A long comment on "aiming systems" ...

[JoeyA]

Instructing/coaching, I rarely get to teach anyone how to aim anymore. Believe me, I know how to teach them, and will occasionally use e.g. "Ghost Ball" when it serves an explanation (in particular showing something more elaborate than how to shoot an object ball into a pocket). But there are fewer and fewer new/young players, pool in this country at least is suffering from overageing.

As a result, I'm almost exclusively confronted with more or less experienced (some championship calibre) students. Players, in short, who know where to hit the ball, but occasionally don't.

Players like myself then. Ever noticed that the more experienced one gets, the more rarely one misses by more than a margin that no longer goes beyond e.g. the difference CIT (= collision-induced throw), let alone a bad contact (AmE "skid", BrE "kick") dirty/sticky makes? In other words, we're talking tiny little differences that, quite honestly, at my age, become increasingly hard to see (tell), let alone compensate for. Seems like in the long run (= even more so now than when I was young and eagle-eyed), it all becomes a matter of feel.

What I always knew to be the superior "system". There's no real substitute for the feel developed through practice (although admittedly, it'll come more easily to some of us than others).

My experience teaching people, by the way, is that most people miss because they didn't hit (the cue ball primarily, the object ball secondarily) where they intended to, and not because they aim off target. It's a matter of being honest with oneself: it's not about counting how often one misses, but how often one couldn't pull the trigger because there was no way of making sure that the intended aimed-at spot is indeed the right one. In the final analysis, those are the only shots that call for a "system". All others merely call for making a decision, stick to it, and execute.

And maybe (perhaps always): try and get a feel for it…

My two cents worth…

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

I like your post David. You made your point quite well with civility and clarity. I don't agree completely with it but I appreciate your insight from your perspective.

I do agree that most shots are missed because one doesn't hit the cue ball where they intended, as they intended or that they didn't hit the object ball as they intended, where they intended.

I've seen many students who for whatever reason have trouble "seeing" certain shots correctly. I believe that the aiming systems of today have become excellent teaching tools that far surpass what the ghost ball principle illustrates or teaches. The ghost ball is quite simple and geometrically perfect but you can't see it and can only imagine it.

Most of the newer aiming systems incorporate a wider range of fundamentals that include complete body alignment, body movements and especially eye positions that enable the player to get into a better position to have a chance to make the ball, if they hit the cue ball correctly and if they hit the object ball correctly. The newer aiming systems seem to focus on finite portions of the object ball and the cue ball and this seems to help some players to "see" the shot better.

I'm just curious though:

What is "overaging"?

Thanks!

 

[TheThaiger]

What is "overaging"?

He means the game's dying. Fast.

Fewer "aiming system" threads, more "let's get on with it and make pool more attractive to the younger generation" threads, please.

 

[champ2107]

........................................

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

John is rustling Chinese cattle?

Lou Figueroa

Probably. By his own admission, he "did try to steal an Australian steak once."

Do you think I should accept John's bet? I'm thinking I'll accept the bet if he runs the five racks stark naked. :shocked2: :yikes:

 

[JoeyA]

He means the game's dying. Fast.

Fewer "aiming system" threads, more "let's get on with it and make pool more attractive to the younger generation" threads, please.

On one hand I appreciate your input, but on the other hand I would have appreciated David's reply far more.

Hopefully David will be able to reply in time.

I doubt that aiming threads are what's keeping the younger generation away from pool. Lol

 

[dr_dave]

Most of the newer aiming systems incorporate a wider range of fundamentals that include complete body alignment, body movements and especially eye positions that enable the player to get into a better position to have a chance to make the ball

Good point Joey. This is definitely one of the primary benefits of some of the recent aiming system variations. They seem to wrap pre-shot routine, eye/head/body alignment, sighting, and aim approximation into a single package, and they help many people have better focus and consistency with all of these important "fundamentals." That alone can foster improvement.

Regards,
Dave

 

[JoeyA]

The big difference is that I was specifically referring to Pro1 as described on that DVD -- not all aiming systems.

As I said at the time (and others also said -- some even asking for a refund, which was refused) I felt that the information on the DVD was incomplete and, as presented, the system could not be deployed.

Lou Figueroa

Lou, you've poo-pooed anything to do with aiming systems for as long as I have known you.

Quit your spinning. You've ridiculed anyone who uses todays aiming systems. You've ridiculed anyone who teaches todays aiming systems.

Just man up and admit that. Quite your crawfishing. ;-)

 

[acousticsguru]

Essentially, it all boils down to this: if your stroke is flawless, concentrate on your aim. If your aim is flawless, concentrate on your stroke.

Perhaps, although you make it sound more difficult than it is, because in either case, you keep referring to very complex entities (= literally as well as of philosophical proportions, that is) – it's not as if one concentrated on something (= one thing) doing either. It's usually sufficient for the individual to figure out the one aspect of their pre-shot routine that works for them like the glue that keeps it all together (= an object of concentration of limited proportion). Or their instructor, if they can't do it on their own.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[lfigueroa]

Probably. By his own admission, he "did try to steal an Australian steak once."

Do you think I should accept John's bet? I'm thinking I'll accept the bet if he runs the five racks stark naked. :shocked2: :yikes:

John nekked on youtube shooting pool? ack! ack!

Only a little more seriously, I don't think accepting John's bet would be wise.

OTOH, if you do decide to accept I would recommend the following stipulations: show two balls in the pocket so everyone can see that they are reasonably tight; try and run the five racks; BUT before every shot he must turn to the camera and explain how is going to use CTE on the next shot, what pivot he's going to use, and how he decided on it. If subsequently he doesn't pivot as promised he loses the bet.

