9 ball variant idea. How might this game be broken?
- Thread starter mnorwood
- Start date
Nine Ball is fast, Bar Owners love game, keep money flowing to keep playing.
Want a better game to play?
1PKT.
Want a better game to play?
1PKT.
agree 10000%. the games we play have stood the test of time. every time u turn around someone is trying to re-invent the game. PLEEEEEEESE, give it a rest.
Well, it does need some small adjustments for the pro game to be watchable. Matchroom is working those out. The main issue right now seems to be time control.
8intheside
Well-known member
The break definitely needs to be changed In some way. Making the one ball is just way too easy and often times the pros are playing 6 ball.
3 foul?
Assuming I get to the table with a decent shot, I think that I 3 foul you 80% of the time.
Assuming I get to the table with a decent shot, I think that I 3 foul you 80% of the time.
Bull.
Maybe I am.
You will 3 foul your opponent in 9 ball 80% of the time if you choose to?
If anything, I think 9ball has become too difficult, but I figured I'd have a look first at the At Large stats from the Reyes Cup first. To state the obvious, most of these matches featured highly ranked players with good breaks.
Here's what I found.
Racks played 103 B&R racks 17 so B&R % approximately 17%
Racks played 103 the side that broke the balls won just 49 of those racks and lost 54
At the Reyes Cup, the world's best, as a group, were not breaking and running much and the break did not appear to be an advantage.
This seemed odd, so I looked at the China Open 9ball, played just a few weeks ago.
There, the B&R rate was 23% and the breaker won 52% of the 126 racks tracked.
At the US Open 9ball, the B&R rate was a very impressive 30% and the breaker won 62% of the 204 racks tracked.
If we add the stats together for the Reyes Cup, the China Open and the US Open, we find that of the 433 racks played, there were 107 B&R (25%) and the breaker won 241 of those racks (55.6%). In other words, over these 433 racks tracked by AtLarge, the breaker won about five of every nine racks.
In short, the break offers only a small advantage. Any suggestion that the 9ball break is broken does not hold up to scrutiny. The days of dominating with the break (as SVB did in 2014-16) are long gone and the formula for winning includes a lot of defense, kicking, jumping and tactical exchanges.
Of course, as we have seen at Derby City, enlarge the break box and loosen the pockets and the top pros can have a field day, but those are not world-class specifications.
Here's what I found.
Racks played 103 B&R racks 17 so B&R % approximately 17%
Racks played 103 the side that broke the balls won just 49 of those racks and lost 54
At the Reyes Cup, the world's best, as a group, were not breaking and running much and the break did not appear to be an advantage.
This seemed odd, so I looked at the China Open 9ball, played just a few weeks ago.
There, the B&R rate was 23% and the breaker won 52% of the 126 racks tracked.
At the US Open 9ball, the B&R rate was a very impressive 30% and the breaker won 62% of the 204 racks tracked.
If we add the stats together for the Reyes Cup, the China Open and the US Open, we find that of the 433 racks played, there were 107 B&R (25%) and the breaker won 241 of those racks (55.6%). In other words, over these 433 racks tracked by AtLarge, the breaker won about five of every nine racks.
In short, the break offers only a small advantage. Any suggestion that the 9ball break is broken does not hold up to scrutiny. The days of dominating with the break (as SVB did in 2014-16) are long gone and the formula for winning includes a lot of defense, kicking, jumping and tactical exchanges.
Of course, as we have seen at Derby City, enlarge the break box and loosen the pockets and the top pros can have a field day, but those are not world-class specifications.
How about playing this a bit like straight pool? One point per ball pocketed. When the 9 is made, if the cueball ends up in the kitchen, the player who made it continues with a full rack from the cueball's ending position. If the cueball didn't make it into the kitchen, the oppenent gets ball in hand behind the headstring with a full rack. Also, add a rule that forces a hard break.
The average non-pool playing person doesn't get making 8 balls, missing the 9 and losing after the opponent pockets one ball (just the 9) on an easy shot. Keeping score by balls made makes more sense to the average viewer.
The average non-pool playing person doesn't get making 8 balls, missing the 9 and losing after the opponent pockets one ball (just the 9) on an easy shot. Keeping score by balls made makes more sense to the average viewer.
Make the break a jump shot over some barrier that is immediately removed afterwards.
There is no way to hit 1-B at 30 MPH after jumping over 2.75" of interference.
L.S. Dennis
Well-known member
I came up with a game back in the 90's which I wrote about in a great old pool publication called HEAD SPOT. It was based a traditional rack of 9 ball with each ball made sequentially like in traditional 9 ball but each ball including the 9 value one point as in straight pool. The game was played to a pre determined number of points with alternate breaks to select the winner. Nobody but a few close friends were interested initially but the game was/is a lot of fun! I called it Innovation nine ball. I believe I still have that old copy of HEAD SPOT somewhere with all the rules written for it.
This is my thought as well, this game would be a massive safety fest. There are just waaaay too many times you wouldn't be able to avoid a stripe if you tried to continue the run and so you would play safe. Any time you would need to kind of turn loose of the cue ball to continue your run, it is often going to be way too risky to do so with all those extra stripes on the table, and so you will play safe. There are too many opportunities where you can play an easy safe on your opponent that will make it likely that they will end up hitting a stripe in their attempt to escape it, so of course you are going to play that safe if your runout isn't assured. As you pointed out, just having those six additional balls on the table makes playing safes so much easier to do, so of course there would be more safes just due to that even when the risk of hitting one wouldn't be any more. Etc. There would be safes everywhere. I like the outside the box thinking though.
dquarasr
Registered
APA 9-ball?!?
L.S. Dennis
Well-known member
No, actually my game was/is better I thought, but it's in the dust bowls of history at this point.
No.
In this weird ass variation where just hitting a striped ball also is a foul.
Again, I may be missing something...