Nice post, David. I have two comments about Efren's play:
1. Notice that he ended up just about where the 4 was in the first place after shooting it in the side. Adjusting the 4 to near the side opens up a world of position plays, but I think it was an unnecessary risk (for normal humans at least).
2. Another good reason not to move the 6 is that if you fall a little wrong on the 5 there are lots of positions from which you can play a natural lock-up safety on the 6-8.
This is not inly a lesson in playing position, it is also a lesson in excellent match commentary by the legend, Danny DiLiberto, along with my favorite commentator - Jerry Forsyth.
The following link is to a match between Gabe Owen and Efren Reyes - click the link and go to 41:35 of this match...
This rack has many problems, starting with the 6-8 cluster - but there are also several key shots in the rack. Danny D is quick to note that Efren needs to "fall on the 6" as opposed to trying to break it up. As you can see, the 6 ball has only one pocket (oppositie corner), and there really isn't a high percentage shot that will knock the 6 or the 8 out of there. This makes position from the 4 to the 5 critical, because Efren needs to get on that side of the 6 ball. Danny explains how you will become a better pool player if you learn how to play the 6 ball where it goes... and there is an excellent lesson wrapped up in that statement, and in the executuon of Efren Reyes while running this rack.
Efren shoots in the 1 ball and opts for a long shot on the 2 ball...
Efren keeps going back to look at the 6 and the 5, to see if he can make the 5 - and perhaps get on the 6 to pass into the same pocket - Danny once again says that Efren will have to get right on that 5 to "fall on" the 6 ball.
Efren then shoots the 2 into the corner and moves the 4 ball in front of the side pocket ...
From here it is unclear as to whether he is playing to break up the cluster, or if he has a way to pocket the 6 in the same corner (due to the view the commentator's have - the actual angles are unclear at times)...
Efren gets over the cue ball and stroes the 5 beautifully to come two rails to FALL ON the 6 ball - as advertised!!!
Absolute genius by Reyes - and a good call by Danny DiLiberto.
Efren ran out the match from here, and I believe that solving this puzzle was the key to it all.
This works better than trying to break up the cluster - hoping for pot luck position. By examining the pocket availability options for each ball (including cluster balls), you can plan EXACTLY where you need to get to in advance - and then work towards making it an accomplished fact.
I remember seeing this live on BCN two years ago. At the time, I thought Efren planned the run exactly how he executed it. However, viewing it a second time, I'm not too sure he meant to get on the 6 from the 5 the way he did.
After he shot the 4 in the side pocket, he seemed a bit disappointed in his resulting CB position. Forward to 43:50 of the video...you can see him pointing to a spot on the felt which is slightly longer than where the CB stopped rolling. Ball B in the diagram below represents where it seems Efren wanted the CB to rest.
...
So if he did intend to go for positioning at point B, what was he planning on doing next? I'm not sure, but I'm guessing he wanted to carom the 5 of the 6, such that 6 gets freed from the 8....
Of course it's hard to second-guess Efren, but another path would have been to play the cue ball off the cushion from the 5 to hit the eight ball.The advantage of using the cushion on this shot is that if you are a little out of line on the five ball, you can use more or less spin to change the angle off the rail.
Of course it's hard to second-guess Efren, but another path would have been to play the cue ball off the cushion from the 5 to hit the eight ball.The advantage of using the cushion on this shot is that if you are a little out of line on the five ball, you can use more or less spin to change the angle off the rail.
Knowing Efren's intelligence, maybe he saw all of those possibilities when he chose to come across the 5 instead of going behind it. If he came a bit short, then he can go one rail behind 6 the way he did. If he rolled a bit further, he could have either played the carom or follow into the cluster. If he rolled even further on the other side of the 5, then he could've went one rail and bumped the 8 away, as Bob just mentioned.
Just another example of not knowing exactly what goes on in Efren's brilliant mind.
Of course it's hard to second-guess Efren, but another path would have been to play the cue ball off the cushion from the 5 to hit the eight ball.The advantage of using the cushion on this shot is that if you are a little out of line on the five ball, you can use more or less spin to change the angle off the rail.
When I was thinking how I would play it, this was my play as well. While it is not an automatic for me, it is higher percentage for me then the shot Efren took to get to the 6.
lots more and not the drama $hit or endless questions about the same things but actual high level discussion about the correct patterns etc. this one was easy for me but I have been around along time, and there are plenty of patterns I dont see. And discussion about some racks when there are several ways to get out-hearing opinions on that too, a forum for players not beginners would be cool.
Its cool to help begginers thats the key to the future and I believe that all players should help and encourage lesser players to play more and help them become better players, its called giving back-something lacking in pool. I help people who dont play as good as me, I have a friend I give him the 5 and have been coaching he is a UCLA student, I got him beating all his friends now, he can see the improvment and Its fun for me to work with him.
When I was thinking how I would play it, this was my play as well. While it is not an automatic for me, it is higher percentage for me then the shot Efren took to get to the 6.
For me it looks much easier to get somewhere behind the 6 than to hit the 8. I realize that it doesn't much matter how you hit the 8 - almost any hit will work - but it's still a much smaller target than the whole area behind the 6. And if you happen to clip the 6 while gunning for the 8 you've probably screwed the pooch.