Lou Figueroa

 

[acousticsguru]

I'm just curious though:

What is "overaging"?

Our Seniors league has become so strong in both number of participants and level of play that some feel it should be incorporated in the Men's (= that's apparently dwindling in comparison). And although the level of play among the pupils and juniors is fine, there are too few of them. No use staging National Championship for girls anymore, for example. There aren't any qualifying events for women anymore to begin with. A deplorable state the sport is in…

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[champ2107]

........................................

 

[TheThaiger]

Perhaps, although you make it sound more difficult than it is, because in either case, you're keep referring to very complex entities (= literally as well as of philosophical proportions, that is) – it's not as if one concentrated on something (= one thing) doing either. It's usually sufficient for the individual to figure out the one aspect of their pre-shot routine it is that works for them like the glue that keeps it all together (= an object of concentration of limited proportion). Or their instructor, if they can't do it on their own.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

Actually, what I should have said was 'don't even think about aim until your stroke is perfect'.

Stroke before aim, every time.

 

[acousticsguru]

I like your post David. You made your point quite well with civility and clarity. I don't agree completely with it but I appreciate your insight from your perspective.

I do agree that most shots are missed because one doesn't hit the cue ball where they intended, as they intended or that they didn't hit the object ball as they intended, where they intended.

I've seen many students who for whatever reason have trouble "seeing" certain shots correctly. I believe that the aiming systems of today have become excellent teaching tools that far surpass what the ghost ball principle illustrates or teaches. The ghost ball is quite simple and geometrically perfect but you can't see it and can only imagine it.

Most of the newer aiming systems incorporate a wider range of fundamentals that include complete body alignment, body movements and especially eye positions that enable the player to get into a better position to have a chance to make the ball, if they hit the cue ball correctly and if they hit the object ball correctly. The newer aiming systems seem to focus on finite portions of the object ball and the cue ball and this seems to help some players to "see" the shot better.

I'm just curious though:

What is "overaging"?

Thanks!

Thank you! Note I didn't say there aren't any good aiming systems to teach e.g. beginners (more power to you if you can find any willing to put their energy, of all sports, into pool!), or that they aren't a great tool to explain e.g. the physics of the game (CIT demonstrated using the "Ghost Ball" method is an obvious example). What I said is that experienced players aren't usually missing due to aiming off centre. They may believe they are, but on average, they're not. They're merely guilty of the usual (= a long list per se: hitting the cue ball off-center, moving their head, shoulder or back during, getting up from, or letting up on the shot etc. & etc.). And they don't miss by more than that either, that is, once they figure out their aim is perfect, their confidence in what they're doing is going to be at least partially restored.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[TheThaiger]

.

I doubt that aiming threads are what's keeping the younger generation away from pool. Lol

I dare say they're not helping!

 

[JC]

Well then I will give you the same offer if it's so easy. You have a week to post a video of yourself running five racks of nine ball.

Do that and I am gone from AZB forever.

I don't think I fit any of the definitions you posted. Well I did try to steal an Australian steak once so maybe the third one.

So again if it's so easy then you do it. See what I think is that you like having me around because you are sexually attracted to me. I think that you would NEVER do anything to see me go away and if I were gone you would be heartbroken.

But in case I am wrong I will be waiting on your video. If you can't do it then many you have a friend who will. My only caveat is that whoever does it must say that they are PoolSharkAllen on AZB.

I will do it today John. Are we on?

 

[peteypooldude]

Good point Joey. This is definitely one of the primary benefits of some of the recent aiming system variations. They seem to wrap pre-shot routine, eye/head/body alignment, sighting, and aim approximation into a single package, and they help many people have better focus and consistency with all of these important "fundamentals." That alone can foster improvement.

Regards,
Dave

You are right, This is exactly what I get from the method I use.
I didnt click the links but it is a good summarization

 

[naji]

Essentially, it all boils down to this: if your stroke is flawless, concentrate on your aim. If your aim is flawless, concentrate on your stroke.

Everyone agreed? Good.

It is near impossible to make a ball if you go down on it with wrong aim , i do not care what stroke you have. similarly you will not be consistent in making balls if you do not know what the CB or Cue are doing. Take for example spot shot, with extreme bottom right on CB, and hit a little soft with nice smooth draw stroke, if you go down on the shot aiming at center of pocket you might make it once out of 5 shots, i am sure we can start an entire new post on the possibilities of what goes on with that shot and reasons that it could be missed, and what it take to make it all the time

 

[JoeyA]

Our Seniors league has become so strong in both number of participants and level of play that some feel it should be incorporated in the Men's (= that's apparently dwindling in comparison). And although the level of play among the pupils and juniors is fine, there are too few of them. No use staging National Championship for girls anymore, for example. There aren't any qualifying events for women anymore to begin with. A deplorable state the sport is in…

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

That makes sense.

Please let us know when you discover the secret to increasing the numbers of pupils, juniors and girls.

 

[cookie man]

Good point Joey. This is definitely one of the primary benefits of some of the recent aiming system variations. They seem to wrap pre-shot routine, eye/head/body alignment, sighting, and aim approximation into a single package, and they help many people have better focus and consistency with all of these important "fundamentals." That alone can foster improvement.

Regards,
Dave

But yet you stop short of saying they work as advertised , for example, cte is a center pocket system and when done properly the ob goes center pocket.

 

[cookie man]

great post Joey! soon we will be able to discuss these systems individually and find out what is a system for pocketing a ball (spiderwebcomm) and a complete aiming system (champ2107) but what do i know. now i will go straight to the top and everything in between will crumble and we will get the truth about all this.

So when will the secret be revealed?