A look at the break shot.

jhanso18

jhanso18

Broken Lock
Silver Member
So we all know that Mike D.'s argument was that Shane crushed him with the break. We all know that not entirely true but it was a large portion of it. That being said lets take a look at the other top pros around the world, Busty, Earl, Alex, Johny, etc. All these guys have big breaks, but at the same time, they can all flat out play!

Thinking about the above, how important is the break at a mere mortal's level of play? I can break and run once in a while playing 8 ball, fairly often playing nine and 10 ball. When I have time to consistently practice, I try to practice my break at least twice a week for 30-60 minutes, more if I can. I would say I definitely have a stronger break than 90% of the people I play. Even guys that pound me to death, can't break nearly as well as I can.

So with the second thing taken into consideration, how much should I be practicing my break. Should I be just trying to maintain the quality of my break, or should i be trying to improve that just like the rest of my game? How much should any of us be trying to put into our break? I certainly can't take advantage of it nearly as much as advantage as a better player could. I don't need a big break for my skill set, being as I can't consistently get out on that big break.


I'd like to hear from different level players what infasis they put on their break. How much they practice it, if they find it to be more or less important, etc.

I know one thing, it seems like every guy Shane plays seems to wish they'd have put more into their break...


Best,


Justin
 
I practice my break as often as possible. I don't make it the highlight of my practice routine, though.

Efren never had a monster break and he got out just fine.
The break is essential, but it's not why Dechaine lost.
 
I can't wait for the day when we can hear NFL players complain that the opposing team's kicker spends more time kicking to the corners. How about MLS players unfairly spending more time on their throws, corner kicks or penalty kicks? What about those pitchers that spend time throwing the ball? :eek:

If somebody's whooping on people because of something, others should take note instead of complaining about it. There's tons of information out there on 9b and 10b breaks, but some people just don't want to do the work. "I shoot awesome good. Why should I learn how to break?"

Just look at basketball.. the ones that work hard are most often the ones with longer careers and more improvement. Kobe didn't just sit on his arse and say, "Well, I can shoot better than most pros." No, he studied tape after tape of what made the greats great. It's funny that after all these years, people still expect to get good results without the effort.
 
I just finished a two hour set, practicing nothing but my break. I have a decent break from the side rail, but it's not the best location for 8- or 10-ball.

I decided that, uncomfortable as it is, I really need to develop a near-head spot break. In league, my side break is "good enough" to give me a chance at a run, but I know it could be better. So far this season, I've run out 20% of my 8-ball breaks. Probably half of the rest, I came up dry. So, in an effort to increase my B&R's, I know I have to do this.

I'm basically starting from scratch with this center break. Since I am starting with a clean slate, I decided to model my break on Shane's break. I found several videos with different viewing angles of his break and actually filmed the screen with my slow motion camera so I could break it down into steps. I watched the videos over and over, and took down about three pages of written notes.

I used my video camera to record all of my breaks in this session, so I can review them during the session and make on-the-fly adjustments, as well as track my overall progress.

I miscued a lot at first, and/or hit the head ball poorly at first, but I worked through it and I'm making progress. I know i have a long way to go before I'm controlling the cue ball the way I want to, but at least I'm making balls on most breaks, and I was surprised to learn that I could easily average 22 mph with this style. I know that accuracy of the hit on the head ball is absolutely the most important factor (with tip positioning a close second), so I'm going to accept the speed as my current default, and attempt to improve my accuracy. If I'm not seeing progress, I'll back off the speed a bit and try to work my way back up to it.

I'll probably put in about 6-8 hours per week, for several weeks on this before I even try it in league/tournaments. I don't want to take anyone's head off. :) Just for perspective, I average about 15-20 hours per week of table time.

As it relates to your situation, let me say this: I was happy with my side break as an all-purpose break for a long time, and became complacent. While the rest of my game improved, my break stayed the same. Now I find myself in a position of being capable of running out some racks, but my break is so far behind, I don't often get the chance to do so. It's going to take a year or more for my break to catch up. I just think about all those missed opportunities...

Don't quit practicing everything else, but I would strongly encourage you to continue working on your break. Once you reach the level where you can run out semi-consistently, you'll be sorry if your break has fallen behind.

I hope this helps! Best of luck!!!

-Blake
 
To me, when we are all at the level that we could easily run out the table without missing any balls, the break is the most important thing, it decides the game. The good break contributes a big advantage to the game and also boosts our game mental at the start of the game.

I spend 30 mins practicing the break only and always try to improve the break during other practices. The thing is I hate practicing the break only as it takes time to collect and rack balls up.

jhanso18 said:
I can break and run once in a while playing 8 ball, fairly often playing nine and 10 ball.
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conflicted

jhanso18 said:
So with the second thing taken into consideration, how much should I be practicing my break. Should I be just trying to maintain the quality of my break, or should i be trying to improve that just like the rest of my game? How much should any of us be trying to put into our break? I certainly can't take advantage of it nearly as much as advantage as a better player could. I don't need a big break for my skill set, being as I can't consistently get out on that big break.
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Anyways, maintain your break, improve your run-out skills.
 
