ACA - What has changed to force a friend to resign his memebership

[blud]

power of buying

one f the original ideas was group buying for there members i dont think that ever took off the way the wanted is there anyone intertested in group buying? the power of numbers is fantastic!!

Lee, my friend your mistaken, I, for one, did make several deals for the ACA members to buy at a discounted rate with a few suppliers, one was with NVF,[no longer in business], We saved about 25% over normall cost when buying small or large amounts, of phonlic tubing..We also had deals working with several wood suppliers, including Atlas.

Some can not see what both associations have done for cuemaking, world wide..Some folks are not for associations some folks are, never the less, both associations have done well, for ALL cuemakers.

This sort of thing that happens with most threads here or on other forums, it gets out of hand with so many differant opinions.

Maybe we should just drop this thread, folks.. after all this is "ask the cuemaker" section...
thanks
blud

 

[ratcues]

I still have not read anything SPECIFIC

Atlas gives a 10% discount to ACA members. Specific enough?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, for once. If you don't want to join that is fine. If you do, that's great. Do what fits your needs and desires. I, for one, want to be elite some day. Not because I am arrogant and want my name lights but because I want to be known for being a superior craftsman. I do not know if I will reach that plateau, but I can look at the roster for the ACA and I have the standard for which to judge my OWN work against.

 

[WilleeCue]

Atlas gives a 10% discount to ACA members. Specific enough?

Yes, thank you.
$1500 to join (first year) to get a 10% discount at Atlas Billiard Supply.
OK ... I will take that into consideration ... anything else?

BTW: joining an organization does not make your work any better or worse than it already is.
Ryan, your cues are fine and no doubt would pass muster if you applied for membership.
Perhaps you can talk Mueller into joining as a merchandising member.

 

[rhncue]

Atlas gives a 10% discount to ACA members. Specific enough?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass, for once. If you don't want to join that is fine. If you do, that's great. Do what fits your needs and desires. I, for one, want to be elite some day. Not because I am arrogant and want my name lights but because I want to be known for being a superior craftsman. I do not know if I will reach that plateau, but I can look at the roster for the ACA and I have the standard for which to judge my OWN work against.

Yes, Atlas gives a 10% discount to members but they also give a 5% discount for web orders so that effectively makes a 5% discount. Got to buy an awful lot of materials to pay for that membership. There are other expenses incurred besides the yearly dues as the the board pushes for members to set up at shows and Expos and that can be very expensive if you don't sell enough cues.
As some have said, it is for some and not for others and I feel it's not for me.

Dick

 

[dave sutton]

what has the aca done for cuemakers WORLD WIDE when they deny over seas sales of equiptment and other products. What about all the cues being made for lucky by just about every member of your group? Thats an entire different can of worms to open.

I agree with the concept but some of the policies are a joke IMO

 

[ratcues]

Mueller Recreational Products is a voting member of the ACA.

 

[Barry C.]

George has been calling me about this thread and thought I would participate. I do see it has drifted from it's original question, but anyway

Chris and Blud seemed to have covered things pretty well. I think the ACA and ICA are fine organizations helping the individual promoting his craft. The organizations has setup with different suppliers discounts for their members, some trade shows also offer a discount to the organizations. Both organizations advertise in different publications promoting the cuemaker membership. I personally feel I get benefits from ICA and I find it enjoyable. Most of us have become friends over the years. We trade information and new ideas freely and help each other anyway we can.

I'm not trying to sell anyone on becoming a member of any organization, it's not for everyone. But I don't see any drawbacks from joining.

Barry

 

[cueman]

QUOTE=WilleeCue]Well, I still have not read anything SPECIFIC as to exactly how joining an origination will help me learn more, improve my skills, or gain recognition.
Do they offer some sort of cue maker training program?
Perhaps some sort of marketing plan?
I do see a cost of $1500 for the first year to join one of them ... If I were accepted.

If I need help learning more I experiment in my shop, call another cue maker on the phone, or post here on AZB as there is a LOT of information offered right here.

If I wanted to gain more recognition I would buy advertising space here on AZB and in pool magazines.
I would also attend a few trade shows or tournaments, and display my unsold cues.
However, I am happy with where I am on that issue at this time.

All the top cue makers would still be top cue makers with or without an organization. There are quite a few top names missing from the membership list.
If they see benefit then they should join ... if they are allowed to do so.

I just do not see how the organizations will actually help the small time cue maker like myself and make it worth the cost.

Speaking of SPECIFIC benefits, We get 10% discounts with a few suppliers. I won't post which ones on here. PM me for specifics with the understanding it does not get posted anywhere. We get special sales from one that no one else gets. We do some co-op buys. We get discounts on some magazine advertising for our members. We also run ads in two magazines which draws people to the ICA site. So that advertising we run gets you more exposure as a member. Trade show booth discounts and more... We have a cue makers forum that does help people with honing their skills. You have listed ways you can get exposure if you wanted it, how you can call other cuemakers for advice and so on. Can you get a half price magazine ad? Can you get any kind of magazine ad for $100 per year? Maybe this forum can get you your info for free. But think again. Would this "Ask the Cuemaker" forum even exist if it had not been for Blud's clout as a the founder of the ACA asking for it to be created? So the associations have been good for cuemakers in many ways you don't even consider.

