Accurate cue placement-Is it technique or is it talent

z0nt0n3r

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
most top players do it instinctively without much of an effort while the lower amateur players are very inconsistent with this and it's where most of their misses come from .

so if you are inconsistent with this and you place the cue slightly across the line of aim sometimes to the left and other times to the right or the cue aims with a quarter of a mm of unintentional side when you intend to hit center ball you have two choices : either you commit , cue straight and most likely miss the shot or you start steering the cue to make the balls to compensate for the faulty alignment which will make you an inconsistent player . there is no way around this.

so having tried many , many things without being able to fix this and be consistent with it , i want to ask what are all possible reasons for this cue alignment issue and if a player does all the steps needed in his technique to be consistent with this yet still struggles and is inconsistent , doesn't this mean that he just doesn't have the talent and ability to do this and become a great player?
 
Last edited:

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
most top players do it instinctively without much of an effort
They've put in years of effort to reach that level of "instinct".

...either you commit , cue straight and most likely miss the shot or you start steering the cue to make the balls to compensate for the faulty alignment which will make you an inconsistent player . there is no way around this.
Of course there's a way around it - you just haven't found it yet. It can be a hard thing to diagnose on your own - a good instructor with video stroke analysis capability (like Scott Lee, for instance, or some others on here) can probably help you.

If you post a video of yourself you might get some useful comments here, but nothing as useful as in-person coaching.

pj
chgo
 
Last edited:

z0nt0n3r

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
They've put in years of effort to reach that level of "instinct".


Of course there's a way around it - you just haven't found it yet. It can be a hard thing to diagnose on your own - a good instructor with video stroke analysis capability (like Scott Lee, for instance, or some others on here) can probably help you.

If you post a video of yourself you might get some useful comments here, but nothing as useful as in-person coaching.

pj
chgo

"They've put in years of effort to reach that level of "instinct". "
so have many other players yet they are nowhere near their level.

"Of course there's a way around it - you just haven't found it yet"
how do you know that there is a way for every player?
 
Last edited:

KenRobbins

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
most top players do it instinctively without much of an effort while the lower amateur players are very inconsistent with this and it's where most of their misses come from .

so if you are inconsistent with this and you place the cue slightly across the line of aim sometimes to the left and other times to the right or the cue aims with a quarter of a mm of unintentional side when you intend to hit center ball you have two choices : either you commit , cue straight and most likely miss the shot or you start steering the cue to make the balls to compensate for the faulty alignment which will make you an inconsistent player . there is no way around this.

so having tried many , many things without being able to fix this and be consistent with it , i want to ask what are all possible reasons for this cue alignment issue and if a player does all the steps needed in his technique to be consistent with this yet still struggles and is inconsistent , doesn't this mean that he just doesn't have the talent and ability to do this and become a great player?

In the past year I changed, can't think of what you call it. Basically my chin was at least 6 inches or more above the cue. I had to change my stance and some other things to get my chin on the cue. The biggest challenge for me was retraining my feet where to go.

When I got my stubborn feet finally trained where to go everything else fell into place. You know if your shooting straight or not, like you already mentioned. It took me maybe 4 weeks to change everything, but I put many hours into those 4 weeks.

It doesn't take years to learn to shoot straight, unless you take a lot of breaks after practicing for only 20 minuets. lol

You always start from the ground up when building something. Start with the feet.

(I'm not an instructor)
 

evergruven

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
When I got my stubborn feet finally trained where to go everything else fell into place.

You always start from the ground up when building something. Start with the feet.

