Accu-Rack or Magic Rack?
- Thread starter azbluemach1
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I just think that having a foreign object on the table that can impact the movement of the balls no matter how small is an issue. I get you want a tight rack. But honestly those gaps and the rack are a huge part of the game. If you get a person or a ref to rack the balls properly, figuring out the rack is a huge part of the game. Hell I have an entire book dedicated to "Reading the Rack". Perfect rack every time, but at the expensive of having the center of the balls sit a little higher than normal and also having the 4 - 5 railing balls slow roll off their normal path right near the end just seems like a shitty idea. Seriously, can any of you think of a time where One MM changes the shot completely?
Our game isn't a game of inches. It's much much smaller than that. I'm actually shocked at the amount of people on here that seem to be okay with a foreign object on the table that affects the path of the balls.
Our game isn't a game of inches. It's much much smaller than that. I'm actually shocked at the amount of people on here that seem to be okay with a foreign object on the table that affects the path of the balls.
We actually used the Accu-Rack SOLO which is a larger footprint than the Diamond 9 for the 8 ball event... IF you watched it you would know how well out template worked where the prior year a competing template was discarded after the first day.....
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=381395
117 racks and breaks without a single slug and only a handful of times the rack altered the random path of a ball slightly....
No 10 minutes to rack, no arguments, no hoping the referee actually can rack... It's not 100% certain that they can....
Everyone of the pros at the event had nothing but positive things to say and the only thing that was brought up we did which was to make it easier to remove the template if balls stopped on it... They were all pleased with the way it worked and they all agreed that slow rollers were not a problem... In a few games they even shot over the top of it with zero problems....
What I normally tell people is I would rather fade a slow roller than bad racks or rack mechanics... A slow roller is going to be 50/50 for me sometimes good sometimes bad... I don't know anything about "you" and your karma tho so if it's screwing you EVERY time you might want to look at something beside the rack template LOL.....
We will be using the Accu-Rack Diamond9 at the US Open 9Ball Championships 40th Anniversary this year with an 18" break box and the 9 on the spot... If you want to understand why, look up day 1 2011 Mosconi cup and watch those matches and then watch match 1 from day 2 and you will get the picture....
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=381395
117 racks and breaks without a single slug and only a handful of times the rack altered the random path of a ball slightly....
No 10 minutes to rack, no arguments, no hoping the referee actually can rack... It's not 100% certain that they can....
Everyone of the pros at the event had nothing but positive things to say and the only thing that was brought up we did which was to make it easier to remove the template if balls stopped on it... They were all pleased with the way it worked and they all agreed that slow rollers were not a problem... In a few games they even shot over the top of it with zero problems....
What I normally tell people is I would rather fade a slow roller than bad racks or rack mechanics... A slow roller is going to be 50/50 for me sometimes good sometimes bad... I don't know anything about "you" and your karma tho so if it's screwing you EVERY time you might want to look at something beside the rack template LOL.....
We will be using the Accu-Rack Diamond9 at the US Open 9Ball Championships 40th Anniversary this year with an 18" break box and the 9 on the spot... If you want to understand why, look up day 1 2011 Mosconi cup and watch those matches and then watch match 1 from day 2 and you will get the picture....
One big thing I haven't seen mentioned is storage. I haven't had good experiences with magic racks being rolled up, and those don't do a very good job once it develops its first crease (the upside is that they're nearly disposable). In the Accu-rack tube, I've had little trouble getting it to lay down flat after the first rack or so. The long-term usability and knowing that I don't have to be afraid of creases makes it a simply a matter of whether you want to buy once, cry once, or repeatedly buying the cheaper one.
I'm not trying to be a dick about it. I get it, it's a unique product and people need to make a living. But my personal opinion, is I prefer the rack. I think racking is a huge part of the game, as well as reading a rack.
I just think about all the times I heard players complaining about the humidity in the room, the spot sticker throwing off shots, the cloth being slow/fast, the chalk dust on the cloth, etc. etc. etc. and It's just incredibly shocking that they are suddenly okay with a piece of plastic on the table, that does in fact affect the movement of the balls.
I know I'm in the minority but if someone is giving me a slop rack to be a dick and try and get an advantage, then they re-rack it. simple. I walk up look for the gaps around the money ball, and figure how to bust it open to my liking.
Again just my in the minority opinion. Good luck with the us open 9 ball campaign etc.
I just think about all the times I heard players complaining about the humidity in the room, the spot sticker throwing off shots, the cloth being slow/fast, the chalk dust on the cloth, etc. etc. etc. and It's just incredibly shocking that they are suddenly okay with a piece of plastic on the table, that does in fact affect the movement of the balls.
I know I'm in the minority but if someone is giving me a slop rack to be a dick and try and get an advantage, then they re-rack it. simple. I walk up look for the gaps around the money ball, and figure how to bust it open to my liking.
Again just my in the minority opinion. Good luck with the us open 9 ball campaign etc.
