Accurate cue placement-Is it technique or is it talent

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
Hi Scott, your a master instructor for a reason and I don't doubt you. But if a person can't focus more than 20 minutes on something they want to master, maybe that deep desire isn't there like they thought. I'd have to set a timer for 20 minutes to get me to stop. When I often look at the time I'm usually on the table a couple more hours than I thought.

Most students (mental or physical activities) need study breaks. It's not "Scientists said don't play pool for more than 20 minutes" but "Scientists agree, take a five-minute break every 20 to 50 minutes or so to refresh, and to allow learning to seep in."

Most players have had a breakthrough up to 24 hours after a session. For example, the next day after an emotional match when you realize you hit the ball too hard or etc. to do your best.

If you benefit by what is known as "falling in", getting into a zone where you can play and learn for hours without a break, that's great--and one way to know what you're good at doing.

When I'm booked for an all-day lesson I institute regular rest breaks and also check in with the player to see if we're doing too many rest breaks, or too few.
 

KenRobbins

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Most students (mental or physical activities) need study breaks. It's not "Scientists said don't play pool for more than 20 minutes" but "Scientists agree, take a five-minute break every 20 to 50 minutes or so to refresh, and to allow learning to seep in."

Most players have had a breakthrough up to 24 hours after a session. For example, the next day after an emotional match when you realize you hit the ball too hard or etc. to do your best.

If you benefit by what is known as "falling in", getting into a zone where you can play and learn for hours without a break, that's great--and one way to know what you're good at doing.

When I'm booked for an all-day lesson I institute regular rest breaks and also check in with the player to see if we're doing too many rest breaks, or too few.

I get that. If you don't have a partner to help set balls back up, you have to stop to set some balls back, that's a break. The average time for a drill is around 3 minutes and about the same or more to reset the balls back up. Same thing when when you rerack a set of balls. Your already getting breaks.

Researching some of these psychology articles is pretty cool and I'll try and read as much as I can in my downtime. No matter what I'm working on I don't stop until I'm finished or run out of daylight. Is that healthy, probably not, but when a job needs done I'm one of the first to get a call.

Edit: After a little research, I guess I'd be considered a workaholic. Time to train myself to sit back and have a relapse with a beer. Quit drinking in 2007. Guys at work will be pissed. The slackers will have to do their share of work now. lol
 
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BC21

Poolology
Gold Member
Silver Member
Hi Scott, your a master instructor for a reason and I don't doubt you. But if a person can't focus more than 20 minutes on something they want to master, maybe that deep desire isn't there like they thought. I'd have to set a timer for 20 minutes to get me to stop. When I often look at the time I'm usually on the table a couple more hours than I thought.

The thing is... it's a personal thing. Most people do better practicing in short intervals, taking breaks to digest information and feedback. It's a good way to study for college exams also, rather than trying to cram everything in over a 3 or 4 hour study session, break it up into 3 or 4 sessions over 2 or 3 days, 20min or so per session. It is very effective. But some people can remain focused for longer periods of time, and these types can put in 2 to 8 hours like it's nothing, and it works well for them.
 

KenRobbins

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The thing is... it's a personal thing. Most people do better practicing in short intervals, taking breaks to digest information and feedback. It's a good way to study for college exams also, rather than trying to cram everything in over a 3 or 4 hour study session, break it up into 3 or 4 sessions over 2 or 3 days, 20min or so per session. It is very effective. But some people can remain focused for longer periods of time, and these types can put in 2 to 8 hours like it's nothing, and it works well for them.

I'm finally starting to get it what a lot of you have been saying. I'm not a window licker, but I guess I'm a little slow. lol

If a coach had me practicing something and wanted me stop after 20 minutes, he'd have to tie me down to a chair. lol

I can't remember the age, but I'm guessing around 10 years old. Spent the weekend at my uncle's because he had a table. Eventually dad got me my own table. He set a cut shot up along the long rail shooting pass the side pocket and said try this shot here. He went to bed and woke up in the morning in shock I was still trying to make the same exact shot. If I remember correctly, I only made it a couple times in the several hours. lol
 

BC21

Poolology
Gold Member
Silver Member
I'm finally starting to get it what a lot of you have been saying. I'm not a window licker, but I guess I'm a little slow. lol

If a coach had me practicing something and wanted me stop after 20 minutes, he'd have to tie me down to a chair. lol

I can't remember the age, but I'm guessing around 10 years old. Spent the weekend at my uncle's because he had a table. Eventually dad got me my own table. He set a cut shot up along the long rail shooting pass the side pocket and said try this shot here. He went to bed and woke up in the morning in shock I was still trying to make the same exact shot. If I remember correctly, I only made it a couple times in the several hours. lol

Lol. I understand. A good coach will gage your progress and focus during that 20 minutes. If the coach begins to notice that you're just going through the motions, monotonously, repeating the same errors with little attention to feedback or corrective instruction, then continuing the session is a waste of time. The coach should make you take a break. If you show no signs of boredom or loss of focus or whatever, then the coach is likely to keep you doing whatever you're doing.
 

