Adam Japan HOF Cue questions

DCS_SF

DCS_SF

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have two Adam Japan HOF cues I purchased a couple years ago directly from competition sports (a friend got one on ebay, and I loved it and contacted him directly). They were supposedly the last ones of new old stock left in the warehouse. They came with a certificate of authenticity from competition sports, a velvet bag, and an Adam Japan sticker on the butt. He stopped selling them shortly after on ebay from what I can tell (and said there weren't many left). I believe he has since moved to Florida.

These are not the Balabushka signature versions.

On inspection they seem to be well made, and they play great. One I play with often, and it has lost it's Japan sticker. I believe these to be the real deal, but there are no other identifying marks or serial numbers on the cues themselves. Is there anyway to verify these are actually Adam Japan cues? If it is only the sticker have I hurt the value by losing the sticker that faded and eventually was peeled off the one cue. I know that playing with will hurt the value but I like it.

I see similar but not exact versions on ebay (although not from the seller who I know to be the guy from competition sports) for almost twice what I got them for...I am not so sure these are the same cues. The new ones I see online have subtle differences on the rings, and some design changes. The new ones also claim to be from Adam Japan though.

Does anyone know more to the story behind these cues? Will these eventually be worth anything more than I paid which is considerably less than suggested retail? I have had offers on the Rambow, but I am not sure I want to let it go. I guess it really doesn't matter since I really like them, but I am just curious.

I have CS-432 and CS-425 listed here.
http://www.competitionsports.com/nimages/ASSORTED-CUES-272.jpg

I have found this site which is asking considerably more money than I paid but appears to be the same versions, well at least for the Rambow.
https://www.shootersbilliards.com/Hall-of-Fame-Pool-Cues/

NiWcTvlh.jpg


yOgpaAdh.jpg


voJmw0Xh.jpg
 
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I probably wouldn't be looking for such cues to appreciate or be collectible. Almost anything, when old enough, is collectible to somebody...but we're talking an awful long time.

I do believe they are holding decent value though, but still below retail and just strong for a used Asian cue. Just check the completed Ebay sales to get an idea.

The whole deal with COAs and stuff like that on new cues is just marketing.

If they are Adam they are a decent cue, enjoy them.

I am not sure how to tell specifically but am confident that an expert could tell they are Adam without the sticker. The newer ones made in China likely are not as nicely made. I think their butt caps are more yellowish than the cues you show.


I have a few Adam cues in my collection, but nothing this new. To me these are still pretty new.


I would generally put used values at 50% of discounted retail (not MSRP). Personally, I like these cues, and would not mind having a nice example. If I bought one I would be looking to pay half of what they are going for as I perceive them to be over-valued and a lot of "bottom feeder" collectors are inflating their value by paying too much. But that is just what I think.



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The fellow from Competition was, indeed, selling the real, NOS Adam HOF series cues.

His pics on ebay were not great, but the cues sure were.

I had a few of these and the quality was terrific.

IIRC, he was selling them for between $550 - $600. A very good value at that and while I wouldn't expect to see them appreciating much, if at all, I honestly don't think they would depreciate much either.

They are beautiful and well made.

As Chopdoc said, nice cues; enjoy. :)

best,
brian kc
 
Chopdoc said:
I probably wouldn't be looking for such cues to appreciate or be collectible. Almost anything, when old enough, is collectible to somebody...but we're talking an awful long time.

I do believe they are holding decent value though, but still below retail and just strong for a used Asian cue. Just check the completed Ebay sales to get an idea.

The whole deal with COAs and stuff like that on new cues is just marketing.

If they are Adam they are a decent cue, enjoy them.

I am not sure how to tell specifically but am confident that an expert could tell they are Adam without the sticker. The newer ones made in China likely are not as nicely made. I think their butt caps are more yellowish than the cues you show.


I have a few Adam cues in my collection, but nothing this new. To me these are still pretty new.


I would generally put used values at 50% of discounted retail (not MSRP). Personally, I like these cues, and would not mind having a nice example. If I bought one I would be looking to pay half of what they are going for as I perceive them to be over-valued and a lot of "bottom feeder" collectors are inflating their value by paying too much. But that is just what I think.
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Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, and yeah I didn't expect these were extremely old, or that I was sitting on a goldmine. :) As I said I do like them, and I was mostly curious. They do play fantastic though.