The one thing I will say about the break, is that I don't understand the correlation between the power and the quality of someones break. I thought that Corey already proved that you don't have the smash the bejesus out of every rack to have a great break. Everyone who plays with me even semi-regularly, comments on how well I break the balls. I don't smash racks. I hit my 10 ball break between 70-80% power, pocket either or both of the balls behind the head ball, and play shape for the 1 in either the bottom right corner or the side pocket (depending upon the table).

I don't think you have to hit the break hard to be a good breaker. In fact, I think the opposite is true for most people. I think most people's breaks are inconsistent because they try to hit them too hard.

Harvey Penick was a legendary golf instructor. One of the greatest to ever live. He said that 85% was the perfect number. If you swing the club at 85%, your rhythm and timing will be perfect, and as a result, you most often will actually hit the ball further than you would swinging at 100% because you will strike the dead center of the clubface more consistently. He said that 85% also gives your body enough time to subconsciously correct on the downswing any flaws you may have on the backswing.

I firmly believe that same idea translates from golf to pool, especially on the break.
 
At the very highest levels, we know the break is huge. It means the other guy doesn't get to play. But that's only 1% of all the pool players out there. The rest of us are often going to blow the runout at some point, even if we make a ball every break.

IMO there's no point trying to reach a "top 1%" break if your runout skills aren't sufficient to close out.

Improving the runout skills will help you right now, but getting that extra breaking skill won't help you until you're much more advanced.

The equipment matters a lot too here. You can hit tremendously hard and square playing 9b, and I can hit like a little girl, but if I'm playing on perfect equipment and/or a magic rack, I'll be running more racks than you (assuming equal runout skill). No point killing yourself to do amazing breaks on bad equipment... when making a ball will be more or less a crapshoot.
 
Baxter said:
The one thing I will say about the break, is that I don't understand the correlation between the power and the quality of someones break. I thought that Corey already proved that you don't have the smash the bejesus out of every rack to have a great break. Everyone who plays with me even semi-regularly, comments on how well I break the balls. I don't smash racks. I hit my 10 ball break between 70-80% power, pocket either or both of the balls behind the head ball, and play shape for the 1 in either the bottom right corner or the side pocket (depending upon the table).

I don't think you have to hit the break hard to be a good breaker. In fact, I think the opposite is true for most people. I think most people's breaks are inconsistent because they try to hit them too hard.

Harvey Penick was a legendary golf instructor. One of the greatest to ever live. He said that 85% was the perfect number. If you swing the club at 85%, your rhythm and timing will be perfect, and as a result, you most often will actually hit the ball further than you would swinging at 100% because you will strike the dead center of the clubface more consistently. He said that 85% also gives your body enough time to subconsciously correct on the downswing any flaws you may have on the backswing.

I firmly believe that same idea translates from golf to pool, especially on the break.
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Do you have any vids of you breaking?
 
n0th1ng said:
Do you have any vids of you breaking?
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Not anything recent. My friend and I recorded a match a little over a year ago, but it's not online anywhere and I can't remember what we played. It might have been 9 ball.
 
CreeDo said:
At the very highest levels, we know the break is huge. It means the other guy doesn't get to play. But that's only 1% of all the pool players out there. The rest of us are often going to blow the runout at some point, even if we make a ball every break.

IMO there's no point trying to reach a "top 1%" break if your runout skills aren't sufficient to close out.

Improving the runout skills will help you right now, but getting that extra breaking skill won't help you until you're much more advanced.

The equipment matters a lot too here. You can hit tremendously hard and square playing 9b, and I can hit like a little girl, but if I'm playing on perfect equipment and/or a magic rack, I'll be running more racks than you (assuming equal runout skill). No point killing yourself to do amazing breaks on bad equipment... when making a ball will be more or less a crapshoot.
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I agree. It doesn't really matter how well you break the rack if you can't run it out.
 
Having a good break will be the difference in many of your matches especially playing opponents your speed or under...

In many instances the sole variable in a match outcome will be who broke the balls better... Even if you cannot run out learning to control the table by choosing the proper balls in 8ball or playing early safeties in 9ball can stack the odds in your favor when you are playing someone equal in run out ability....

I'd continue to work on my break and likely add some serious defense into the equation as priority and continue to develop your run out ability at a steady pace......

The proper safe can take an impossible table and leave you with an easy run out many many times.....

Chris
 
Banks said:
"I shoot awesome good. Why should I learn how to break?"
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This quote really sums up a lot. In those other sports mentioned in this thread, divisions are very strictly defined, often by age (explicitly or implicitly). As such, you're trying to be the best player in each division.

Pool's greatest strength is often its greatest weakness: Everyone can play. Most American sports are more talent based than technique based. Pool is almost entirely technique based, and as such, there is a huge discrepancy between players that 'can play'. There are no height requirements, no 40 times, nobody checking your vertical jump or your bench press numbers. There is no combine for pool. We accept the young and old, the male and female, the short and tall.