So if he did intend to go for positioning at point B, what was he planning on doing next? I'm not sure, but I'm guessing he wanted to carom the 5 of the 6, such that 6 gets freed from the 8.
If he actually misplayed the cue slightly, I think he may have been going for this. (I had to move your B ball a little bit to make this more plausible.)
I think this has a lot of advantages. The speed is a little easier to get perfect; even if you bump the 8 slightly, it doesn't change the shot much; you don't risk being on the wrong side of the six (i.e. if you come too short on Efren's shot, it becomes a little harder to hold the cue for 7.)
As with a lot of shots, I think you should do it as a progressive practice. Start with a much shorter version, with the object ball a diamond from the pocket and the cue ball a diamond from the object ball. Set a goal on where to send the cue ball. If you make the ball and meet the goal, make the shot slightly tougher. If you miss either one, make the shot easier for the next try. I think you will nearly always see immediate improvement when you practice this way, at least for shots that are marginal for you.
To land where he did after traveling that distance 3 rails was brilliant. I watched that match a while back on youtube and that rack stood out to me also. I'll confess I probably would have tried to break open the 6/8.
Nice post BlackJack. I am always trying to teach my teammates these kind of shot in league. Why break balls out if they have a pocket. A couple months ago I was playing my cousin (which is one of my teammates) a game of 8 ball. I was on the seven and as I was going down on my shot, he says "how are you going to break the 8 ball out." My response, just before I pulled the trigger was "I don't need to if I can get behind it". I am going to try my first posting of a cuetable...so bare with me if it does not show up.
Nice post BlackJack. I am always trying to teach my teammates these kind of shot in league. Why break balls out if they have a pocket. A couple months ago I was playing my cousin (which is one of my teammates) a game of 8 ball. I was on the seven and as I was going down on my shot, he says "how are you going to break the 8 ball out." My response, just before I pulled the trigger was "I don't need to if I can get behind it". I am going to try my first posting of a cuetable...so bare with me if it does not show up.
To land where he did after traveling that distance 3 rails was brilliant. I watched that match a while back on youtube and that rack stood out to me also. I'll confess I probably would have tried to break open the 6/8.
rom there, I would have the opportunity to break it up like this. Shooting the 4 and contact the 8-6. You really can't judge what the cue ball is going to do, but it was an option, and I think that might have been why Efren moved the 4 over to the side pocket. Who knows?
I really think that he shot the 4 wrong, or in a way that he didn't intend to. I'm just going by body language. I think he just dealt with what he was left with on the 5. It worked out for him, and I guess only Efren knows what he was trying to do.
I really think that he shot the 4 wrong, or in a way that he didn't intend to. I'm just going by body language. I think he just dealt with what he was left with on the 5. It worked out for him, and I guess only Efren knows what he was trying to do.
That's the impression I got as well. The man is so good at getting out, it's easy to just assume he always puts his cueball exactly where he wants it. What seems more likely in this case, however, is that his tremendous ability allowed him to make a less-than-ideal situation appear routine. The speed control required to spin two rails behind the 5, while obviously not too taxing for one of his caliber, is a bit touchy, and I'm guessing he would've preferred to roll a bit further for the 4 so he could just float the cb under the 8. As you said, though, only Efren knows for sure.
On some screens (but apparently not all) there's a "Wei" button at the top. If so, just highlight the link and click that button and it will automatically bracket the highlighted text with the Wei tags.
Here's how it turns out when I do it to your link:
Once you know what the "Wei tags" look like you can just type them yourself at the beginning and end of the link (for screens where the Wei button doesn't appear), but I can't show them to you here because if I type them they'll just be turned into an empty pool table diagram.
That's the impression I got as well. The man is so good at getting out, it's easy to just assume he always puts his cueball exactly where he wants it. What seems more likely in this case, however, is that his tremendous ability allowed him to make a less-than-ideal situation appear routine. The speed control required to spin two rails behind the 5, while obviously not too taxing for one of his caliber, is a bit touchy, and I'm guessing he would've preferred to roll a bit further for the 4 so he could just float the cb under the 8. As you said, though, only Efren knows for sure.
What separates Efren from the rest of the world is that his "pool mind" operates at another level than most people. I pointed out the carom into the 8-6 because I believe that Efren's mind operates on that level - and it must have surely crossed his mind in a matter of seconds, where as the rest of us would need to stare at it for a few days to see all of the options.
What separates Efren from the rest of the world is that his "pool mind" operates at another level than most people. I pointed out the carom into the 8-6 because I believe that Efren's mind operates on that level - and it must have surely crossed his mind in a matter of seconds, where as the rest of us would need to stare at it for a few days to see all of the options.
For sure, which brings to mind all of the times I've seen Efren nudge other balls during a runout. Sometimes those little bumps can transform a difficult layout into a simple one. And it's not necessarily that he plays shape to allow for the bump, although I'm sure he does a good percentage of the time. The important thing, as you noted, is that he is always thinking on that level, on every shot, and has a tendency to take full advantage when these opportunities arise. It is really remarkable, and we are lucky to be experiencing the Efren era firsthand, imo.