(I'm not an instructor)

right on
footwork in pool is crucial
yet somehow seems underrated
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
most top players do it instinctively without much of an effort while the lower amateur players are very inconsistent with this and it's where most of their misses come from .

so if you are inconsistent with this and you place the cue slightly across the line of aim sometimes to the left and other times to the right or the cue aims with a quarter of a mm of unintentional side when you intend to hit center ball you have two choices : either you commit , cue straight and most likely miss the shot or you start steering the cue to make the balls to compensate for the faulty alignment which will make you an inconsistent player . there is no way around this.

so having tried many , many things without being able to fix this and be consistent with it , i want to ask what are all possible reasons for this cue alignment issue and if a player does all the steps needed in his technique to be consistent with this yet still struggles and is inconsistent , doesn't this mean that he just doesn't have the talent and ability to do this and become a great player?

With low amateur players, most of their misses are due to the fact that they are unable to correctly diagnose the cause of their errors. You need a significant amount of knowledge in order to do that, and at that level, they simply don't have enough knowledge.

In the case of a faulty cue alignment, try to think of it as more of a result than a cause. It sounds as if you have yet to locate the cause. Yes, there are natural athletes who just seem to fall into place easier than others, so they will find their alignment more naturally than others. While many pro players are natural athletes, some aren't. If things don't fall into place for you, it doesn't mean it's impossible. You just have to troubleshoot your game.
 
Last edited:

KenRobbins

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
so having tried many , many things without being able to fix this and be consistent with it , i want to ask what are all possible reasons for this cue alignment issue and if a player does all the steps needed in his technique to be consistent with this yet still struggles and is inconsistent , doesn't this mean that he just doesn't have the talent and ability to do this and become a great player?

https://drstankovich.com/hard-work-...ften-the-real-reason-for-athletic-excellence/

When your giving 100% and feel like giving up, it's time to give it 1000%. Don't ever give up. If you don't have money for instruction, there's tons of instructional videos online. Paying an instructor would be a much easier road to take if that's an option for you.

Barry Stark is one of my favorites on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/c/BarryStarkSnookerCoach
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
this may or may not help you based on your receptivity to the concept
maybe it will help others
i am not an instructor
https://www.drdouggreen.com/wp-content/Talent-Is-Overrated.pdf

Those are blurbs from a book that are trying to entice someone to buy it. That blurb at the end --- as for why someone desires to practice so much --- well, we'll have to do some more research on that because we don't know why.

Please --- throw that thing in the trash. It's a sales pitch, and a useless one at that.
 

SFC9ball

JimBaker PBIA Instructor
Silver Member
Those are blurbs from a book that are trying to entice someone to buy it. That blurb at the end --- as for why someone desires to practice so much --- well, we'll have to do some more research on that because we don't know why.

Please --- throw that thing in the trash. It's a sales pitch, and a useless one at that.

I agree Fran this is nothing more than a sales pitch to buy the book. BUT If you just look at the information at face value the information provided grabs you and says "RESEARCH ME" to find out the "WHY" and "HOW"
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Those are blurbs from a book that are trying to entice someone to buy it. That blurb at the end --- as for why someone desires to practice so much --- well, we'll have to do some more research on that because we don't know why.

Please --- throw that thing in the trash. It's a sales pitch, and a useless one at that.

I have to respectfully disagree with you Fran that it’s a piece of trash.
How often is it said that
an amateur practices until they make a shot
A pro practices until they can’t miss the shot
Isn’t that deliberate practice?
That’s only one example
I think if you re read some of the points mentioned and not the sales pitch
You may not think it’s so worthless
I could be wrong
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Those are blurbs from a book that are trying to entice someone to buy it. That blurb at the end --- as for why someone desires to practice so much --- well, we'll have to do some more research on that because we don't know why.

Please --- throw that thing in the trash. It's a sales pitch, and a useless one at that.
It was written by the editor of a business magazine. He is selling boxes of books to CEOs. They are going to require their employees to read them. Among other things in the sales blurb:

Three things don’t appear to drive great performance. They are experience, specific inborn abilities, and general abilities such as intelligence and memory. Now we look for what does.
What a remarkable statement. I now understand that a side-rail-side-rail around the table position shot with reverse on the first cushion does not require experience to play accurately.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I agree Fran this is nothing more than a sales pitch to buy the book. BUT If you just look at the information at face value the information provided grabs you and says "RESEARCH ME" to find out the "WHY" and "HOW"
What do you find most useful in the blurb?
 

