A long comment on "aiming systems" ...

What's a duffer? If that means an average player then that's what I am.

I offered you the stone cold nuts to get me off AZB for good. But you dogged it because you can't understand any of the conversation. You are not a person who has the experience to even understand either side of the conversation.

So I will offer it to you again, if I don't put up an uncut video of me running five racks by the end of next week I will leave AZB forever. If I do then you leave. (of course you can come back as Poosharkdave or something but then you'd at least have to leave me alone so as not to out yourself.)

Bet?
No bet. Your proposal to have a week to run with unlimited attempts just five racks starting with ball-in-hand is not an offer anyone would take seriously.

For your convenience, here's Webster's definition of a duffer:
Definition of DUFFER
1
a : a peddler especially of cheap flashy articles b : something counterfeit or worthless
2
: an incompetent, ineffectual, or clumsy person; especially : a mediocre golfer
3
Australian : a cattle rustler
 
"I was probably the most skeptical student that ever attended the National Billiard Academy. I am a semi-professional 9 ball player and my 8 ball team has been in the top 4 of the masters division in Vegas (VNEA) 3 out of the past 4 years. So, I am not a newbie. I want to let you know that spending 3 days with Tom and his team has changed my game forever - the biggest benefit to me were the aiming systems, which I won't go into here. I have been working with one of these systems for 2 weeks since returning and I am making more balls with ease than I ever imagined possible. As a result, my speed control has improved as I am not concerned with pocketing balls.

In summary, the best money I have ever spent on pool!"


Gerry Williams, semi-professional player, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, November 2011



http://www.poolclinics.com/playercomments.html

Tom Simpson, an EXCELLENT instructor and great person is smart enough to not spend his time on here and spends it teaching instead.

I should follow his lead.

Nothing like a short 9 page testimonial, to get my juices flowing in eager anticipation over the next infallable 'aiming system'.

How do you and JoeyA, and Spider, ever miss a stinking ball...Its simply amazing...I am really compressed..:thumbup:

Thanks again John...:p

PS..Who are these SEMI-pro's, who have so mastered the game ? I MUST seek them out... Money is no object.... Please PM me
contact info..and dates when they might be available, for one on one instruction...Thx DM
 
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No bet. Your proposal to have a week to run with unlimited attempts just five racks starting with ball-in-hand is not an offer anyone would take seriously.

For your convenience, here's Webster's definition of a duffer:
Definition of DUFFER
1
a : a peddler especially of cheap flashy articles b : something counterfeit or worthless
2
: an incompetent, ineffectual, or clumsy person; especially : a mediocre golfer
3
Australian : a cattle rustler

Well then I will give you the same offer if it's so easy. You have a week to post a video of yourself running five racks of nine ball.

Do that and I am gone from AZB forever.

I don't think I fit any of the definitions you posted. Well I did try to steal an Australian steak once so maybe the third one.

So again if it's so easy then you do it. See what I think is that you like having me around because you are sexually attracted to me. I think that you would NEVER do anything to see me go away and if I were gone you would be heartbroken.

But in case I am wrong I will be waiting on your video. If you can't do it then many you have a friend who will. My only caveat is that whoever does it must say that they are PoolSharkAllen on AZB.
 
Nothing like a short 9 page testimonial, to get my juices flowing in eager anticipation over the next infallable 'aiming system'.

How do you guys ever miss a ball...Its simply amazing..:thumbup:

Thanks again John...:p

I wonder the same thing.
 
Seriously???? If you have to ask, you aren't smart enough to understand the answer anyways.

Yes, of course, seriously. Demonstration of proof is the very basis of our western secular civilisation. Otherwise, you have people running their lives, and, by extension, the lives of others, based on nothing more than rumour, hearsay, speculation and superstition. And what a ghastly way to live your life that would be, Neil! (oh yeah, :wink:)
 
Otherwise, you have people running their lives, and, by extension, the lives of others, based on nothing more than rumour, hearsay, speculation and superstition.

Do you really mean to imply that aiming system advocates by extension run the lives of others?

Are the voices of aiming system advocates so strong that they influence weak minded non-believers to take up aiming systems?
 
Do you really mean to imply that aiming system advocates by extension run the lives of others?

Are the voices of aiming system advocates so strong that they influence weak minded non-believers to take up aiming systems?

I can't decide whether that's a good question or a specious line of reasoning...

But whatever. We live in a free society and people are free to make up their own mind on what to spend their money on. Talking of which, do any of those selling their DVDs offer a full refund in the event it doesn't help the purchaser? It might be a decent USP for them, and good protection for the dubious.
 
So I will offer it to you again, if I don't put up an uncut video of me running five racks by the end of next week I will leave AZB forever. If I do then you leave. (of course you can come back as Poosharkdave or something but then you'd at least have to leave me alone so as not to out yourself.)