 

[masonh]

Yes, Atlas gives a 10% discount to members but they also give a 5% discount for web orders so that effectively makes a 5% discount. Got to buy an awful lot of materials to pay for that membership.

also,if you look around elsewhere for pins,phenolic,ferrule material,wood,glues,leather and skins,and etc. it isn't tough to beat the retail store's prices by way more than that 10% anyway.i think lots of guys only use those retail stores for specialty items ayway like bumpers and fiber and linen and it usually doesn't add up to much.in other words it is better to go straight to the source for most expensive cue making supplies.


i am not trying to knock any cuemaker organization b/c i think they are both good and one day i would like to be a member of one,but if i were to buy all my stuff from one retailer,and i get 10% off would end up costing me 30-40%.

i do see the other benefits and some of them look great.and what they have done for cuemaking up to now is incredible.it amazes me that there are 500+ cuemakers out there making maybe 50 cue a year average and there are buyers out there for that many cues.i just can't believe how popular cue collecting is and i think the groups helped that.

 

[WilleeCue]

Would this "Ask the Cuemaker" forum even exist if it had not been for Blud's clout as a the founder of the ACA asking for it to be created?

That would be a question that only the owners of this site can answer.
ASK THE CUEMAKER was a great idea and fills a real need.
I seriously doubt that the ICA had anything to do with it being placed here rather I would think that it was a brilliant idea from a very wise man and that it stood on its own merit ... but if you are saying otherwise ... I could be wrong.

I also stated that I am NOT interested in running magazine ads at this time and that I am very satisfied with the state of my business at this time.

However, I will go out on a limb here and disagree that there are so many cue makers because of the organizations.
I think it is the exact opposite.
The organizations exist because cue making has become so popular and that is a result of the ready supply of materials, equipment, and information coupled with more leisure time and extra money.

Look ... I have said it before and I will say it again ... I am NOT bashing any origination.
I am only responding to this thread and stating MY reasons for not wanting to participate.
The benefits you have mentioned do not fit my needs at this time and I am only speaking MY opinion ... hope that makes it clear.

 

[WilleeCue]

Mueller Recreational Products is a voting member of the ACA.

I stand enlightened and corrected. :embarrassed2:
I applaud Mueller for their support of the game and the craft :clapping:

 

[qbilder]

I'm joining the ICA. Whether I agree or disagree with organizational procedures & ideas from either organization, I do feel it's all cuemakers' obligation & responsibility to contribute something to our trade. We all need to contribute to the promotion of cuemaking. We all need to work together to enlighten the buyers of why cues cost so much. None of us are going to get rich, and cues are never going to become main stream art. But we can make things better if we try. The two organizations have taken the initiative so I chose the one I feel is best & i'm supporting it. I never got off my ass to make things happen, so atleast i'll give financial support to the guy who is. Not only is he trying to help himself, but all of us in general.

I don't know if i'll ever get anything back. I likely have nothing to gain from it rather than knowing I helped them out. Who knows, maybe i'll become involved & try to make things happen. But not right now. So instead of *****ing & moaning about how crappy the trade is, i'm atleast offering support to the guys actively lobbying for it.

As for the ACA, they should feel ashamed using American in their name when their ideology blatantly conflicts with American ideology. American ideology is equal opportunity to all men, freedom & non elitism as all men are created equal. There are other words to insinuate greatness that could be used in the title. I myself am an American cuemaker, a patriot, a veteran of two American/foreign wars, simply an American. I have my own beliefs & ideology but do not blanket it with America's name. To do so is offensive to her name & blatantly hypocrytical. Discriminate at will & create your own elitist laws as you wish, but for the sake of American cuemakers as a whole, don't associate your club with America.

.....just the rants of a "not in the know" "non qualified" "non elitist", maybe semi-retarded American cuemaker. As Eddie says, "i'm a man of my convictions".

 

[WilleeCue]

I'm joining the ICA. Whether I agree or disagree with organizational procedures & ideas from either organization, I do feel it's all cuemakers' obligation & responsibility to contribute something to our trade. We all need to contribute to the promotion of cuemaking. We all need to work together to enlighten the buyers of why cues cost so much. None of us are going to get rich, and cues are never going to become main stream art. But we can make things better if we try. The two organizations have taken the initiative so I chose the one I feel is best & i'm supporting it. I never got off my ass to make things happen, so atleast i'll give financial support to the guy who is. Not only is he trying to help himself, but all of us in general.

Now that is a different viewpoint. Something that I did not consider.
Somehow something clicked with this post.
I have been thinking only of how I can benefit from the cost of the membership.
Perhaps I need to think more along this line of reasoning about giving something back.

 

[BarenbruggeCues]

It's been said before........

