9B: Runout or Early 9?

[Big Perm]

A nine on the break is sweet.....so is a nice combo or carom....

Typically, if the runout is going to be tough, and I've got a good chance at a carom or combo early in the rack, I'm going to go for it.....if the 9 is in the jaws/easy combo set up during the run, then that is a no brainer....

I think some of the banger comments are regarding players that "chase/roll the nine".....if there is any possible way to roll that bad boy, well they are going to do it, regardless of the layout.....I see a lot of this, especially on 7 footers with buckets....it gets annoying when they roll the 9 with every shot....IMHO, these guys are bangers - they'll get a few rolls here or there, but over time their game won't stand up to someone who has a more balanced game and can run out....

A good player can do both and will take the right path when the situation calls for it.....

 

[Johnnyt]

I all depends on a lot of things. How good you are,how hard is the combo, carom or kiss on the 9. If your a "C" player and the balls are tied up and laying bad for a break-out, you probably would be better off trying to make the 9 with a safety built in if it's a 50% shot or better. If balls are tied up, most "C" players won't run out often anyway. Johnnyt

 

[Cuebacca]

Nei

Not enough information given for me to vote in the poll.

You should always choose the option that will maximize your chances of winning. Sometimes that means run out. Sometimes that means try for early 9. Sometimes that means play safe. Once in a while that might mean trying for all 3 at the same time. :thumbup:

 

[BVal]

I agree with what most people have said....

If the table is tied up and there is no easy out and there is a possiblity of taking the combo - I will fire at it as long as there is not the possiblity of breaking up the tied up balls.

If it is 80% or better to make it - I will take it.

If it is a cut combo I most likely will not take it and try the run out.

There are just so many situations that come up where you might take it and might not it is a tough question to answer. I didn't vote because of that.

I don't consider myself a banger. There are players out there that will fire at the 9 no matter where it is on the table and no matter what situation it is. I consider those players bangers. I actually prefer to play them because they may get lucky sometimes and they may win sometimes but in the long run they will miss and lose.

Just my opinion.

Thanks,

BVal

 

[9 on the snap]

it dosent matter one bit, no matter the circumstances you try to do what ever it takes to win each rack. the number of times it goes in is what counts not when, this is a fact.

Ditto, you do what you gotta do to sink the money ball. Period.

 

[trustyrusty]

the way the OP put it is he WINS when he goes for the 9 early, but LOSES (against his buddy) if he tries to play run out only. Gee, tough call there, win against him or lose??? If it's for money, WIN, if you want to get better (learn to run out more), I guess, LOSE for now....

Personally I'm not a big fan of losing, so if that's the only way to beat him, do what it takes to beat him. You do need to learn to run out though, so practice against the ghost runnng out (he won't take your money), and if you work at it more than your buddy, eventually you'll beat him both ways!!

 

[Sweet Marissa]

Most 9 Ball players have told me it's better to run out, than to pot the 9 in early.

What do you think?

If it's practise, try to run out.

If it's a tournament or money game, if you can make it early, do it.

 

[supergreenman]

If the early 9 is the logical choice for you to win the rack early why would you jepardize this by running the balls out.

Conversly, riding the 9 should be avoided at all costs.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Most 9 Ball players have told me it's better to run out, than to pot the 9 in early.

What do you think?

Completely up to the layout

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Most good players can run the last 6-7 balls much more easily than they could pocket a difficult combo/carom.

This is the crux of the question - it depends on how good a player you are and how good your opponent is.

If you can't consistently run several balls in a row, and you're playing against somebody who can, you're probably doomed in most games unless you can luck the 9 ball in early. But be aware that it's usually luck, not skill, when you make it. It just might be less luck than it would take to get several trips to the table against a decent player. My advice: don't play somebody who's that much better than you.

If you're playing against a player that's about your own skill level, then it's almost always better to take "normal" shots rather than try your luck at 9 ball combos. It may take you 3-5 innings to work your way through a rack, but against a player of similar skill you'll probably get that many chances. On the other hand, you won't make one lucky combo every 3-5 tries, so plugging away at the run is better odds for you.

pj
chgo

 

[Pushout]

After some thought, I decided to address this again. Back in the day, there were guys who practically made a living out of riding the 9 ball because their opponents thought it was luck when it really wasn't. It was an educated guess that was often right. Those same people wanted spots from the better players, including me. They didn't get those spots often, so they continued to play the smaller fish.
When I moved the SC and was practicing with certain people, those people would complain if you played safe or "shot a leave" as they called it. The same people complained if you made the 9 early. I had never heard that kind of whining before and was really puzzled by it. If you don't want me to play hard enough to win, don't ask me to play. I try to play as hard in practice as I do in a money game or tournament match and it's hard for me to do so, especially when playing friends who aren't into it like I am or people who play "for fun". As another poster said, I hate to lose and won't, even if practice, if I can help it.

 

[crawfish]

I never try to run out. Fram it, baby. Fram it! Ball in hand? Bank it on the nine four rails. Rollllll it. Of course, if I could run four in a row, I might see things different.

That is exactly why I need the five, six and the break from all you champeens.

 

[soulcatcher]

There are way too many variables to answer this question.

What rules are we playing? Is it APA, Valley Team, or Singles? Or are we just playing for fun?

APA if I have a shot at a early 9, I don't take it unless the table layout is bad.

Valley team, is my team ahead or behind. If we are ahead, I take the 9, if we are behind I go for the runout.

Valley singles, the only thing that matters is winning the game. I go for the 9.

If I am just messing around, I go for the runout unless I have no other option.

There is no way to answer the poll unless I know the situation.

 

[TX Poolnut]

Do what you have to do to win.

If your friend is getting pissed, it's not because your comboing balls in. It's because he is losing and can't take it.

 

[okinawa77]

In this neck of the woods, most go for the run regardless. I believe this is because APA 9 ball is popular here and each ball pocketed is a point, with the 9 being 2 points, the rack a total of 10 points. Since APA 9 ball is short rack straight pool, point count is what is sought after.
This becomes a weakness in tournament play because these players often over look the opportunity to win the game outright.

That said, if it is reasonably playable, and it is the logical shot, I will go for it every time. If it makes more sense to run the rack or play safe, that's what I do. I see nothing wrong with making it early if it's possible.

I also think that many times when it goes in early it is slopped in. When playing for cash around here they play call the 9. It's kind of amusing to watch the 9 get called anytime there is a chance of it going in. You hear a lot of "9 in the corner" when there is no intention of putting it there, rather the possibility that it goes. Aside from the excessive pocket calling I feel that calling the 9 is the most reasonable way to go.

I think you have a point about calling the 9.

When playing my buddy, we are close to the same level. If I am playing run out pool in a race to 5, it usually ends 4-5 or 3-5 (I'm losing).

But if I go for the 9, I will win almost every set (90%).

I thought it was strange how he would say "that is crap pool". Yet, I did it consistently. I thought it funny when he said "you can't out play me". I thought he had a point, but I would have thought that he would realize the pattern, than I was making the 9 with a higher than 50% success rate.

I think if I call the 9, and when he sees that I am making the 9 consistently (in the pocket I call), then maybe he won't be as pissed.

By the way, I go for a Carom more often because with a carom, you don't leave as easy 9, if you miss. Whereas, a missed 9B combo will usually leave an easy 9B combo for your opponent.

 

[Richardson]

Trying to win like this is basically like in poker when people move all in on gut shot straight draws and crazy one outter draws, sure sometimes they get there .... but long term they are losing money to people who play better.

 

[okinawa77]

When guys go after an un realistic early nine instead of the out, they're considered bangers because: Most good players can run the last 6-7 balls much more easily than they could pocket a difficult combo/carom. When a guy goes after a pretty crazy combo on a 9 with lots of green, even if he/she is very skilled at the shot and can make it consistently, it still tells me that "this person just doesn't know billiards/pool very well" because in electing to take such a shot/risk, he/she has no idea of the risks involved in NOT making the shot (rattle the 9 and leave it hanging, changing the layout of the table, ect).
If you claim that you actually set up an easy nine by moving it around when playing other shots, then I think that you're taking un needed risks.
And, although I have met many many players that are actually quite amazing when it comes to long and multiple ball combos, usually they're still considered low risk shots, and if a player can get out more often with an un realistic combo than he/she can just by running out, then the player needs to work more on their 'other' skills.

Try playing the ghost or even a good player where you only get around one chance at the table per rack, and you'll never win by trying to play a game based on an early 9.
dave

(A realistic or un realistic shot on a combo 9 all depends on the player, but in general, I think if there's more than 24 inches in green between the 9 and it's desired pocket, unless it's a fairly straight shot I would consider it pretty un realistic. If there are one or more angles involved, the green distance for me would reduce to about 6-8 inches.)

Hi Dave,

I my case, I can consistently run 6-7 balls, but my buddy can consistently run 8-9 balls.
When we play races to 5, I will usually lose the sets 3 or 4 to his 5. So, they are close sets. But if I go for the 9, I win about 80-90% of the sets.
I mostly shoot carom shots. When I go for the 9, I also try to leave him with a tough shot or tough out, in case I miss the 9.

-Mathew

 

[okinawa77]

This is the crux of the question - it depends on how good a player you are and how good your opponent is.

If you can't consistently run several balls in a row, and you're playing against somebody who can, you're probably doomed in most games unless you can luck the 9 ball in early. But be aware that it's usually luck, not skill, when you make it. It just might be less luck than it would take to get several trips to the table against a decent player. My advice: don't play somebody who's that much better than you.

If you're playing against a player that's about your own skill level, then it's almost always better to take "normal" shots rather than try your luck at 9 ball combos. It may take you 3-5 innings to work your way through a rack, but against a player of similar skill you'll probably get that many chances. On the other hand, you won't make one lucky combo every 3-5 tries, so plugging away at the run is better odds for you.

pj
chgo

I can consistently run 6-7 balls.
He can consistently run 8-9 balls.

Our innings per game are 0-2, unless we get into a safety battle.

When I go for the run, the sets are close I usually lose the race to 5 by 1 or 2 games.
When I go for the 9, the sets are turned around, I usually win the race.

 

[sjm]

I can consistently run 6-7 balls.
He can consistently run 8-9 balls.

Our innings per game are 0-2, unless we get into a safety battle.

When I go for the run, the sets are close I usually lose the race to 5 by 1 or 2 games.
When I go for the 9, the sets are turned around, I usually win the race.

There is a term for a player who can consistently run 8-9 balls and that would be professional. If you can consistently run 6-7 balls, then you are a very strong amateur that often runs out, either a strong "B" player or weak "A" player. Well, in my forty three years around the game, I've neither seen nor heard of a case where somebody was consistently able to beat a top player using a strategy of riding the nine. Waiting around for chances to play the nine early against a strong player is a good approach to getting demolished. It's a strategy I've never even seen attempted aganst a top player.

Riding the nine as a strategy probably doesn't make sense for anyone above "D" level, and even then, I'd frown on it, as it ensures that one's game won't progress.

 

[Richardson]

There is a term for a player who can consistently run 8-9 balls and that would be professional. If you can consistently run 6-7 balls, then you are a very strong amateur that often runs out, either a strong "B" player or weak "A" player. Well, in my forty three years around the game, I've neither seen nor heard of a case where somebody was consistently able to beat a top player using a strategy of riding the nine. Waiting around for chances to play the nine early against a strong player is a good approach to getting demolished. It's a strategy I've never even seen attempted aganst a top player.

Riding the nine as a strategy probably doesn't make sense for anyone above "D" level, and even then, I'd frown on it, as it ensures that one's game won't progress.

very nice reply, and very truthful.