KenRobbins

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Lol. I understand. A good coach will gage your progress and focus during that 20 minutes. If the coach begins to notice that you're just going through the motions, monotonously, repeating the same errors with little attention to feedback or corrective instruction, then continuing the session is a waste of time. The coach should make you take a break. If you show no signs of boredom or loss of focus or whatever, then the coach is likely to keep you doing whatever you're doing.

I had a rough childhood. As far back as I can remember from kindergarten, my life was a living nightmare. Under my circumstances it was learn to focus or else. Just an example of one of the lesser violent things I experienced in childhood. Dad always bought me shoes that were always to big for room to grow in. I got smacked in the head everytime I dragged my feet when walking. Talk about walking on glass. It was either try to be perfect and focus continuously on any flaw I had at an early age or else. Luckily I was always good at with whatever I chose to do.

I'm far from perfect, but I'm proud where I'm at today. If I struggle at something, that little voice in the back of my head that "you'll never amount to anything" makes the sky the limit for me. If I lose focus are feeling fatigue, I just work harder.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Regarding practice time, I think every player should experience a marathon practice session every so often. That means 6 or more hours straight. When you play that long, you start to lose your conscious restrictions and at some point you just start to let go and start playing. It's a very rewarding experience. I'm sure that 20 minute concentration theory has some merit, but that's not what this is about. Sometimes you just need to get out of your own way and the way to do it is to break yourself down by fatigue.
 

KenRobbins

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I apologize for my last post and won't edit it unless asked. If you search about athletes with childhood trauma, you'll get a better understanding if interested. Guys that think the way I practice is abuse, they don't know what abuse is and would probably struggle to keep up. lol
 

KenRobbins

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There's one person on this board that doesn't know me personally, but are good friends with a couple of my family members. They can confirm with them if to verify what I posted isn't BS.

Remembering back when I was kid I loved speed skating and usually came in 1st place. One race I collided with another kid and we fell and I broke my arm. I got up and finished that race and got 2nd place. I don't think that's natural talent. Mom kept all my trophies from skating and baseball.

People read into all this stuff and assume one thing. As for permanent relationship issues. Besides my wife I've been with for over 20 years, my dad is usually the one I talk to the most and hold no resentment. That's probably not the case for some, but I was fortunate enough to let go and live to let live.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Admirable. Alex P interview says 10 hrs a day. College kids can put 18 hrs a day pulling boot straps. Gotta do what it is.
 

KenRobbins

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was thinking about my cousin that got a football scholarship and played college football. I don't follow football, but he was an offensive lineman I think they called them. When he pissed off dad he had to dig out the maple and oak tree stumps with a shovel after he cut down the tree when he was a kid. Some of you may think that's not possible, I assure you it is.

A couple years ago dad and I were trying to lift part of the base of a maple tree together. My cousin said step aside ladies and picked it up like a 20lb bag of charcoal. Kids today think it's unfair when they have to rake a yard of leaves.

If kids and young adults(lol) can focus on playing video games for hours. How much harder is it to get off your ass just to walk around a pool table with a cue and put the same amount of effort into the game of pool?
 

z0nt0n3r

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
just out of curiosity,what percentage do you guys think that pool pros place the cue bang on the line of aim and not slightly across it or with a touch of unitentional side,in a match of race to 9 or 11?i rarely see top pool pros steer the cue to make the shot and they make most shots they play,so it has to be around 80-90% of the time i guess??
 
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Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
just out of curiosity,what percentage do you guys think that pool pros place the cue bang on the line of aim and not slightly across it or with a touch of unitentional side,in a match of race to 9 or 11?i rarely see top pool pros steer the cue to make the shot and they make most shots they play,so it has to be around 80-90% of the time i guess??
The answer is unknowable without some serious improvement in video transmissions.

If you want to see major across-the-ball shooting, check out Judd Trump the current world snooker champion and the #1 ranked player. He says that he had no idea he was doing that before his mechanics had solidified. He apparently has no intention of changing.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
just out of curiosity,what percentage do you guys think that pool pros place the cue bang on the line of aim and not slightly across it or with a touch of unitentional side,in a match of race to 9 or 11?i rarely see top pool pros steer the cue to make the shot and they make most shots they play,so it has to be around 80-90% of the time i guess??
Piggyback question: Is this thread about cue ball placement or cue stick placement?

