a good stroke

dgem said:
deadgearplyr said:
Being a pupil of Buddy Hall, I have a couple of things you might be interested in knowing.

The pre-shot routine: Look at where you want to go and visualize that in your mind. Step into the shot with your right side aligned

Hi, Could you explain this further? Those are nice tips from you thanks :)

dgem said:
deadgearplyr said:
Being a pupil of Buddy Hall, I have a couple of things you might be interested in knowing.

The pre-shot routine: Look at where you want to go and visualize that in your mind. Step into the shot with your right side aligned

Hi, Could you explain this further? Those are nice tips from you thanks :)

Well I will try to be as simple as I can. I will assume that whoever is reading has runout knowledge (9-ball). Thinking three balls ahead, we always look at the next shot's correct angle, not just the ball, to get to the third shot away. When looking at the current shot,

1. Look at where you want the cue ball to go. (In doing that, you determine what english if any you want to use and maybe apply the clock system [look at where 12 o'clock takes you, then subtract or add from there] This is visualized and determined by an experienced player in just a few seconds.

2. By determining where you want to go, you have determined the contact point on the object ball. (When using different english, the contact point may slightly different especially with different shafts.) This is where you look when you step into the shot.

3. When you do step in, you will point your left foot toward the shot and put the back foot in line with the shot, keeping your stroking forearm true to the shot through the entire warm up and follow through. (Some players, especially players like Busti, use their wrist and Buddy advises against this.) Keep your hand gripped fully on the cue and stop completely before you fire. Your grip hand side of the body should be lined up with the shot. That means the elbow, right foot, right shoulder, hip, and forearm and dominant eye. When you do, come back without dipping the tip and go straight through to the contact point keeping the cue as level as possible. Your bridge has an enormous amount of influence on whether your stroke will be solid or not. Keep your hand flat on the table when at all possible. Use just as the least amount of force needed to get the job done. [Don't slam balls just to look like a bad ass.]

4. When you pull the trigger, you hit the entire shot with the correct english as accurately as humanly possible to come within an inch of your desired destination. (Inexperienced players poke, slap or lift through the ball as opposed to pushing straight through the shot. If you had to draw the ball three rails after shooting in the side pocket, you would imagine where the cue ball is going to end up and hit that shot as a whole as opposed to just making it in the side with a questionable amount of force. This is what gives you the smoothness you're looking for and also the accuracy you can't do without.

Anyways, I hope this helps. What I told you is something most any BCA instructor knows. What I can't give you is experience. I've been playing for almost 20 yrs, so I am at a somewhat high level where Buddy and I relate well to. I don't know your capability, but you apparently are searching for knowledge, and that is something we should never stop doing. I feel extremely fortunate to have such a deep well of wisdom and experience right there everyday. I finally feel like I have almost every doubt eliminated from my game and I have no where to go but the sky.

My cue maker told me once, that you will never be able to 'get there' unless you have someone who's been there tell you how, and I believe that. You can practice by yourself all day, everyday, but you've got to have some tips and little hints along the way from good players. Watch good players and don't just emulate them, find out why they do what they do. Never be afraid to seek more knowledge. Ask, seek, knock, and it shall be given to you. Good luck, my fellow AZB'r.:thumbup:
 
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deadgearplyr said:
Watch good players and don't just emulate them, find out why they do what they do. Good luck, my fellow AZB'r.:thumbup:

Thats exactly what i wanted to know and why i asked what to look out for.

Your post has been helpfull. after 10 years of playing, and ive spend the last 2 years mainly on getting a good stroke (My previous stroke didnt alow me to get better), i think ive got one, but i want to be 100% sure. my level is B+, If in stroke i can play even with the 9ball ghost and BIH

I'll will post some short video's tonight from various positions. Maybe that will be the best way for you to tell me if ive understood all the principles or if there is still something i'm overlooking.

I just want to be 100% sure before i repeat this stroke for the next 50 years :D i DONT want to readjust my stroke every 10 years. Been there once, it was a pain in the **, but well worth it.

thanks for the reply's.
 
deadgearplyr said:
dgem said:
dgem said:
Well I will try to be as simple as I can. I will assume that whoever is reading has runout knowledge (9-ball). Thinking three balls ahead, we always look at the next shot's correct angle, not just the ball, to get to the third shot away. When looking at the current shot,

1. Look at where you want the cue ball to go. (In doing that, you determine what english if any you want to use and maybe apply the clock system [look at where 12 o'clock takes you, then subtract or add from there] This is visualized and determined by an experienced player in just a few seconds.

2. By determining where you want to go, you have determined the contact point on the object ball. (When using different english, the contact point may slightly different especially with different shafts.) This is where you look when you step into the shot.