SFC9ball

JimBaker PBIA Instructor
Silver Member
What do you find most useful in the blurb?

"Talent being over rated" , there were other pieces I saw in the paragraphs that I remember when I first saw them that caught my attention so I went and investigated them and it changed my outlook on talent and hard work. I believe in the hard work correctly with a plan, short and long term goals a map of programmed drills, competition ETC. a person can attain a high level (PRO SPEED) in pool.

Where most people fall short is the time and dedication it takes to get there.
 

BC21

Poolology
Gold Member
Silver Member
this may or may not help you based on your receptivity to the concept
maybe it will help others
i am not an instructor
https://www.drdouggreen.com/wp-content/Talent-Is-Overrated.pdf

Looks like excellent reading for anyone that really wants to understand how the brain functions with regard to talent and how we develop it. Every one of these little statements/blurps goes right along with some of the best books written on the subject of creating talent, skills, habits, brainpower, etc... Here are a few of those books:

The Little Red Book of Talent, by Daniel Cohen
The Talent Code, by Daniel Cohen
The Sports Gene, by David Epstein
Brain Rules, by John Medina
The Power of Habit, by Charles Duhigg
The Art of Learning, by Josh Waitzkin

These are all great books, and I've learned plenty from each one of them. Sometimes the advice you get here, or from local fellow pool players, might contradict the lessons provided in these books. But if you really want to understand how we learn and develop skills, habits, and talents in the most efficient and effective manner possible, you can't go wrong investing a few bucks into a few of these books.

With that said, you also can't go wrong having a professional instructor analyze your fundamentals for any obvious flaws holding you back.
 

KenRobbins

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
right on
footwork in pool is crucial
yet somehow seems underrated

I think the main thing that's underrated is how many repetitions and time involved with practice sessions. When I practice I push myself to the point of wanting to give up, then push myself through it until I succeed. The feelings a person goes through after a long days hard practice session. Who says grown men don't cry? lol
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20200921-140838_Gallery.jpg
    Screenshot_20200921-140838_Gallery.jpg
    30.5 KB · Views: 111

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... Where most people fall short is the time and dedication it takes to get there.
Is the ability to give your full attention to what you're doing a talent?

Maybe "talent" is the wrong word. There are many qualities that a person may have more or less of than another person. Each of us is different. Some of those differences have an effect on how quickly a person will learn and on the highest level they may achieve.

"Anyone could win an Olympic gold medal in any event they wanted to if they just applied themselves," may make for a fine motivational speech, but it's false.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Looks like excellent reading for anyone that really wants to understand how the brain functions with regard to talent and how we develop it. ...
What did you think of the particular part I quoted above?
 

BC21

Poolology
Gold Member
Silver Member
Is the ability to give your full attention to what you're doing a talent?

Maybe "talent" is the wrong word. There are many qualities that a person may have more or less of than another person. Each of us is different. Some of those differences have an effect on how quickly a person will learn and on the highest level they may achieve.

"Anyone could win an Olympic gold medal in any event they wanted to if they just applied themselves," may make for a fine motivational speech, but it's false.

Yes, the ability to focus (give your full attention) is a talent or skill that one can acquire with practice.

And you're exactly right....if all it took were desire and a willingness to apply ourselves, anyone could be excellent at anything they try. Unfortunately, genetics does play a part, so not everyone is equal when it comes to developing or mastering certain skills.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Yes, the ability to focus (give your full attention) is a talent or skill that one can acquire with practice.....
But it's not a yes/no black/white situation. Attention-paying has a range from "hardly any, ever" to "so intense it is scary". Some people are ready to struggle with mastering a shot for hours and others will never put in more than a few minutes on a shot.
 
Top