roll along the 5-ball's shot line, this first shot can't be resisted.
Getting on the 6 works from anywhere in the position zone:
(1) If I end up straight in on the 5 (like position A) I draw the cue ball back past the 8 to get to the 6 (like position B) or stun through the 5 to the other side of the 8.
(2) If I end up left of position A I draw the cue ball a little sideways to the other side of the 8.
(3) If I end up right of position A I bounce the cue ball off the head rail and go to whichever side of the 8 works best.
Whichever way I have to go off the 5, I get a pretty good lie for the 6-to-the-7 off the foot rail. The only real danger is getting on the wrong side of the 6 by rolling past position B, but that's not a disaster either with a decent draw stroke.
pj
chgo
Guess I'm a little late to this thread, but here's my choice:
Starting with the cue ball to the left of the 9-ball almost ensures I won't scratch in the side, and the left spin shortens up the angle off the second long rail to help guard against getting hooked behind the 7. Given these safety features, the huge position zone and the ability to roll along the 5-ball's shot line, this first shot can't be resisted.
Getting on the 6 works from anywhere in the position zone:
(1) If I end up straight in on the 5 (like position A) I draw the cue ball back past the 8 to get to the 6 (like position B) or stun through the 5 to the other side of the 8.
(2) If I end up left of position A I draw the cue ball a little sideways to the other side of the 8.
(3) If I end up right of position A I bounce the cue ball off the head rail and go to whichever side of the 8 works best.
Whichever way I have to go off the 5, I get a pretty good lie for the 6-to-the-7 off the foot rail. The only real danger is getting on the wrong side of the 6 by rolling past position B, but that's not a disaster either with a decent draw stroke.
pj
chgo
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