9B: Runout or Early 9?
- Thread starter okinawa77
- Start date
if your playing someone that doesnt usually get out and u have an early shot at a combod 9 then go for it...it gives u 2 chances to win the rack at least....if your like me youll hang it and then theyll combo it in and act like a champion. 
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sjm said:
My perception of a professional player, isn't someone that counts the # of balls they run, but the # of racks they run.
I think your comments/experiences are what I expect from the majority of players.
Me and my practice buddy are close in SL, but I cannot out play him. I know that I should practice to be able to out run him, but it seems strange to me that I can ride the 9 and turn the tables around.
He consistently beats me when I go for the run because he plays at a higher level than me, but when I ride the 9, I consistently beat him.
I'm kind of torn, mentally. If I practice running balls, then I will get better at running out.....but my early 9 skills will diminish.
If I practice early 9's, then my run outs will diminish.
When there is no one to play, I practice by myself by taking all 15 balls and throwing them out on the table randomly. Then, I take ball in hand for the first shot (on the 1 ball), and I try to run it out. When I come across a situation where I cannot pocket the OB, I look for caroms, combos, etc... in order to continue the run.
From what I read from this thread, most players only go for the 9 when it's a cinch.
What about when the shot for the 9 is about the same probability of success as the run out?
Do you go for the run out?
Or shoot the 9?
LILJOHN30 said:
I have had this mentality for practice, that Sweet Marissa and you have pointed out, but my success with riding the 9 is making me wonder.
I don't swing wildly at the 9, but sometimes the shot requires some power.
So, it can be percieved as a wild shot.
Shouldn't your practice reflect your "competition" play?
So, should you practice like your are playing for stakes?
Why would you practice one way, and compete a different way?
okinawa77 said:
Sorry, but frankly I don't believe any of these statements. In particular I don't believe either one of you is as good as you say - if you were you wouldn't be riding the 9.
Keep an actual score for awhile and get back to us.
pj
chgo
okinawa77 said:
In a small percentage of the racks, the nine will be situated where playing it early is the right approach. Sometmes, an early chance on the nine will even land in your lap. Obviously, there are situations when playing the nine early is right, but my guess is that they occur in about one rack of every six.
...... however, your posts in this thread do not ask whether one should ever adopt this approach in a rack. You have contended that a strategic orientation that focuses on playing the nine early in the course of all racks can be more successful than a runout oriented approach to the game. The answer, for me, remains, that this strategic orientation is so far off the beaten path that I haven't seen a single serious player adopt it against a worthy opponent in forty three years around the game.
I think it's much less than that - unless your opponent is much better than you are.
pj
chgo
okinawa77 said:
If you really want to do it, keep track of the things you stated:
run lengths per inning for each of you
who wins by how much when you don't ride the 9
who wins by how much when you do
I think you'll be surprised.
pj
chgo
P.S. By the way, I think your poll is worded incorrectly. You ask if it's best to run out or to pot the 9. Of course it's best to pot the 9 - assuming you pot it. You should have asked if it's better to try to pot the 9.
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MJR77 said:
How many times have you seen guys who CAN runout regularly on TV?? Just saying...
I have no idea if Mike Massey and Tom Rossman can run out regularly, but I see them on TV all the time.
trustyrusty said:
i lol'd a little.
sjm said:
I cannot dispute your many years of experience.
But here are some of my experiences....
I played about 10 sets (race to 5), and lost almost all the sets when trying to play the run.
The next 10 sets, I was tired of losing, and I started playing the E9, and I won almost all the sets.
It goes against everything, everyone has ever told me about playing 9B, but it seems to be working for me. I can't explain why, maybe I was lucky, maybe my buddy was so upset about it that it affected his game.
I really don't know.
Awhile back, I matched up with a local league player and we played some for $20 a game. Normally, I don't play for that much, but I was strokin good lately, and thought I had a good chance...even though I never met this guy. He got ahead of me because he was running out more often than me, but we both were playing really good. I was pressed for time, so I decided to start potting the 9. I came back from a big deficit (about 10 games), and had to leave a loser at 3 games down ($60).