This probably doesn't apply to many of you...but one reason I like racking templates is: I play with a lot of casual players who couldn't manage a tight rack, under the best of conditions, if their life depended on it. They don't have the hand-strength, eyesight or patience.
It takes two minutes to teach them how to use a racking template and their success ratio (tight racks) is pretty good. Using a triangle was beyond hopeless.
It takes two minutes to teach them how to use a racking template and their success ratio (tight racks) is pretty good. Using a triangle was beyond hopeless.
Two separate questions here.
First, I'm a big fan of the AccuRack over the Magic Rack. I think the material offers several advantages, and it does a good job racking with older ball sets that have a little wear. Also, I think the action you get is a little more natural, and the corner ball isn't as wired as with the MR.
Second, I will always prefer a template if given the choice. It's quicker to rack the balls, and you know you're getting/giving a good rack. Takes the BS out of it. The positives far outweigh the marginal negatives (balls laying on the template, balls rolling over it) in my opinion.
First, I'm a big fan of the AccuRack over the Magic Rack. I think the material offers several advantages, and it does a good job racking with older ball sets that have a little wear. Also, I think the action you get is a little more natural, and the corner ball isn't as wired as with the MR.
Second, I will always prefer a template if given the choice. It's quicker to rack the balls, and you know you're getting/giving a good rack. Takes the BS out of it. The positives far outweigh the marginal negatives (balls laying on the template, balls rolling over it) in my opinion.
This is going to come across as a biased question.
But when did it become okay to play with a foreign object on the pool table? Seriously, I can't stand those racks. Bust the balls open and you watch the slow rollers start shifting directions etc.
I can't be the only one who thinks that playing with this are affecting the game?
If it is good enough for professional players to use in major tournaments, I am pretty sure it is good enough for us dogs to use.
Clearly Piper you have not used one and do not really know about them so maybe you should not be in a thread speaking out against them when the OP asked which one to use, not IF one should be used.
As I said previously, if it is good enough to be used by pros that make a living at playing this game then it is certainly good enough and acceptable enough for you.
Pattern racking and learning the rack is for panzies. Break the balls and shoot. If you are good enough you can make them all in still.
Clearly Piper you have not used one and do not really know about them so maybe you should not be in a thread speaking out against them when the OP asked which one to use, not IF one should be used.
As I said previously, if it is good enough to be used by pros that make a living at playing this game then it is certainly good enough and acceptable enough for you.
Pattern racking and learning the rack is for panzies. Break the balls and shoot. If you are good enough you can make them all in still.
"edited"
"As I said previously, if it is good enough to be used by pros that make a living at playing this game then it is certainly good enough and acceptable enough for you."
It's not.
"Pattern racking and learning the rack is for panzies. Break the balls and shoot. If you are good enough you can make them all in still.
"Is this a serious comment? Learning an major part of the game is for panzies? okay... I just... what?
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At the professional and the high end amateur levels everyone is looking for the gaps that will allow them to consistently make a ball and control the 1ball for a shot... The money ball is the last thing anyone loos at when they can run out in 1 inning as long as they make a ball and get a shot... In most big events the 9ball doesn't count in the bottom 2 and 10 doesn't count at all so those are not the gaps you need to be reading...
In 9 ball it's about the wing ball and as such there is a left and right track that if broken increases the chances of the opposite wing going...
In 10ball it's usually about the 2 balls behind the 1 so they can be made in the side...
IF they do not see the gaps they like they ask for a re-rack if it's opponent rack or they will re-rack until they get what they want before breaking... Nothing like watching the balls being re-racked 5-10 times between each game....
Joe Tucker has 2 videos out on what gaps do what in either game.. I would say 95% of the professional and high level amateurs now possess that information so they are all going to be looking for the same exact flaws so all not using templates does now is to slow the game down because of racking shenanigans....
Most of the players so far that I have met that are against the templates fall in 4 camps... 1) They want to give their opponents a bad rack in opponent racks 2) they want to give themselves a wired ball in rack your own or 3)they feel like the templates wire the balls so it takes away someone having a good break... We addressed group 3 with the Accu-Racks.. The guy with the better break still has an advantage because the wing ball isn't wired.... The other 2 groups above there is no fix for other than forcing template use to take both of the first 2 options off the table......
The 4th camp is a big one.. It's usually made up of players that really have no understanding of what the gaps do or how consistent the break shot really is if it is practiced... They don't understand the ball paths and assume the balls are running over the template a baziilion times as the they bounce around the table... My favorite ever was a decent player getting mad at the accu-rack playing 10ball because he could never make a ball.... He had zero clue how to break 10ball and knew nothing about the ball paths and was breaking from the wing so he was getting what the 10ball rack gives up from there.... Nothing...
If you play 8ball the next time you make the corner ball straight into the corner be aware that that ball does not ever go straight into the corner unless there were gaps... It has to go 4 rails... Straight in you had a bad rack.. Helped you this time... May not the next time... Would rather depend on the quality of my break than the quality of a rack done with a triangle. Unless I get to rack for myself and I won't quit racking until I see something I KNOW. Some people would say that it's cheating but it's not... If I am allowed to rack them as many times as I want until I am satisfied then why would anyone stop on a rack that they don't know?
