A few thoughts on "ahead" sets or any kind of weight giving

[Avathar]

I do not want to put anybody down on this, or even judge that kind of play, don't get me wrong on this...

It just came to my mind, when reading about the Challebge matches called by Rodney, Dennis and Daz.
For me, the only reason for the TAR Challenges was, to determine who is the better player (eventhough I do not believe that sets to 100 make too much of a sense, but proove who stays longer on focus in average)

Now I read, that the match that Dennis won against Daz was with Dennis getting the 8.

What is the point in calling out a challenge and then asking for weight?
This is like APA more or less ... Just with money on the table ...

Why would anybody want to play such a match, apart from thinking that he can rip off somebody else, because he can judge the other persons speed better than he can himself ...

Why not play "straight" between these guys? I mean next time they come up with a MC weight giving system?!

Sorry, I just do not get the point from the sports side of billards... Of course, for money making it might be a different perspective, but since here it seems to be common opinion that such challenges are a proof of ability ... How could that be, if you do not play equal?

I find that a bit confusing ...

 

[easy-e]

I thought they played even, but Chris got the 8.

 

[prad]

I do not want to put anybody down on this, or even judge that kind of play, don't get me wrong on this...

It just came to my mind, when reading about the Challebge matches called by Rodney, Dennis and Daz.
For me, the only reason for the TAR Challenges was, to determine who is the better player (eventhough I do not believe that sets to 100 make too much of a sense, but proove who stays longer on focus in average)

Now I read, that the match that Dennis won against Daz was with Dennis getting the 8.

What is the point in calling out a challenge and then asking for weight?
This is like APA more or less ... Just with money on the table ...

Why would anybody want to play such a match, apart from thinking that he can rip off somebody else, because he can judge the other persons speed better than he can himself ...

Why not play "straight" between these guys? I mean next time they come up with a MC weight giving system?!

Sorry, I just do not get the point from the sports side of billards... Of course, for money making it might be a different perspective, but since here it seems to be common opinion that such challenges are a proof of ability ... How could that be, if you do not play equal?

I find that a bit confusing ...

There are two types of action (gambling matches), one is where you have no chance to win which most people get hustled into, the "bad action". And the other is "good action", where IMO you can either win or loose but neither player is "steeling".

Most of the gambling matches are won/lost before actual play, there are some people that know how to talk it out. A lot of times even if a player gets some "weight" from his/her opponent it can still be a "challenge" for them. Just cuz a player is getting "weight" don't mean that they are stealing.

 

[DAVE_M]

I thought they played even, but Chris got the 8.

I'm pretty sure you're right. Why would Dennis need the 8? Let alone, why would Daz give Dennis the 8?

Ahead sets are fun to play, something like 8 or 9 ahead is ridiculous and usually ends up with both players agreeing to quit. 5 ahead 9-ball with two runout players is exciting to watch. I agree with the weight, a player has no business playing when he/she needs so much weight as say the 7 and out or more.

What gets me is when you get two in the ring playing one pocket with wacky weight like 15-3. That's when it starts getting stupid.

 

[Chesscat]

ahead sets

The best gambling I ever saw was about 12 years ago in Houston at Bogies. Jeremy Jones was having a charity benefit tournament and lots of great and good players were in town, like Johnny Archer, Gabe Owen, Franco, and many more. The benefit was played at a new pool hall Crazy 8s, but the gambing was in the pit at Bogies.

Keith Bennett played Davy G one night, and the next night Sparky Ferrell played Ismael Paez. They were both ahead sets, Sparky's it seems was 10 ahead, maybe Keith's also. Ahead sets are like two gladiators battling, with momentum shifting and mental strength and endurance at a premium. Surely the best gambling, and really the best pool I will ever see.

The guys were backed of course, not playing with their own, and the backer was someone from the underworld, a necessary ingredient for high stakes pool.

I will never forget it. Sparky's game with Ismael started at about 10 at night, Ismael arrived looking dapper and fresh, Sparky not so much. By 9:30 in the morning Ismael was on the hill, then Sparky caught his last gear and brought it back to 1 down. Then he was exhausted, or out of fuel, and Ismael finished him off.

I remember Davy G in his sandals, the first time I ever saw a jump bank shot, like an arrow right through Keith's heart.

 

[ironman]

There are two types of action (gambling matches), one is where you have no chance to win which most people get hustled into, the "bad action". And the other is "good action", where IMO you can either win or loose but neither player is "steeling".

Most of the gambling matches are won/lost before actual play, there are some people that know how to talk it out. A lot of times even if a player gets some "weight" from his/her opponent it can still be a "challenge" for them. Just cuz a player is getting "weight" don't mean that they are stealing.

Getting weight does not mean a guy is stealing at all. In years oast the guy getting the wieght lost about 84% of the time. Fiving up weight for some is jus no big deal..
If it were not for giving up weight, Keith would have rarely been in action and many others too. Keith gqave the world weight and could handle it real well.
CLiff "was" another who gave up the world and handled it real well.
I watched Buddy give Louie the call 7 and it rqrely even came into play with Buddy winning 4 sets in about 28 hours.

 

[King T]

Ahead Dets???

Ahead sets if the are short are cool, but when people play 9 Ball or 10 Ball 8,9, 10 Ahead, its like saying I don't want to lose any money. Most of the long Ahead sets end with both guys agreeing t give up and I feel they knew it would go that way from the beginning.

Weight is a must. Cliff came to Houston and did real well giving up some crazy weight to top players! These weren't tricks, he just a Master and he showed it. Rafael gives up weight and just keep running out so it doesn't matter, he just wins.

When its two guys that are close, they should just play, but that's not the case with the American players and that's way they have a tuff time with players from around the world.

 

[Black-Balled]

If people only played even, there would be far fewer matching up.

In fact, I would argue that handicapping's intent is to create equal pairings of skill level/ match ups wher the do not exist

 

[Banks]

What is the point in calling out a challenge and then asking for weight?
This is like APA more or less ... Just with money on the table ...

Why would anybody want to play such a match, apart from thinking that he can rip off somebody else, because he can judge the other persons speed better than he can himself ...

There are a lot of reasons. It can also be like saying, "I think I'm better at my rating than you are at yours." Same with how BB said it.. nobody would match up! I like tempting my friends with an extra s/l spot in 9b, because it's like a pool exercise to me. I've done all kinds of spots with friends.. bnr don't count unless I get 2 or more in a row, no 8 ball runouts, I have to play safe once, I have to bank 8. It's all about letting the person feel their part of the game. Otherwise, they can just go a table over and get in all of the playing they want.