90/90..mikjari asking
- Thread starter LAMas
- Start date
Appreciate it Ron! I didn't think about the straight in cuts, but I was adjusting more to the center on them without even knowing I was doing it. I forced myself to go to 90(edge) and I guess my brain compensated without me realizing it. When I tried to think about moving to the edge I missed the shot. When I just got down by feel I had no problem splitting the pocket in half. It makes sense now.
I've been really impressed at how accurate this system is. My home table has 4 1/4" pockets and I am finding that when the pivot starts to work correctly I split pockets. I'm not very fast with 90/90 yet. But I can see where after you get used to aiming with it, before you get down on the shot, you can possibly lose the pivot and just line up on the shot.
Another benefit is using it to learn the tougher angles. I line up with it to see the angle and then get back up. I get down on the same line except that I line up my english this time. I don't like BHE. I know, I know, it's a pivot, too. But I like to use 90/90 as a guide to see the contact point, an aim check. Works for me!
I am sorry if I offended you.
I have not yet absorbed SWC instructions on the hip pivot that would be about 5 feet and perhaps that was what you were conveying - if so, then I can integrate that.
This thread was started by me to help Mikjary get an answer to a 90/90 question that he had - that I thought would get lost in another CTE thread.
I believe that he got his question answered here by those that know - not me.
The other thread went on for over 600 posts and as SWC says, it's all there about CTE, but there needs to be a dictionary for the terms and jargon used to convey the information - otherwise it's like blind men trying to describe an elephant - at least to me.
It's like your old wise man that said, " people do not ask the right questions " - sometimes though it's that, "You don't know what you don't know"....so it becomes or has become 50 questions.
There are those that now undertand and will or have adopted your insights and teachings as presented - kudos.
I was honest when I said, "I understand what you are sayin".
Thanks.
I don't have a table so I ask.
Are you OK with the initial alignment of the cue pointed at the same corresponding points on the CB and OB i.e., left edge to left edge for a 90 degree cut to a pocket on the left; or like my diagram in post #34 just inside of the left edge point going to the pocket on the OB and the corresponding point on the CB for the 45 degree cut to the left?
I read your posts and think that you do. Looking at my post #34 again, notice that the distance between the OB and the CB is about twice the distance from the CB and my bridge/pivot location (small circle).
In my CAD drawing at work, when I move the OB farther away from the CB, the cut angle gets thinner and thinner and for my first example above, the 90 degree cut, I will start to miss the OB alltogether to the right.
That shows me that the angle of the pivot must be reduced. In my drawing, I can accomplish that by moving my bridge/pivot further away from the CB to equal 1/2 the distance between the OB and CB as mentioned above.
The problem is when the OB and CB are say 7 feet apart, you must move your bridge/pivot back 3.5 feet which is impractical. To accomplish this you could move your hip to touch the butt of the cue, while lined up 90/90, at this distance (3.5 feet if possible), and pivot from the hip by moving your bridge hand in an arc to point to the center of the CB.
On thick almost straight in shots, the pivot is a very small angle and almost imperceptable when the OB and CB are 7 feet apart.
I will try this out at the pool hall tomorrow or in Vegas on Thursday.
Thanks for reading.
Last edited:
Your drawing is accurate with how I set up my shots for around 30 degrees or less. When the distance increases I can shoot more than 30 degrees with the same setup. You just have to get down and look at it to know. I haven't mastered the feel for the point that I have to change to 90 half ball yet.
I use the 90 half ball for thinner cuts. I aim the edge of the CB to the center of the OB (1/2 ball) and pivot. For the thinnest cuts I use 90 reverse. I line up the edge of the CB with the OPPOSITE side of the OB and pivot. This is good for 80-90 degree cuts. Say for a cut to the left, I line up the CB left edge to the right edge of the OB and pivot. If you want to use inside english you don't have to pivot as you are already lined up for it.
With closer shots I use 90 half ball. You have to try each setup until the shot looks right. You don't need to change the pivot. Keep it the same. When the distance increases the OB is getting smaller (I know you know this, I've spoken to you and you are a super intelligent guy). This means you have to adjust your aim point to find the edge of the ball as it appears in your perspective. It helps to approach the shot correctly as we previously talked about the shot circle and perspective. A 3D diagram would show this. You still aim at the edge of the balls unless they are close to you or you have thin cuts (again, 90 reverse is aimed at the opposite edge of OB).
The only thing I would not use in your drawing is that the pivot point is not at the bridge, but probably further back as you hip pivot. I feel like it is around the joint of my cue. Not sure. If I think about it, it messes me up!
I use the 90 half ball for thinner cuts. I aim the edge of the CB to the center of the OB (1/2 ball) and pivot. For the thinnest cuts I use 90 reverse. I line up the edge of the CB with the OPPOSITE side of the OB and pivot. This is good for 80-90 degree cuts. Say for a cut to the left, I line up the CB left edge to the right edge of the OB and pivot. If you want to use inside english you don't have to pivot as you are already lined up for it.
With closer shots I use 90 half ball. You have to try each setup until the shot looks right. You don't need to change the pivot. Keep it the same. When the distance increases the OB is getting smaller (I know you know this, I've spoken to you and you are a super intelligent guy
). This means you have to adjust your aim point to find the edge of the ball as it appears in your perspective. It helps to approach the shot correctly as we previously talked about the shot circle and perspective. A 3D diagram would show this. You still aim at the edge of the balls unless they are close to you or you have thin cuts (again, 90 reverse is aimed at the opposite edge of OB).The only thing I would not use in your drawing is that the pivot point is not at the bridge, but probably further back as you hip pivot. I feel like it is around the joint of my cue. Not sure. If I think about it, it messes me up!
