ABP may be fixing games and tournaments

[JAM]

Ok, I'm gonna try and answer this one as objectively as posible. First of all any player in the world can become a member of the ABP. We welcome any skill level to be part of our organization. That said, If 4 players are in the final 4 spots. They are guaranteed 1st thru 4th prize money, right ? What they decide to do with THEIR prize money is their own buisiness and nobody elses. It does not mean that they are gonna play any less hard for the title and trophy than the next player ! I don't know a single Pro that would accept 2nd place in a Pro Event just because he was making the same amount of money as the Winner ! Everybody hates 2nd place ! Don't forget that the winner has to pay taxes on that 1st place prize money so technicly he is making way less than 2nd,3rd, and 4th ! Right ? LOL ! If you disagree than please let me know. I will give it another try.

What on earth are you doing awake at this hour?

I have to agree with Shawn here. Having a saver with a friend in the tournament does not mean there's funny business or hanky panky going on. Each player will still shoot their hardest to win.

Usually, savers are made between friends in a tournament that have to face each other in competition. It helps with expenses, and this is just a way of helping a fellow player. The percentage is usually 5 or 10 percent of the monies won.

Plus, if you do get knocked out of the event, at least you still got a horse in the race, and you end up rooting for that 5 or 10 percent that horse will win. Of course, you'd rather be playing in the tournament, but there can only be one winner.

I will say there was one player at the Joss Turning Stone event who had four savers. He was staked in the tournament. I think he ended up coming in second or third place, and by the time he and his stakehorse did the chop-chop, paid expenses and the savers, the player ended up pocketing nothing.

What was kind of ironic, for lack of a better word, was that one player he had a saver with, he paid him off, and then later that evening asked him if he could borrow some money. The player politely declined the bite.

Savers can also backfire on you if you make more than one.

 

[Shawn Putnam]

What on earth are you doing awake at this hour?

I have to agree with Shawn here. Having a saver with a friend in the tournament does not mean there's funny business or hanky panky going on. Each player will still shoot their hardest to win.

Usually, savers are made between friends in a tournament that have to face each other in competition. It helps with expenses, and this is just a way of helping a fellow player. The percentage is usually 5 or 10 percent of the monies won.

Plus, if you do get knocked out of the event, at least you still got a horse in the race, and you end up rooting for that 5 or 10 percent that horse will win. Of course, you'd rather be playing in the tournament, but there can only be one winner.

I will say there was one player at the Joss Turning Stone event who had four savers. He was staked in the tournament. I think he ended up coming in second or third place, and by the time he and his stakehorse did the chop-chop, paid expenses, the player ended up pocketing nothing.

What was kind of ironic, for lack of a better word, was that one player he had a saver with, he paid him off, and then later that evening asked him if he could borrow some money. The player politely declined the bite.

Savers can also backfire on you if you make more than one.

I can't sleep ! I need an Ambien !

 

[JAM]

I can't sleep ! I need an Ambien !

I'm in the same boat. I can't sleep more than 4, 5, or 6 hours a night, and it's broken sleep.

So I get up and work and read AzBilliards between jobs.

One way to get better sleep, be sure you have a good bed. We just got a Sleep Number. I'm a 35, and my partner is a 50.

Also, I gave up sodas a long time ago. I don't drink coffee after 12 noon either

Be careful of chocolate. I couldn't believe it when I ate some one night, and I could not get to sleep at all. What a nightmare!

Best remedy for sleep, drink milk before you hit the sack. Also watermelon is good for sleeping. It has some ingredient in it.

Sweet dreams! :thumbup:

 

[lfigueroa]

That is friggin absurd. A better show for our money? We want to watch pro's play what ends up being a exhibition at the end of a major event?

Seriously, use some common sense and think about this Shawn, do you want to watch Federer and Nadal in the finals of a major tournament like the French open after they have decided to chop the winnings and are in effect just screwing around? Do you want to watch Tiger Woods and Phil Mikkelson play those extra holes in a Masters playoff sudden death if they have decided to chop the winnings and are now not playing under the pressure that the money brings?

The trophies in pool are pretty near worthless, if you guys are not playing for the money, the prizes, you are playing for nothing and most of the fans of the sport don't want to watch you screwing around like that.