Bet?

To be fair, that's one hell of an offer. I see PSDs earlier conditions as being valid and well intentioned, but the point here is to get a flavour of how an aiming systemer plays, as opposed to setting a decent challenge.
 
All this mind-numbing talk of aiming systems is utterly pointless for the vast majority of players, because these players (myself included) still have a long, long way to go in learning to hit the cue ball accurately. Aim perfectly all you want, use whatever system you want. The vast, vast majority of balls are being missed because of improper cuing. Period. Position is also messed up because of improper cuing (also speed control). Not saying there isn't any aiming error, but no aiming system is going to help when a player hasn't mastered their cuing skills. Speaking of speed control, why not a system for getting the right speed control!!! See what I mean? Some things are just feel and must be learned through experience and interaction with the game.


Shane doesn't make those balls because he has some special aiming system. He makes them because he has an excellent stroke. A world class stroke. Incredible focus and concentration. Rock solid fundamentals. Shane can teach you what he uses to help him see a tough shot here and there, but it doesn't matter - because you don't stroke the ball like Shane does. To prove this point, use lasers as a training tool. I'm serious. Use lasers (such as those used in construction) to literally paint lines down the table and illuminate exact contact points. Have several players shoot. They still won't make the ball every time. WHY WHY WHY? Cuing error. Bad fundamentals. Or inconsistency. Even with the entire visual part of the equation removed, with the aiming done for them, the shots are still not made with perfection and consistency.

There are several drills that can be done too. Take two object balls, Put them on the foot string. Separate them evenly apart from each other 1.25 ball width apart. Take the cueball, put it on the head string. Now shoot it between those balls without contacting either one. Better yet, get it to rebound of the foot rail and come back through without contacting either one. Get my point? The aiming is already done. There's no mystery as to where the ball needs to go, or where to sight. Use middle ball. Put a tiny object on the cushion itself as point of aim if need be.


What is it with pool players? They might be worse than golfers! Everyone wants the easy way out. You cannot, repeat, cannot BUY skill. There is no cheap, fast or easy way to master the game.
There are so many excuses, crutches and devices of mental avoidance in pool. The worst of which is aiming systems, followed closely by cue selection. Sorry people, there's no getting around it. There's no secret. All it is, is mastery of the fundamentals.


Do you realize that the short instructional section they used to print in the BCA rule book, if followed to perfection and executed consistently - would result in high level play? It's all there. How to hold the cue, how to line up. Bridges to use. What top, bottom and english does.


Good grief people, the game basically amounts to hitting one ball, to strike another to send it to a pocket! How complex can the interaction between two spheres be? It's not as complex as some make it to be. And people here are creating charts, graphs, schematics, using trigonometry. Ridiculous. Again, fundamentals applied. For everyone of you aiming system junkies, there's at least 10,000 players out there with a low IQ who will beat you silly in a race to 10. Do you think they are applying any of this nonsense that is discussed in these aiming system threads on every shot? If you think so, you're foolish. Perhaps you should get out more and interact with some of these players sometime.


It's just more secret weapon syndrome. If you have the right tools or knowledge, you will prevail. Wrong. These are excuses and crutches for the horrific and sad truths:


Truth #1: Most people will never possess the physical ability to play at the pro level. Reminds me of all the clowns that say the game is 90% mental. BS!!!! The physical component (hand eye coordination etcetera) is very underrated in pool.



Like it or not, what makes for a good player is a person who can work hard at improving their game. There's no easy way out. No cue will make you play better. No knowledge of a system will get you there alone. So why be so obsessed with aiming systems? It would be like being obsessed with the rules of the game thinking that will make you better.


Look, if knowledge could do it - you'd be able to read a book, then go to the table and run out a rack the first time you pick up a cue. Most people are capable of obtaining more than enough knowledge of the game, how it is played, what makes for a good stroke and good fundamentals. But do they practice what they preach? Do these players do what they know? They don't! If they did, they'd be great. But they are not.


You have to train your mind & body to execute the knowledge that you already possess. That comes with years of practice and working on the game.

.

Grilled Cheese, i am sorry to say you are trapped in old fashion pool knowledge that pros and hustlers want you to believe in so they get your Grilled Cheese, or you are like me stubborned and do not want to learn the game from a pro or instructor and want to figure it out yourself. i was for nearly 30 years thinking exactly what you are thinking, never was consistent with my shots. Dude you have not gotten to a level to know that pool is really complex game and it is mind game. Thank GOD i unlocked the secret, otherwise i would have spent another 30 years playing and practicing wrong no it is not aiming system. I improved at least 30 to 40% in one month and i was considered an A player then.
All i highlighted in RED are your statements that i either disagree with or you are contradicting other statements in your post sorry.
 