I think in a majority of racks, there will be at least 1 cluster or problem area that will need to be addressed in order to run out.
How is it different, breaking out a cluster, than potting the 9?
In both cases, it takes a lot of precision to break clusters/pot the 9.
In both cases, if the shot is unsuccessful, you've most likely sold out.
I know in my mind, that I should go for the run....but in the back of my mind, the early 9 is naggin at me...and sometimes I cannot resist the urge.
With the poll, I was hoping to see what other players think about the E9 vs RO.
I can't help but wonder...why an early 9 constitutes a win?
If the game is meant for run outs, then why allow an early 9?
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Sweet Marissa
www.Bella-Muse.com
Because during practise, you're trying to make yourself a better player. During a tournament or money game, you're playing to win.okinawa77 said:
MJR77 said:
There's a big difference between a "run out" and a "break and run".
Key word being "break".
I usually don't make anything on the break, and I leave a wide open table. When I do make a ball on the break (once in a blue moon), I'm more often than not, hooked.
I don't consider myself even close to professional level, except in the extremely rare occasion that I'm in the zone. But, who isn't playing at a high level when in the zone.
The players on TV are playing top level. It's usually the semi and finals. So, you are watching the best of the best.
I think I saw on TV that SVB had a 50+% break and run rate.
Even with some ROs and BARs, that is no where near the same galaxy as a 50+% BAR rate.
okinawa77 said:
From this I'm assuming your problem is your safety game.
The object of the game is essentially to maintain control of the table, even when your not shooting. When you leave the table you want to leave it with your opponent disadvantaged, whether it be with them snookered or in a position they can not run out from.
With that being said, you don't need to kill yourself trying to break up a cluster. If there isn't a reasonable option available you need to look for a safety. You can play position for a safety, if the break out is low precentage.
There are a lot of players who can run out consistently. One of the reasons they fall short of top competition is their tactical game is weak. Powerful offense is nothing if you can't force mistakes from your opponents. Furthermore if your not shooting well, smart play can often get you through otherwise unwinable matches.
Essentially what I'm saying is that taking a low percentage shot on the 9, is not maintaining control of the table. Sometimes it can be the best option but you have to look for a two way shot in that scenario.
Cameron Smith said:
Playing a safety is not that difficult.....Playing a really, really good safety is difficult. IMO, playing a strong safety is just as difficult as breaking a cluster or potting the 9.
Most strong safeties are close to carom shots. You hit the OB, and get the CB to hide near another ball.
Just having a ball between the CB and OB isn't a good enough safety. My buddy can shoot single rail kicks, very well. For a good safety, I have to put a lot of distance and get the CB very, very close to another ball.
And he's not too shabby with 2 rail kicks, either. He'll hit the OB, but not as likely to pocket the ball. He does sometimes manage to leave me safe, though.
He's taught me some safety shots. And it has helped my game, but his safety and counter safety skills are stronger than mine.
I've always let certain situations dictate the decisions I make when choosing to make a quick combination or to try and run out the rack.
First, if my opponent has dominated play and time at the table and is way ahead in the match, I will take the run out unless I have a combination that's so easy I can't miss it. My reasoning is, I need to slow my opponents momentum and if I can't run out with, I'm assuming I have ball-in-hand, I'll never win the match anyway.
If I'm the one controlling the match and have built a big lead, I should bury my opponent as quick as possible.
Great question.
First, if my opponent has dominated play and time at the table and is way ahead in the match, I will take the run out unless I have a combination that's so easy I can't miss it. My reasoning is, I need to slow my opponents momentum and if I can't run out with, I'm assuming I have ball-in-hand, I'll never win the match anyway.
If I'm the one controlling the match and have built a big lead, I should bury my opponent as quick as possible.
Great question.
LOL. You should have told us in the beginning that you've never played pool before.
pj
chgo