It is this kind of crap attitude that makes the tournaments less of a draw, it is this kind of crap that makes people tune out of this game, you pool players need to look more long term and realize you are screwing over the fans, the sport, and in the long run yourselves by shitting all over the game by doing crap like this.

You and the rest of the pros really need to get your head into different places on this. Do you know what would happen to Tiger, Federer, or anyone else if they did a saver in their sport? They would get fined, suspended, and very possibly banned for life from that sport. And the reason is that the sport is screwed by these types of actions, the actual purity of the competition is ruined.

You want to be a pro pool player, then play for the money, don't paly stupid chopping games and then try to act like playing an exhibition is somehow good for the game, you are screwing up the sport you are trying to make a living in and the chance of the sport actually gaining popularity.

What a great post. It sums up why there will probably never be major corporate sponsorship in pool.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

That is correct. 128 man field you should seed 32 players.
You space them as they should be #1 at the top of the bracket, #2 at the bottom, #3 at the bottom of top bracket,#4 at the top of bottom bracket and so on. If there are any byes, the top ranked players get them.
Know don't have a fit until I can explain ! LOL
Your top players are gona beat almost everybody anyways. So it's better for the ametuers not to have to draw them first round and get some table time in first before they have to play one of them !

Please don't try and sell me on why seeding pros should be no big deal for the amateurs when just a little further back in the thread you admitted it was a "benefit" and a privilege to be earn by paying your dues.

Lou Figueroa

 

[JAM]

What a great post. It sums up why there will probably never be major corporate sponsorship in pool.

Lou Figueroa

Or said another way, because there is no non-pool-related corporate sponsor in American professional pool, the players have to survive.

Again, at this stage of the game in the year 2011, how can anyone compare tennis and golf to pool?

You have so-called pro players competing in weekend events, local once-a-week tournaments, and regional tours. Why? It's because pool is what it is. It's a recreational game for leagues, social shooters, and amateurs at this time.

Though the professional players do still have some pride, they recognize that the money situation stinks. That's why the existing lot of American professional players is diminishing.

Don't worry, folks, because, by necessity, there may not be any more professional pool in America. I mean, even the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship is really only a Pro/Am event. We all know that.

You can forget about non-pool-related sponsorship getting involved with pocket billiards in the United States at this time. Heck, they're having a hard enough time keeping the stock market over 10,000. Do you think they're going to invest in pool?

Meanwhile, the pro players that do exist on the tournament trail are banned from some events because of their pro status or they have to give up a ridiculous handicap that Willie Mosconi himself couldn't win at.

Nobody is taking all the prize money and chopping it up. If this is what you think a "saver" is, then you're sorely mistaken.

 

[Nostroke]

I can't sleep ! I need an Ambien !

Ambien is an over the counter med in Hong Kong and a few other places and is widely available on the internet. If you use it every day you will be dependent on it as i currently am but for me, compared to other addictions, it's mild.

 

[JAM]

Ambien is an over the counter med in Hong Kong and a few other places and is widely available on the internet. If you use it every day you will be dependent on it as i currently am but for me, compared to other addictions, it's mild.

I have a friend, one I haven't hung out with in a long while and who reads this forum from time to time, who is addicted. He is prescribed Ambien, but his tolerance is not good anymore. He needs three and four times the dosage to affect him. Poor guy has ringing of the ears, and this is his only escape. He pays BIG BUCKS for Ambien on the Internet, because his prescription always runs out after a week.

Ambien is dangerously addictive. Actually, the best way to fall asleep every night soundly is exercise each and every day. It works. Unfortunately, I always find an excuse not to do it. :embarrassed2:

 

[lfigueroa]

LMAO, Are you serious ? You are compareing us to multi-millionaires that don't have to worry about money. you think that the US Open title means nothing to us when we get to the finals ? Well I feel you are just trying to get a reaction out of me so I can say without a doubt I will never respond to another post of yours ever again . I invite anybody who post on here to respond to this guy the way you think he should be treated ! I'm done with him !

He made some excellent points about the need for (and lack of) ethics in our sport at the pro level. Part of the problem is that *everyone* (and I do mean everyone) nowadays expects the pros to chop and save (and, to a lesser extent, dump, double dump, and triple dump) when it suits their financial needs. Doesn't matter if it involves the tournament payoff, the calcutta, bets with the rail, their stakehorse, or all of the above.