Also be aware that the 2nd ball break in 8Ball will get you crushed by good players... We had 117 breaks with arguably the 6 best 8ball players on the planet Alex tried it once laughingly... None of them were hoping for the 8 ball they were all breaking them wide open so they could run out... The 2nd ball break is only found usually on bar tables in league play
Food for thought...
Chris
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I can appreciate what your saying and you are extremely knowledgeable and I no one can question that.
Me personally, the only thing that should be on top of the cloth are the balls. I really do understand what you are achieving and applaud you for your unique invention. But for me, and only me, if something is on the table, that could potentially affect the path of the balls, I don't want it apart of the game.
I just played when these things weren't around, where we brushed the tables, removed all the debris, and played on tables where the foot spot was marked with a small sharpie dot. I've always just been in the understanding that if you have a foreign object on the table that affects or could possibly affect the motion of the balls, that it was a bad thing.
So before I get crucified, let me be the first to honestly admit that It's just my opinion and I am nobody that knows nothing.
Me personally, the only thing that should be on top of the cloth are the balls. I really do understand what you are achieving and applaud you for your unique invention. But for me, and only me, if something is on the table, that could potentially affect the path of the balls, I don't want it apart of the game.
I just played when these things weren't around, where we brushed the tables, removed all the debris, and played on tables where the foot spot was marked with a small sharpie dot. I've always just been in the understanding that if you have a foreign object on the table that affects or could possibly affect the motion of the balls, that it was a bad thing.
So before I get crucified, let me be the first to honestly admit that It's just my opinion and I am nobody that knows nothing.
I thought the same thing and thought it was odd at first. I hadnt played for about 10 years and when i went to play in a local tournament they were using magic racks. After a couple breaks i was a convert. I now only use the magic rack on my home table and would try the accu-rack if i could buy them in canada. The shipping and duty make them much more expensive than the magic racks which i can buy locally
I would highly recommend trying one of them out (and take some shots on top of them). I would be surprised if you noticed a difference.
Cheers,
Chris
Chris -- Interesting situation with Orcollo in last week's US Open 8-Ball Championship.
He was having all sorts of trouble breaking on the first two days, using a head-ball break. In his two streamed matches on those days, he made a ball without fouling only 2 times on 11 breaks (18%), whereas the rest of the field in the streamed matches was successful about two-thirds of the time.
When he came back for the matches on Friday, he used the 2nd-ball break. In his 4 matches on that final day he broke successfully 25 times in 31 breaks (81%). Quite a few times his break did not distribute the balls all over the table as was happening on good head-ball breaks, but he still found ways to run out (61% B&R on that final day!).
And with that 2nd-ball break, he often made the corner ball on the opposite side of the rack in its near-corner pocket.
But, then, that was on a 7-footer.
Thanks and very interesting AtLarge.. Sadly I did not order the PPV for the bartables as I was stuck at home and watching barbox is only fun if there is a group of people involved... May take a SOLO out Wednesday and try it on the barbox with the 2nd ball break... I never play on the 7s so I never use the 2nd ball break to have observed the corner ball path using it....
"edited"
"As I said previously, if it is good enough to be used by pros that make a living at playing this game then it is certainly good enough and acceptable enough for you."
It's not.
"Pattern racking and learning the rack is for panzies. Break the balls and shoot. If you are good enough you can make them all in still.
Is this a serious comment? Learning an major part of the game is for panzies? okay... I just... what?
Pool room tables usually have so many tap marks and holes that a marginally tight rack is often difficult to impossible to achieve. Cue balls flying off the table and slug racks are frustrating. The Delta is good with decent cloth and a good set of balls. Otherwise you can have a perfect triangle and it wouldn't matter. I've been racking for 40 years at numerous stops, and I will take a template any day of the week, especially over the crummy plastic triangles at most pool rooms. These templates are a blessing.
I thought the same thing and thought it was odd at first. I hadnt played for about 10 years and when i went to play in a local tournament they were using magic racks. After a couple breaks i was a convert. I now only use the magic rack on my home table and would try the accu-rack if i could buy them in canada. The shipping and duty make them much more expensive than the magic racks which i can buy locally
I would highly recommend trying one of them out (and take some shots on top of them). I would be surprised if you noticed a difference.
Cheers,
Chris
Oh I have been. The magic rack several dozen times. Accu rack only about two dozen. I get the tight pack. I seriously do, but I've seen it change several shots as well.
That was just my opinion. I didn't mean to jump in on someone's advertising, wasn't my intention, I was just saying that they aren't for me and those were my reasons
They Won't be for everyone. And that is entirely OK.. The only rule this game really needs to always remember it to have fun and enjoy the game..
This was actually a question as to which template was better by the OP.. This was not started by me as an advertisement. I simply stated why I believe ours to be the better option...