3. When you do step in, you will point your left foot toward the shot and put the back foot in line with the shot, keeping your stroking forearm true to the shot through the entire warm up and follow through. (Some players, especially players like Busti, use their wrist and Buddy advises against this.) Keep your hand gripped fully on the cue and stop completely before you fire. Your grip hand side of the body should be lined up with the shot. That means the elbow, right foot, right shoulder, hip, and forearm and dominant eye. When you do, come back without dipping the tip and go straight through to the contact point keeping the cue as level as possible. Your bridge has an enormous amount of influence on whether your stroke will be solid or not. Keep your hand flat on the table when at all possible. Use just as the least amount of force needed to get the job done. [Don't slam balls just to look like a bad ass.]

4. When you pull the trigger, you hit the entire shot with the correct english as accurately as humanly possible to come within an inch of your desired destination. (Inexperienced players poke, slap or lift through the ball as opposed to pushing straight through the shot. If you had to draw the ball three rails after shooting in the side pocket, you would imagine where the cue ball is going to end up and hit that shot as a whole as opposed to just making it in the side with a questionable amount of force. This is what gives you the smoothness you're looking for and also the accuracy you can't do without.

Anyways, I hope this helps. What I told you is something most any BCA instructor knows. What I can't give you is experience. I've been playing for almost 20 yrs, so I am at a somewhat high level where Buddy and I relate well to. I don't know your capability, but you apparently are searching for knowledge, and that is something we should never stop doing. I feel extremely fortunate to have such a deep well of wisdom and experience right there everyday. I finally feel like I have almost every doubt eliminated from my game and I have no where to go but the sky.

My cue maker told me once, that you will never be able to 'get there' unless you have someone who's been there tell you how, and I believe that. You can practice by yourself all day, everyday, but you've got to have some tips and little hints along the way from good players. Watch good players and don't just emulate them, find out why they do what they do. Never be afraid to seek more knowledge. Ask, seek, knock, and it shall be given to you. Good luck, my fellow AZB'r.:thumbup:


Thanks a lot, after 7 yrs of playing, I'm currently readjusting my stroke. I read the book advance pro book by Bob Henning, he seems to have a lot of good tips.

Your tips are by far one of the best out there.

Got a few questions:

A lot of books and you have mentioned that the right foot should be aligned to the shot line, but I noticed that aligning the heel, big toe, middle of the foot has different effect on the stroke. Any ideas?

How do you unlearn your previous stroke?

How do you know that the right stroke you've been adjusting to is right for you?

Are you going to accept a new routine that is uncomfortable but PROBABLY right for you?

Currently for me, I'm on a trial and error stage, if it works for me then I'll try to do it again. If it doesn't work then I find new ways.I'm currently on a B level, but a low B, I know I am inconsistent because of my fundamentals.

Do all players go through this stage? I mean, it seems hard to have a good stroke, as I know, Efren changed his stroke when he was young, he started playing with his forearm sideways like Keith and Luat style.

Your posts have been helpful. Thank you very much.:)
 
follow through.....

Solartje said:
I would like to gather some opinions on what defines a good stroke.

There are several posts about: X has the nicest stroke, budy hall strokes the ball so perfectly. What exactly defines this?


I'll start with what I think are the top 5 characteristics that defines it, but im only a B player, and i'm looking for more things to look at when analysing a good stroke.

1/ consistency : In my opinion the most important thing. No matter how crooked your arm is, how bad your chicken wing is, if u can play each shot, at each speed with the exact same technique, you will make balls.

2/ I have underestimated the power of folow true for years. I can't find a real scientific explenation why it is so important, but it just is. Just to be sure, i personally try to over-folow true. almost till the bridge is close to the joint. it just helps to learn the muscles to folow true. It feels like an eraser for imperfections. Its hard to do a bad stroke if you folow true.

3/ slow acceleration ieven after the impact, rather then fast initial accelration and constant speed till and after impact. Also here i can't really explain why. I always thought as long as the speed is the same at impact the ball will react the same way, but it just isn't like that. It feels like the contact with the cb and the tip is longer when accelerating and that it has a positive influence.

4/ elbow drop on the folow true. I try to never have my elbow dropped, but since ive been dropping it on folow trues, i get double the power then if i wouldnt. Only explenation is that by lowering the elbow the tip goes up, so u put more spin on the cb, but when dropping the elbow it looks like the cb just continues to folow true alot faster after impact. The short time where the cb stats in place before traveling forward again is reduced with elbow dropping. The stroke on folow true with elbow drop seems to give more room for the griphand to smoothly move forward.

5/ short backstroke movement. People who use long bridge and who draw there backarm WAY behing there back, seem to have more trouble with long shots. A shorter stroke seems to give better results.

I think that follow through is important because you have to be able to know that the cue struck where you were aiming, it is much easier if you have a straight follow through to know where on the CB the tip struck than if you punch at the ball or swipe or pull your wrist or whatever.

Jaden
 
Solartje said:
I would like to gather some opinions on what defines a good stroke.
Solly,
Here's a brief summary of what I think constitutes a good stroke.

1. can hit the CB very close to the point intended consistantly.
2. can display a very straight piston like stroke at will.
3. can play all shots including firm shots with relative ease and smoothness. Hence a distinct lack of jerkiness.

Colin
 
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