"Ask not what the organization can do for you but what you can do for the organization"

 

[blud]

information

your statement,
That would be a question that only the owners of this site can answer.
ASK THE CUEMAKER was a great idea and fills a real need.

Willie, for your information, I, sir started both ASK THE CUEMAKER AND CUE MACHINERY forums. I talked to Mike and he set both of them up. Both sections are here to help all cuemakers, members of either associations or not.
I think we all understand neither association is for you...

nuff said..

Blud

 

[dave sutton]

I'm joining the ICA. Whether I agree or disagree with organizational procedures & ideas from either organization, I do feel it's all cuemakers' obligation & responsibility to contribute something to our trade. We all need to contribute to the promotion of cuemaking. We all need to work together to enlighten the buyers of why cues cost so much. None of us are going to get rich, and cues are never going to become main stream art. But we can make things better if we try. The two organizations have taken the initiative so I chose the one I feel is best & i'm supporting it. I never got off my ass to make things happen, so atleast i'll give financial support to the guy who is. Not only is he trying to help himself, but all of us in general.

I don't know if i'll ever get anything back. I likely have nothing to gain from it rather than knowing I helped them out. Who knows, maybe i'll become involved & try to make things happen. But not right now. So instead of *****ing & moaning about how crappy the trade is, i'm atleast offering support to the guys actively lobbying for it.

As for the ACA, they should feel ashamed using American in their name when their ideology blatantly conflicts with American ideology. American ideology is equal opportunity to all men, freedom & non elitism as all men are created equal. There are other words to insinuate greatness that could be used in the title. I myself am an American cuemaker, a patriot, a veteran of two American/foreign wars, simply an American. I have my own beliefs & ideology but do not blanket it with America's name. To do so is offensive to her name & blatantly hypocrytical. Discriminate at will & create your own elitist laws as you wish, but for the sake of American cuemakers as a whole, don't associate your club with America.

.....just the rants of a "not in the know" "non qualified" "non elitist", maybe semi-retarded American cuemaker. As Eddie says, "i'm a man of my convictions".

Standing ovation!!!!!

My feelings exactly

 

[WilleeCue]

your statement,
That would be a question that only the owners of this site can answer.
ASK THE CUEMAKER was a great idea and fills a real need.

Willie, for your information, I, sir started both ASK THE CUEMAKER AND CUE MACHINERY forums. I talked to Mike and he set both of them up. Both sections are here to help all cuemakers, members of either associations or not.
I think we all understand neither association is for you...

nuff said..

Blud

I was aware of that Blud.
I was paying you a complement.

I am also aware you started the ACA.

 

[Sheldon]

welcome aboard

I'm joining the ICA.

Right on. we'll be the better for it, I'm sure.

 

[qbilder]

Right on. we'll be the better for it, I'm sure.

Thank you for the welcome

 

[cutter]

I'm joining the ICA. Whether I agree or disagree with organizational procedures & ideas from either organization, I do feel it's all cuemakers' obligation & responsibility to contribute something to our trade. We all need to contribute to the promotion of cuemaking. We all need to work together to enlighten the buyers of why cues cost so much. None of us are going to get rich, and cues are never going to become main stream art. But we can make things better if we try. The two organizations have taken the initiative so I chose the one I feel is best & i'm supporting it. I never got off my ass to make things happen, so atleast i'll give financial support to the guy who is. Not only is he trying to help himself, but all of us in general.

I don't know if i'll ever get anything back. I likely have nothing to gain from it rather than knowing I helped them out. Who knows, maybe i'll become involved & try to make things happen. But not right now. So instead of *****ing & moaning about how crappy the trade is, i'm atleast offering support to the guys actively lobbying for it.

As for the ACA, they should feel ashamed using American in their name when their ideology blatantly conflicts with American ideology. American ideology is equal opportunity to all men, freedom & non elitism as all men are created equal. There are other words to insinuate greatness that could be used in the title. I myself am an American cuemaker, a patriot, a veteran of two American/foreign wars, simply an American. I have my own beliefs & ideology but do not blanket it with America's name. To do so is offensive to her name & blatantly hypocrytical. Discriminate at will & create your own elitist laws as you wish, but for the sake of American cuemakers as a whole, don't associate your club with America.

.....just the rants of a "not in the know" "non qualified" "non elitist", maybe semi-retarded American cuemaker. As Eddie says, "i'm a man of my convictions".[/QUOTE

Let's look at some of these statements in a different context. I believe it was Chris Hightower who had the post about elitism. I don't think Blud will back him up on that.
ICA has some membership rules, first your check must not bounce, and secondly, well, I can't think of any other ones. So are they international elitists.
Don't throw that patriot crap around me, I was carrying a military id before you were carrying a drivers license. By the way, I still have mine, as does my son. My dad had one also. Dave Jacoby served in Viet Nam.
I'm sure some of the other members are patriots also.
You all can pick this apart all you want, I'm going to take a walk about. Had enough of wanna be B.S. for a while.