You want pool to go somewhere and the monies to increase for a decent living, but no one at the corporate level is ever going to buy into sponsoring a sport where that kind of behavior by the pros of the sport is the norm -- expected, accepted, and defended by guys of your stature

Lou Figueroa .

 

[gunzby]

I've never used ambien and there is a good reason for that. If you take it and don't go to sleep some people will have hallucinations like they have taken LSD. The only reason I know this is because I know of two people that this has happened to.

I've heard from others that lunesta works much better. I use particular medicinal herbs to go to sleep every now and then

 

[lfigueroa]

I have a friend, one I haven't hung out with in a long while and who reads this forum from time to time, who is addicted. He is prescribed Ambien, but his tolerance is not good anymore. He needs three and four times the dosage to affect him. Poor guy has ringing of the ears, and this is his only escape. He pays BIG BUCKS for Ambien on the Internet, because his prescription always runs out after a week.

Ambien is dangerously addictive. Actually, the best way to fall asleep every night soundly is exercise each and every day. It works. Unfortunately, I always find an excuse not to do it. :embarrassed2:

A contributing factor to your insomnia could be your computer. There is a study out that says the blue light from computer screens impacts your body clock resetting it to to make your body believe it's time to be awake. They are trying to develop a screen that goes from putting out blue light in the morning and gradually shifts to a yellow light in the evening for the space station guys.

Or sumpthin' like that.

Lou Figueroa

 

[JAM]

A contributing factor to your insomnia could be your computer. There is a study out that says the blue light from computer screens impacts your body clock resetting it to to make your body believe it's time to be awake. They are trying to develop a screen that goes from putting out blue light in the morning and gradually shifts to a yellow light in the evening for the space station guys.

Or sumpthin' like that.

Lou Figueroa

I did not know that, but that makes perfect sense.

How ironic that right at the time of this writing, I'm working on "A Review of NASA's Space Launch System," to include the ISS (International Space Station).

 

[lfigueroa]

Or said another way, because there is no non-pool-related corporate sponsor in American professional pool, the players have to survive.

Again, at this stage of the game in the year 2011, how can anyone compare tennis and golf to pool?

You have so-called pro players competing in weekend events, local once-a-week tournaments, and regional tours. Why? It's because pool is what it is. It's a recreational game for leagues, social shooters, and amateurs at this time.

Though the professional players do still have some pride, they recognize that the money situation stinks. That's why the existing lot of American professional players is diminishing.

Don't worry, folks, because, by necessity, there may not be any more professional pool in America. I mean, even the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship is really only a Pro/Am event. We all know that.

You can forget about non-pool-related sponsorship getting involved with pocket billiards in the United States at this time. Heck, they're having a hard enough time keeping the stock market over 10,000. Do you think they're going to invest in pool?

Meanwhile, the pro players that do exist on the tournament trail are banned from some events because of their pro status or they have to give up a ridiculous handicap that Willie Mosconi himself couldn't win at.

Nobody is taking all the prize money and chopping it up. If this is what you think a "saver" is, then you're sorely mistaken.

I think the point is that if you want pool to get to the level of tennis or golf you need to start somewhere or nothing gets better. People can always come up for a reason or excuse why the pros in pool do what they do. But at some point the pros have to change (or at least stop whining about how Coca-Cola or Apple won't sponsor a million dollar tour) if they want to improve their lot in life.

Lou Figueroa
knows the difference
between a chop
and a saver

 

[Nostroke]

I have a friend, one I haven't hung out with in a long while and who reads this forum from time to time, who is addicted. He is prescribed Ambien, but his tolerance is not good anymore. He needs three and four times the dosage to affect him. Poor guy has ringing of the ears, and this is his only escape. He pays BIG BUCKS for Ambien on the Internet, because his prescription always runs out after a week.

Ambien is dangerously addictive. Actually, the best way to fall asleep every night soundly is exercise each and every day. It works. Unfortunately, I always find an excuse not to do it. :embarrassed2:

They are approx $3 each on the net, the same cost as Walgreens, CVS etc but if you need 4 that will add up. Interestingly enough they can often be found cheaper on the street as many folks who get them free, sell'm.

I take one med that is $500 mo-2 others that are over $200. Thankfully i have insurance or id be dead busted. Im surprised my Ins company doesn't put a hit out on me.

 

[Georgia Boy]

I did not know that, but that makes perfect sense.

How ironic that right at the time of this writing, I'm working on "A Review of NASA's Space Launch System," to include the ISS (International Space Station).

Jam
I have had the same problems on and off for several years now and whilst getting to sleep is still sometimes an issue staying as sleep really isn't. I had a Doctor a good few years ago tell me that the best thing to keep you asleep through the night was Benadryl. I have taken them for many years now and it does work for me, I take one about an hour before I go to bed and normally sleep through the night now. I buy them the store brand from BJ's or Costco and they are really cheap that way. I also now find that I need two on a Friday and Saturday night when I try to get 8-10 hrs to make up for the week!

Another thing he explained was that watching TV and using a Computer really should be stopped at least and hour or two before going to bed. His prefernce for that hour or so before bed was either engage in some physical activity :smile: or read a book. I actually discussed this with my current Doctor and he was in total agreement with all that but also emphasised that a book meant a book and not an e-reader.

 

[Nostroke]

Jam
I have had the same problems on and off for several years now and whilst getting to sleep is still sometimes an issue staying as sleep really isn't. I had a Doctor a good few years ago tell me that the best thing to keep you asleep through the night was Benadryl. I have taken them for many years now and it does work for me, I take one about an hour before I go to bed and normally sleep through the night now. I buy them the store brand from BJ's or Costco and they are really cheap that way. I also now find that I need two on a Friday and Saturday night when I try to get 8-10 hrs to make up for the week!

Another thing he explained was that watching TV and using a Computer really should be stopped at least and hour or two before going to bed. His prefernce for that hour or so before bed was either engage in some physical activity :smile: or read a book. I actually discussed this with my current Doctor and he was in total agreement with all that but also emphasised that a book meant a book and not an e-reader.

Trouble with the benadryl for me is they make my mouth so friggin dry, im up half the night chugging water and taking leaks.

 

[JAM]

Jam
I have had the same problems on and off for several years now and whilst getting to sleep is still sometimes an issue staying as sleep really isn't. I had a Doctor a good few years ago tell me that the best thing to keep you asleep through the night was Benadryl. I have taken them for many years now and it does work for me, I take one about an hour before I go to bed and normally sleep through the night now. I buy them the store brand from BJ's or Costco and they are really cheap that way. I also now find that I need two on a Friday and Saturday night when I try to get 8-10 hrs to make up for the week!

Another thing he explained was that watching TV and using a Computer really should be stopped at least and hour or two before going to bed. His prefernce for that hour or so before bed was either engage in some physical activity :smile: or read a book. I actually discussed this with my current Doctor and he was in total agreement with all that but also emphasised that a book meant a book and not an e-reader.

That is good advice, and I admit I'm on the computer just about 24/7 with jobs.

I'm scared of the Benadryl. Here I am, an alumni from the Woodstock era, and I do not take any drugs today, none. I guess I did my share back in the day when I was young and dumb. I am fearful of the side effects of drugs now. I try to do everything naturally today.

I think I may have sleep apnea. Well, I'm pretty sure I do. I hate to admit this, but I snore. In fact, I've been told that I'm pretty loud.

 

[cleary]

I'm not even gonna bother reading all the pages about how stupid this thread is, just going to make sure you know I'm on board. This concept is so horribly stupid it takes nearly zero brain cells to figure out you know nothing about pool, logic or life for that matter. Your post makes zero sense and it's clear you're just trying to start shit. Very "pocketpoint" of you. Please stop posting, you sound like an idiot. Hopefully every reply is like mine and there is no arguing with you, because you are clearly not smart enough to be reasoning with.

 

[JAM]

I'm not even gonna bother reading all the pages about how stupid this thread is, just going to make sure you know I'm on board. This concept is so horribly stupid it takes nearly zero brain cells to figure out you know nothing about pool, logic or life for that matter. Your post makes zero sense and it's clear you're just trying to start shit. Very "pocketpoint" of you. Please stop posting, you sound like an idiot. Hopefully every reply is like mine and there is no arguing with you, because you are clearly not smart enough to be reasoning with.

Would you please clarify who you are posting to?

 

[paulempor]

Would you please clarify who you are posting to?

I am pretty sure Cleary is responding the op JAM, as he said he is not going to read through the whole thread, plus he made a pocketpoint reference, so I am pretty sure it was geared towards dom_poopa (not mispelled)