For the 90 to center. Has anybody got any thoughts on how to detemine the center of the object ball when looking at it, especially when farther away. I'm using the point that the OB is sitting on, but maybe someone has a better way to see it. I'm thinking that it has to do with my eyes is why I'm not seeing it as well.
Rotate around the OB until the edge of the CB hits the 6:00 line in your vision (see my blog). So it's an edge-to-center orientation. If you don't go about it like that, it's easy to have a perception error in your alignment.
Dave
I look at the center of the OB circle (what a sphere looks like).
Your method of looking at where the OB rests on the table is OK but not a finite point - it can be blurry - to me.
Bustamonte interestingly starts almost all of his shots with the tip of his cue aimed at where the CB rests on the table - perhaps to center his cue and achieve proper alignment - for him.
Your drawing is accurate with how I set up my shots for around 30 degrees or less. When the distance increases I can shoot more than 30 degrees with the same setup. You just have to get down and look at it to know. I haven't mastered the feel for the point that I have to change to 90 half ball yet.
I use the 90 half ball for thinner cuts. I aim the edge of the CB to the center of the OB (1/2 ball) and pivot. For the thinnest cuts I use 90 reverse. I line up the edge of the CB with the OPPOSITE side of the OB and pivot. This is good for 80-90 degree cuts. Say for a cut to the left, I line up the CB left edge to the right edge of the OB and pivot. If you want to use inside english you don't have to pivot as you are already lined up for it.
With closer shots I use 90 half ball. You have to try each setup until the shot looks right. You don't need to change the pivot. Keep it the same. When the distance increases the OB is getting smaller (I know you know this, I've spoken to you and you are a super intelligent guy
The only thing I would not use in your drawing is that the pivot point is not at the bridge, but probably further back as you hip pivot. I feel like it is around the joint of my cue. Not sure. If I think about it, it messes me up!
It appears that you are not describing "classic" 90/90 as I understand it for you are using edges >O< and centers and not the point that the path from the pocket enters the OB through it's center and exits at a point on the side closest to you. As the angle from the pocket changes so does the location of the point along the equator of the OB.
None of this matters though for I am being academic.
I have morphed CTE, 90/90 and contact to contact - parallel shift etc. into something that will work with a comfortable bridge distance that doesn't change (as you) for all distances and cut angles between the OB and CB.
I have and continue to be a double the distance shooter but am looking for the nuts when aiming off of the OB from 31 to 89 degrees.:wink:
Thanks for sharing.
Who knows what I'm using! I started out fooloing around with CTE. When the balls started to disappear I did a little more research and found 90/90 sounded alot closer to my "system" than CTE. Since then I've been winging it so to speak and asking questions. I don't need all the answers at once. I just need a tip here and there to work on a little bit of it. Too much info all at once wouldn't help. Don't ask me for a diagram. I'm goin' commando!:grin:
Your drawing is accurate with how I set up my shots for around 30 degrees or less. When the distance increases I can shoot more than 30 degrees with the same setup. You just have to get down and look at it to know. I haven't mastered the feel for the point that I have to change to 90 half ball yet.
I use the 90 half ball for thinner cuts. I aim the edge of the CB to the center of the OB (1/2 ball) and pivot. For the thinnest cuts I use 90 reverse. I line up the edge of the CB with the OPPOSITE side of the OB and pivot. This is good for 80-90 degree cuts. Say for a cut to the left, I line up the CB left edge to the right edge of the OB and pivot. If you want to use inside english you don't have to pivot as you are already lined up for it.
With closer shots I use 90 half ball. You have to try each setup until the shot looks right. You don't need to change the pivot. Keep it the same. When the distance increases the OB is getting smaller (I know you know this, I've spoken to you and you are a super intelligent guy
The only thing I would not use in your drawing is that the pivot point is not at the bridge, but probably further back as you hip pivot. I feel like it is around the joint of my cue. Not sure. If I think about it, it messes me up!
BINGO!!!!!:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
I tried 90/90 but I had a hard time seeing where the line to the pocket enters the OB on the side that I can't see.
I will look at that before I get down if I'm not sure of the angle on tougher shots, but not on the majority of them. I know pretty close to where the OB needs to go so I just concentrate on my 90 ETE, 1/2 and reverse aiming points. You will know if the shot is there after awhile.
I started with easier 15 degree or so cuts until my bridge and pivot were consistent. That is the hardest part. You use your left eye on ETE cuts to the left and right eye on right cuts. Use your dominant eye on thicker cuts (Perfect Aim). On straight in cuts that are just a few degrees don't use the CB edge. Instead go a tip or so off CB center to OB edge. Your pivot won't be as wide. You'll be surprised once you learn the straight cuts how dead center you hit them. At first they look a little off, but they usually are bullseyes.
After using the 90/90 I realized my aiming has gotten better when I don't use it. The angles are starting to be fine tuned and my ball pocketing has improved. I have actually used it as a sort of training tool instead of guessing on the angles. It's no fun rattling balls!:shakehead: