A Few CTE Questions

Casting 9s said:
So yesterday, I watched the first several videos of Stan Shuffett's CTE Pro-1 series. I then listened to them for several more hours while on my route as a mailman today so I could really let it sink into my subconscious. Then after I got home from work it was straight to the practice table. All I can really say is WOW. I've been a pretty good shot maker for awhile now (I have to credit CJ Wiley and his videos for that.) But this was another level I've never gotten to up until now. I worked on this for about 3 hours, and by the end, I was just a total sniper. The shots that have always given me the most problems are the side-pocket shots at those tough angles where you really have a tiny window. But with this, I was making them at nearly a 100% clip with ease. I was pretty skeptical about all of this, but decided to give those videos my full attention and give it a chance, and I really am glad I did now. My only minor gripe is that Stan is a bit off-center himself, so the delivery of his information is a bit awkward at times, and the cadence at which he speaks throws me off from time to time as well. However, I guess he did just fine because I remembered everything he talked about once I got on the table and I had no problems putting it all into practice. I think he is genuinely passionate about this stuff.

So I combined everything CJ taught me through his videos as far as stance and that pop-stroke and being consistent in everything I do, with this CTE Pro-1 to aim. I only missed a few balls in that whole 3 hours, and each time, the reason for the miss was easily identifiable. With that said, I do have a few questions for seasoned CTE users:

- Almost all of, if not all of the few shots I did miss were because I picked the wrong reference point (A when I should have used B, and vice versa. Or maybe using B when I should have used C). Is there a way to tell which one has to be used or does that just come through experience? It didn't happen often, but there were a few tricky angles that were kind of "tweeners" and I picked the wrong one.

- Once you get your aiming line with your head tilted using parallax vision, are you then focusing your vision straight down the center of that line with your head still tilted, or are you turning your head back straight ahead and aiming straight down the aiming line? I was doing the latter, and that felt correct.

- Is it necessary to pivot at all, or is that an entirely different, more advanced way of doing this? I was doing no pivoting whatsoever. I was finding my aiming line using the parallax vision, stepping into that line, and delivering the shot. That's it. And like I was saying, I was making literally 98% of my shots no matter the distance from the CB to OB, or length of the shot. Everything was just... automatic. I felt how Larry Bird must have felt like in all those 3-point contests. Is it ok just to stick with this, or do you recommend learning all the pivoting as well?

- I was doing this practice on a bar table. How much more fickle is this on a 9-footer? I play most of my matches on the 9-footers and I wonder how much different it will be when I take it onto those. If I can snipe like this on a 9-footer, I'll be sold for life.

Color me intrigued! I'm definitely going to be spending more time on this. It was kind of mind-blowing how well it worked, and it was really fun to use. By the end, I really had a lot of confidence in every shot I took. I knew I was going to make it before I even got down on the ball. It really just clicks.
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Your improved play was likely a placebo, or the CTE instructions helped correct something you were doing wrong incidentally. Even Stan says you have to work at this for awhile (like months) before reaping the benefits (of course, not to miss an opportunity for self promotion, CTEers also say that some people can pick it up right away). Play on a 9' table and get back to us. Sadly, you'll most certainly come back down to earth soon enough.
 
Dan White said:
Your improved play was likely a placebo, or the CTE instructions helped correct something you were doing wrong incidentally. Even Stan says you have to work at this for awhile (like months) before reaping the benefits (of course, not to miss an opportunity for self promotion, CTEers also say that some people can pick it up right away). Play on a 9' table and get back to us. Sadly, you'll most certainly come back down to earth soon enough.
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Agreed, I've been learning to speak SS language for close to 10 years and nobody picks it up in a day, and to claim it works with out sweeps or pivots is complete BS. I know this is an existing member who is trying to stir up something, they just haven't showed their hand yet. Not to mention, SS has repeatedly said the Pro One videos are incomplete and outdated. The newest, Truth Series is the most useable but is still very challenging without the book, which has it's own challenges as well.
 
Renegade_56 said:
Agreed, I've been learning to speak SS language for close to 10 years and nobody picks it up in a day, and to claim it works with out sweeps or pivots is complete BS. I know this is an existing member who is trying to stir up something, they just haven't showed their hand yet. Not to mention, SS has repeatedly said the Pro One videos are incomplete and outdated. The newest, Truth Series is the most useable but is still very challenging without the book, which has it's own challenges as well.
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Do I have you confused with someone else? I thought you were a Kool Aid drinker.
 
God, if you can't make the ball within 50% chance, play a safety. This is the skill my teacher taught me. I work on safety practice a bunch. Who can argue with that?
 
Colt Kodiak said:
God, if you can't make the ball within 50% chance, play a safety. This is the skill my teacher taught me. I work on safety practice a bunch. Who can argue with that?
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Why dont you give robin dreyer a plug ?
just sayin
 
bbb said:
Why dont you give robin dreyer a plug ?
just sayin
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I'm not understanding your post. If you shoot a ball that you have less than 50% chance of making, why miss it and leave it as a duck? Why not play a safety? Please answer.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Why do you have to pull this out of a 20+ year old garbage can and post shit like this? It's old and moldy garbage.
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Well, OK, maybe Kool Aid drinker is a poor choice of words. I thought Renegade was one of those guys equally insulting to those of us who believe CTE is something other than what it is advertised to be. I didn't see that in his latest posts so maybe I'm thinking of someone else.
 
Dan White said:
Well, OK, maybe Kool Aid drinker is a poor choice of words. I thought Renegade was one of those guys equally insulting to those of us who believe CTE is something other than what it is advertised to be. I didn't see that in his latest posts so maybe I'm thinking of someone else.
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If he was insulting to those of you who believe CTE is something else other than what it is advertised to be, he has every right especially if he now knows for himself how it does exactly what it's been advertised to do. What he did post had merit, especially for those who have never been introduced to it or delved into playing with it on the table for any length of time.
Let's face it, it's a completely different way to visually see balls, alignments, head and body positions, and how to transition
into everything to take the shot with repetitive accuracy. It's a major change, no doubt about it. And it works as advertised.

What makes you think the group of HOSTILES EIGHT haven't been insulting to those who do know and use it when none of you have a clue where to start with it and perform the simplest parts, yet continue to bad mouth?

We aren't stupid as pool players nor what we do in our professional lives. Fact is, most of us are damn good pool players be it
pros, top amateurs, money players, league, or basement dwellers. One would have to be a total moron to use something that
didn't work and caused them to play worse than what they did prior to using it.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
If he was insulting to those of you who believe CTE is something else other than what it is advertised to be, he has every right especially if he now knows for himself how it does exactly what it's been advertised to do. What he did post had merit, especially for those who have never been introduced to it or delved into playing with it on the table for any length of time.
Let's face it, it's a completely different way to visually see balls, alignments, head and body positions, and how to transition
into everything to take the shot with repetitive accuracy. It's a major change, no doubt about it. And it works as advertised.

What makes you think the group of HOSTILES EIGHT haven't been insulting to those who do know and use it when none of you have a clue where to start with it and perform the simplest parts, yet continue to bad mouth?

We aren't stupid as pool players nor what we do in our professional lives. Fact is, most of us are damn good pool players be it
pros, top amateurs, money players, league, or basement dwellers. One would have to be a total moron to use something that
didn't work and caused them to play worse than what they did prior to using it.
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You are good at insults, too. You know the bold is not true yet you say it anyway.

Nobody is saying you can't play well while using CTE. People disagree as to why that is so.
 
Dan White said:
You are good at insults, too. You know the bold is not true yet you say it anyway.
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What isn't true, the number of 8? Pick any number and it's been going on for over two decades with the same individuals.
Dan White said:
Nobody is saying you can't play well while using CTE. People disagree as to why that is so.
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LMAO! That makes zero sense and never has. How can those who don't know what to do or how to perform it argue and claim it doesn't work as stated by the people doing it have said?

But more importantly to argue, bitch, whine and cry that Stan doesn't know what HE'S talking about? Are you kidding me? It's insane! That's like some amateur hack golfer who can't break 80 posting daily on a golf forum that Butch Harmon doesn't know a damn thing about the way to play golf and what he teaches. But that's the way of social media. Say whatever you want regardless of how stupid it is for some notoriety and a puffed up chest.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
What isn't true, the number of 8? Pick any number and it's been going on for over two decades with the same individuals.

LMAO! That makes zero sense and never has. How can those who don't know what to do or how to perform it argue and claim it doesn't work as stated by the people doing it have said?

But more importantly to argue, bitch, whine and cry that Stan doesn't know what HE'S talking about? Are you kidding me? It's insane! That's like some amateur hack golfer who can't break 80 posting daily on a golf forum that Butch Harmon doesn't know a damn thing about the way to play golf and what he teaches. But that's the way of social media. Say whatever you want regardless of how stupid it is for some notoriety and a puffed up chest.
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Dan literally highlighted, in bold, exactly what he is referring too.

Instead of working on CTE, I suggest taking some time to work on your reading and comprehension skill sets.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
What isn't true, the number of 8? Pick any number and it's been going on for over two decades with the same individuals.

LMAO! That makes zero sense and never has. How can those who don't know what to do or how to perform it argue and claim it doesn't work as stated by the people doing it have said?

But more importantly to argue, bitch, whine and cry that Stan doesn't know what HE'S talking about? Are you kidding me? It's insane! That's like some amateur hack golfer who can't break 80 posting daily on a golf forum that Butch Harmon doesn't know a damn thing about the way to play golf and what he teaches. But that's the way of social media. Say whatever you want regardless of how stupid it is for some notoriety and a puffed up chest.
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You don't understand the argument many of us have been making. That doesn't make us wrong.
 
Dan White said:
You don't understand the argument many of us have been making. That doesn't make us wrong.
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It doesn't make you wrong about WHAT specifically? Refresh my memory on the argument "many" (8) have been making.

From time to time I take vacations from here and miss out on all of the inane back and forth. You've been helpful with that.

Here's a question for you. OB is on the spot. CB is away from the side rail diamond closest to the side pocket10 3/4" from rail
to back of the CB. (the side closest to you) How do you align the CB to the OB with CTE to pocket the OB in the right corner pocket? IOW, what do you see and how do you do it? It's a cut to the right.

Next: Same setup EXCEPT the CB is 14 3/4" from side rail to back of OB. What do you see and how do you do it?

Be explicit in your written instructions. (it's not complicated in the least and doesn't need much wording) I can do it in 10 words.

After finishing your post, did you take the shots? What happened? Go in or miss?
 
cookie man said:
Can you explain it as per the example Spider posted above?
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He's gonna need a diagram because his explanation makes no sense. Is the CB past the side pocket (i.e. near the OB) or before the side pocket (nearer the head end of the table)? A diagram would be better, chalkysticks.com.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
It doesn't make you wrong about WHAT specifically? Refresh my memory on the argument "many" (8) have been making.

From time to time I take vacations from here and miss out on all of the inane back and forth. You've been helpful with that.
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Stan and his followers believe that CTE is objective and requires NO understanding of when a shot "looks" on. In other words, there is no subjectivity in aiming when the CTE steps are learned and applied precisely. Generally speaking, shallow angle shots are "A" perceptions, larger angles near half ball hits are "B" perceptions and shots near 45 degrees are "C" perceptions. Stan often labeled these as 15, 30 and 45 degree perceptions as a quick way to reference them. CTE people think that all A shots can be pocketed with the exact same instructions and every shot will go CENTER POCKET until that perception doesn't work any more and you have to go to the B perceptions. So, to be clear, when you can't get a center pocket result with the A perception you can switch over to B and start getting that center pocket again. Inside and outside pivots make this possible, so that a 15 degree outside pivot is the same as a 30 degree inside pivot.

The above flies in the face of physics, geometry and plain common sense. You can't get different results unless you pivot differently or set up to the shot differently. But, not to have a closed mind, many of us were eager to understand how this could possibly work. The answer is a garbled, confused mish mash of terms like visual intelligence, stepping the cue ball, round barns and so on. The question cannot be answered because it doesn't really happen. What does happen, most likely, is that the player, over months and months of practice, finds a way to make the shots go even when they are lined up wrong. Some probably pivot different amounts depending on the shot (like mohrt in his videos) and others might simply set up a little different each time depending on the shot. In other words, and I've said this before, I think the more precisely you follow the CTE steps the worse your results will be because you will be getting the results you should get: Sometimes the balls will match up with the different perceptions and the ball will go in, and other times it won't. If you allow yourself a little breathing room, such as doing away with the rigid manual pivot in favor of more subjective methods like visual sweeps or stepping, then you will give your subconscious the ability to make the shot go.

You yourself have said many times that you "don't give a shit" how it works. It just does. Well, respectfully speaking, if you have that attitude then in my book you forfeit the right to have these kinds of discussions. The fact that it works for you is meaningless. That does not prove that the system is objective or that it works in any way close to what Stan says. It simply means that you shoot well with CTE as a pre-shot routine for whatever reason. Maybe it forces you to slow down or pay more attention or keeps you out of some other bad habit that lowers your pocketing percentage. Whatever it is, I'm quite sure that it isn't some phenomena that "was never meant to be" and that has never been identified in 20 years.

This is why I invented the jelly bean method "JBM" TRADEMARK (just kidding) to illustrate these fallacies. The method instructs you to put two jellybeans in your left pocket and tap on the pocket before you get into shooting position. You set up a series of 1/4 ball, 1/2 ball and full ball shots at various places on the table and then you put in some serious table time. Put in a minimum of 20 hours per week for 3 months and the JBM will have you shooting lights out. Just make sure you tap those jelly beans and, oh, one other thing. You MUST have a straight stroke in order for this to work. I contend that this method has improved my game immensely. It's like stealing. I don't really give a shit how the jelly beans are able to transfer their mojo to my cue but they do. The proof is that I play so much better using JBM. It has nothing to do with the fact that I put in many hours of structured practice. It all has to do with the jelly bean mojo even though I don't care what that is.

Do you understand the argument now?
 
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