To be fair, that's one hell of an offer. I see PSDs earlier conditions as being valid and well intentioned, but the point here is to get a flavour of how an aiming systemer plays, as opposed to setting a decent challenge.

If you want a flavor then go to YouTube and search for Stevie Moore.

When you are done with him go look at Darren Appleton.
 
Actually, I've found them to be the most spiteful, nasty and vindictive people around. They are lovely on their terms only.

The same can be said of your side. In fact I would even go so far as to call some of them criminal with the way they openly defame some of us.
 
If you want a flavor then go to YouTube and search for Stevie Moore.

When you are done with him go look at Darren Appleton.

I don't know who Stevie Moore is, but I do know Appleton. I believe he was a decent enough player before his introduction to aiming systems.
 
Instructing/coaching, I rarely get to teach anyone how to aim anymore. Believe me, I know how to teach them, and will occasionally use e.g. "Ghost Ball" when it serves an explanation (in particular showing something more elaborate than how to shoot an object ball into a pocket). But there are fewer and fewer new/young players, pool in this country at least is suffering from overageing.

As a result, I'm almost exclusively confronted with more or less experienced (some championship calibre) students. Players, in short, who know where to hit the ball, but occasionally don't.

Players like myself then. Ever noticed that the more experienced one gets, the more rarely one misses by more than a margin that no longer goes beyond e.g. the difference CIT (= collision-induced throw), let alone a bad contact (AmE "skid", BrE "kick") between dirty/sticky balls makes? In other words, we're talking tiny little differences that, quite honestly, at my age, become increasingly hard to see (tell), let alone compensate for. Seems like in the long run (= even more so now than when I was young and eagle-eyed), it all becomes a matter of feel.

What I always knew to be the superior "system". There's no real substitute for the feel developed through practice (although admittedly, it'll come more easily to some of us than others).

My experience teaching people, by the way, is that most people miss because they didn't hit (the cue ball primarily, the object ball secondarily) where they intended to, and not because they aim off target. It's a matter of being honest with oneself: it's not about counting how often one misses, but how often one couldn't pull the trigger because there was no way of making sure that the intended aimed-at spot is indeed the right one. In the final analysis, those are the only shots that call for a "system". All others merely call for making a decision, stick to it, and execute.

And maybe (perhaps always): try and get a feel for it…

My two cents worth…

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti
 
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My experience teaching people, by the way, is that most people miss because they didn't hit (the cue ball primarily, the object ball secondarily) where they intended to, and not because they aim off target. It's a matter of being honest with oneself: it's not about counting how often one misses, but how often one couldn't pull the trigger because there was no way of making sure that the intended aimed-at spot is indeed the right one. In the final analysis, those are the only shots that call for a "system". All others merely call for making a decision, stick to it, and execute.

Essentially, it all boils down to this: if your stroke is flawless, concentrate on your aim. If your aim is flawless, concentrate on your stroke.

Everyone agreed? Good.
 
No need to apologize. You make the point clearly that even an unequivocal endorsement from Mosconi would not be enough for you. So obviously ant lesser player has no possible way to prove the value and validity of the aiming system to you.

Or perhaps you can explain the "big difference" to me? I will happily apologize if your explanation is convincing.



www.jbcases.com


The big difference is that I was specifically referring to Pro1 as described on that DVD -- not all aiming systems.

As I said at the time (and others also said -- some even asking for a refund, which was refused) I felt that the information on the DVD was incomplete and, as presented, the system could not be deployed.

Lou Figueroa
 
It's a chicken/ egg dynamic Roger. Yes the zealotry is over the top but so is the Inquistion-style tactics employed by the other side.

If you had a subforum dedicated to aiming and about five key opponents stayed out then I,promise the threads would be short and respectful and there wouldn't be much traffic.

But the way it has been ALLOWED to develop on here has caused both sides to go on tilt.


www.jbcases.com


John, really? The aiming system advocates must have at least a half dozen threads going on right now. Everything from Hal Houle to the anniversary of Pro1, and on and on.

Here, finally, is one thread where the opposing view is being aired out and all the kool-aid drinkers are here with their usual chants and drum banging. The only guys on tilt are you and the usual suspects.

Lou Figueroa
 
No bet. Your proposal to have a week to run with unlimited attempts just five racks starting with ball-in-hand is not an offer anyone would take seriously.

For your convenience, here's Webster's definition of a duffer:
Definition of DUFFER
1
a : a peddler especially of cheap flashy articles b : something counterfeit or worthless
2
: an incompetent, ineffectual, or clumsy person; especially : a mediocre golfer
3
Australian : a cattle rustler


John is rustling Chinese cattle?

Lou Figueroa
 
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