As such, it is very hard for us to naturally divide players into sets, and therefore hard to have specifications on just how 'good enough' one has to be. It becomes more arbitrary based on the needs and time that the player has to devote. It may be his set of friends, or his league, maybe his city or region. Beyond a certain point, it takes an awful lot of time invested to make any small degree of difference between any two people. Without set expectations, it is hard to push that far to get that many benefits.

This is a very good question for these reasons. How much, at your level, does working on the break help you versus all of those other things you could be working on? At what point does going from an acceptable break to a great break offset learning to improve in other areas of the game?
 
Baxter said:
<snip>

I firmly believe that same idea translates from golf to pool, especially on the break.
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That idea is pretty translatable across mechanics in general. Pushing things to their limit has drawbacks, whether we're talking heat or friction or tensile strength or whatever. Most machines that aren't made to be run at their absolute are underspecified, and those that are pay for it with high maintenance.

We're just machines when you get right down to it. We don't perform at the outer limits any better than any other machine.

Certainly when we're talking the break, and we don't need to be specific with the 'soft break' or any other such considered variant, the importance of power has been declining in favor of accuracy. Some would argue equipment has played that role, some would argue that, at least empirically, players understand better the nature of collisions within the rack. Pool is, after all, a game whereby form is often simply copied from one successful player to the next.
 
I'm a C+/B- player. I never practice my break. There is no point to it. I do practice a lot, but my time is better spent becoming better at the many, many, many, other very important parts of this game.

One spot I routinely negotiate with opponents I gamble with is I give them "break and BIH", and they give me a bigger money ball than normal, or I give them a lesser money ball than normal if I'm spotting them. Unless I'm playing an A, or at minimum a B+ player, it makes no difference. They will miss, and I end up winning the game because of the money ball difference.

I also think on the pro level, the break is vastly overrated. Everyone and thier brother on these forums (to include the pros) will come on and say 9 ball is all about the break. Look at the DCC 9 ball money list. Look at the US Open 9 ball money list. None of the guys in the top 25 spots got "lucky" to get there based on their monster break. They all flat out play jam up.

I believe even at the pro level, what happens after the break is much more important than the break. I think an excellent example of this is Shane vs Mills on the TAR 9 ball match. Mills had a break performance that was the best the world ever saw, for something like 74 out of 75 racks that he broke. He had the same layout every break, and the wing ball was automatic. Yet, Shane still outplayed him after the break, and won the set.

Don't get me wrong... the break is definitly more important when you talk about A and above players, but it is not as important as everyone and their brother makes it out to be.

Those are my 2 cents:grin::grin:
 
If you are a top tier player then the break makes all the difference in the world. If you can't run 2 balls in a row then it makes no difference at all.
 
SpongebobFreak said:
Not trying to sound rude or start a huge debate but.....dechaine lost because he was way out of his leagues playing svb. Mike dechaine is an annoying nit. Everytime i see him play hes crying about the rack, which is a sharking method he uses. He plays at a low B speed at best. Not sure why so many have idolized him for so long. He couldnt beat shane, and im sure that you can count on one hand how many pro speed players he actually could beat in a long race. Now on to your question, the break is a very important aspect of the game. Producing a solid break will allow you an easy run out. I generally practice breaking for around an hour or so a week. Producing a nice solid serve and stopping whitey center table will allow a more consistant game to be played. Good luck and buy a magic rack, makes practicing the break much easier.
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Don't look for me to defend Mike about anything...but "low B speed"? Are you serious? This is the most foolish thing I've heard in a long time.

KMRUNOUT
 
DAVE_M said:
I practice my break as often as possible. I don't make it the highlight of my practice routine, though.

Efren never had a monster break and he got out just fine.
The break is essential, but it's not why Dechaine lost.
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Is Efren the best example to compare most players to? To compare most *pros* to? There is only one Efren. His capabilities have little to do with how mortals play the game.

KMRUNOUT
 
iusedtoberich said:
One spot I routinely negotiate with opponents I gamble with is I give them "break and BIH", and they give me a bigger money ball than normal, or I give them a lesser money ball than normal if I'm spotting them. Unless I'm playing an A, or at minimum a B+ player, it makes no difference. They will miss, and I end up winning the game because of the money ball difference.
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Wowwwww. Break + BIH is a HUGE spot. I'm only an A but I'd play anyone in the world with that spot.

If you can beat the ghost, you can win with break + BIH no matter how many money balls you give up. Break + BIH is just the ghost plus the ability to play safe. It's easier than the ghost.
 
KMRUNOUT said:
Don't look for me to defend Mike about anything...but "low B speed"? Are you serious? This is the most foolish thing I've heard in a long time.

KMRUNOUT
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Obviously Mike is not a low B player...but there were many, many moments in that match where he clocked a low B speed. There were multiple racks where his pattern play was all over the place, his CB speed was all over the place, and his composure was shaky at best. If someone had no idea who he was, and only tuned in for a random 5 minutes of him dogging a rack, I can see how they would think Mike's a B player.

Shane, on the other hand, appeared at no point to be anything other than the top echelon pro that he is.

-roger
 
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