I'm in a fundamental perfection phase of pool and focusing on 180 degree cuts; dead straight shots, sticking the ball follow, draw, etc... It's amazing what you learn about aim and stroke practicing these. The effect is like balancing a ball on a ball on a needle. Don't need to expound there. You can delve into your incompetence at your leisure.

One epiphany I think worth sharing concerns why many players use favoring english when center ball will do and is clearly more precise. Simply, it's that ball on a ball on a needle (BOABOAN if I need to bring it up again) effect. Whether they know it or not, using favoring english or faulty aim or whatever isn't quite right, zones the shots into a tangible, repeatable event. Subtler but maybe more important, it zones out the dreaded BOABOAN effect.
Anyway I'm sticking with straight ins for now. Great drill, don't need to beat anybody or string of body... earn, learn, or burn...
 

z0nt0n3r

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The answer is unknowable without some serious improvement in video transmissions.

If you want to see major across-the-ball shooting, check out Judd Trump the current world snooker champion and the #1 ranked player. He says that he had no idea he was doing that before his mechanics had solidified. He apparently has no intention of changing.
yes i know,judd trump is one of the most talented players i've ever seen,to be able to pot so many balls on a snooker table by starting off with his cue offline is incredible
 

z0nt0n3r

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Piggyback question: Is this thread about cue ball placement or cue stick placement?

I'm in a fundamental perfection phase of pool and focusing on 180 degree cuts; dead straight shots, sticking the ball follow, draw, etc... It's amazing what you learn about aim and stroke practicing these. The effect is like balancing a ball on a ball on a needle. Don't need to expound there. You can delve into your incompetence at your leisure.

One epiphany I think worth sharing concerns why many players use favoring english when center ball will do and is clearly more precise. Simply, it's that ball on a ball on a needle (BOABOAN if I need to bring it up again) effect. Whether they know it or not, using favoring english or faulty aim or whatever isn't quite right, zones the shots into a tangible, repeatable event. Subtler but maybe more important, it zones out the dreaded BOABOAN effect.
Anyway I'm sticking with straight ins for now. Great drill, don't need to beat anybody or string of body... earn, learn, or burn...
it's about cue stick placement.no matter how hard i try,i'm placing the cue across the line of aim on most shots,so i made this thread because i believe that very accurate cue placement is mostly about talent/great hand-eye coordination and if you don't have that,there isn't much you can do about it.some people here disagree with this and if they are right,i would like to find out all the possible causes of this problem.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
it's about cue stick placement.no matter how hard i try,i'm placing the cue across the line of aim on most shots,so i made this thread because i believe that very accurate cue placement is mostly about talent/great hand-eye coordination and if you don't have that,there isn't much you can do about it.some people here disagree with this and if they are right,i would like to find out all the possible causes of this problem.
Interesting. That's a major concern in 180 degree shots and as I see it a possible flaw in competitive dynamics. IOW, you gotta stay loose and in the gud nuff to wine zone. Anyway, I haven't reread this thread so If I've posted the following here, BFD.

Lay the cue on the table, on line, and contemplate it as part of the shot. Without moving the stick, get into position "around" it; carefully picking it up in place. What you see now may not look on line. That will be the "error" you need to get comfortable with. Memorize it. More on this if you care...
lol...
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
just out of curiosity,what percentage do you guys think that pool pros place the cue bang on the line of aim and not slightly across it or with a touch of unitentional side,in a match of race to 9 or 11?i rarely see top pool pros steer the cue to make the shot and they make most shots they play,so it has to be around 80-90% of the time i guess??
IMO based on my own experience I think it is 100%. I think once you find center either by luck or persistence, once you know what it looks and feels like then it is very repeatable.
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
just out of curiosity,what percentage do you guys think that pool pros place the cue bang on the line of aim and not slightly across it or with a touch of unitentional side,in a match of race to 9 or 11?i rarely see top pool pros steer the cue to make the shot and they make most shots they play,so it has to be around 80-90% of the time i guess??
I'm a little confused here. Isn't wherever you place the cue ball your line of aim?
 

z0nt0n3r

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
IMO based on my own experience I think it is 100%. I think once you find center either by luck or persistence, once you know what it looks and feels like then it is very repeatable.
i'm talking about aiming with the cue both the cue ball and object ball correctly,not just the cue ball.
 
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