It is odd that the "newer" (China made?) versions are going for twice what I paid though. Sounds like I got a pretty good deal, as I lost a few ebay auctions before just calling the guy and getting them directly. I am happy to know that these do seem to be authentic Adam Japan though.

Kickin' Chicken said:
The fellow from Competition was, indeed, selling the real, NOS Adam HOF series cues.

His pics on ebay were not great, but the cues sure were.

I had a few of these and the quality was terrific.

IIRC, he was selling them for between $550 - $600. A very good value at that and while I wouldn't expect to see them appreciating much, if at all, I honestly don't think they would depreciate much either.

They are beautiful and well made.

As Chopdoc said, nice cues; enjoy. :)

best,
brian kc
Click to expand...

Thanks, it does sound like I got a really good deal on these then. Also it gives me a pretty good idea of what a fair price would be should I ever part with one.

Now if I can only locate an extra shaft for a reasonable price. :lol:
 
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DCS_SF said:
It is odd that the "newer" (China made?) versions are going for twice what I paid though. Sounds like I got a pretty good deal, as I lost a few ebay auctions before just calling the guy and getting them directly. I am happy to know that these do seem to be authentic Adam Japan though.
Click to expand...


I am guessing the China made cues are mostly selling to "non-cue" people. People that are not really well versed in cues. Pool players, but not cue people.

As I said the COA is a marketing strategy. It works. A lot of people are drawn to that.

It is also not unlikely that the Adam history behind these cues established a reputation that continues. Some may not know the cues are no longer made by Adam. They just don't research it like you or I might.


Just guessing.

Of course..I have no idea how those China made cues are selling at those prices either.





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So here is what made me question the cues. I want to make it clear I am not calling out this seller since he has a positive rating and I am sure what is selling is what he claims...

Below are the "same" two cues I have posted above.

Neither seem to have an apparent Japan sticker. However, the ad says they are from the Japan factory.

This one has a thin black ring at the top of the wrap, and a thin metal ring on the joint. Where mine had the sticker, no black ring at top of wrap, and a thicker metal ring on the joint.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pc-HOF-bus...701698?hash=item1eb6220502:g:eUsAAOSwv0tVDsoP

Then there is the Rambow which he says is actually a 20 year old NOS. It has a diamond pattern rather than a circle on the butt, appears to ebony rather than rosewood and doesn't have the red and blue splices (EDIT, they actually are there, just bad pic). Also it has a thick ring, where as mine has none.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Pc-Pool-C...631959?hash=item21197e5ad7:g:ijQAAOSwXeJYERUt

Mine seem to match the (unfortunately small) picture on Competition's website, and I know I got the cues directly from them. I am just wondering if these are newer, or perhaps older versions from Japan, or if they are now being manufactured elsewhere. Not to mention the price...

Maybe I should just let it go. haha.
 
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I can't claim to know for certain but I believe the China cues do tend have thinner metal rings at the joint than the Adam cues did. I do not know if this consistent across all the models.

Over the years there may be slight variations in construction even from a single maker.

There was some detailed discussion here some time ago on the matter of the differences in these cues. You might find it if you search the forums.

I also found, a couple years ago, another discussion online somewhere about this. It involved somebody that had intimate knowledge of the background of the business dealings and the distribution agreements. They seemed to know a lot about the construction of the cues. I do not remember where that discussion was.



Stickers don't always mean too much. Even stampingss. Occasionally we even see counterfeit Adam cues on Ebay. There have been counterfeit Joss cues as well.

Some have said it would not be worth it to counterfeit Adam cues. But it must be, because it has been done.



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DCS_SF said:
I have two Adam Japan HOF cues I purchased a couple years ago directly from competition sports (a friend got one on ebay, and I loved it and contacted him directly). They were supposedly the last ones of new old stock left in the warehouse. They came with a certificate of authenticity from competition sports, a velvet bag, and an Adam Japan sticker on the butt. He stopped selling them shortly after on ebay from what I can tell (and said there weren't many left). I believe he has since moved to Florida.

These are not the Balabushka signature versions.

On inspection they seem to be well made, and they play great. One I play with often, and it has lost it's Japan sticker. I believe these to be the real deal, but there are no other identifying marks or serial numbers on the cues themselves. Is there anyway to verify these are actually Adam Japan cues? If it is only the sticker have I hurt the value by losing the sticker that faded and eventually was peeled off the one cue. I know that playing with will hurt the value but I like it.

I see similar but not exact versions on ebay (although not from the seller who I know to be the guy from competition sports) for almost twice what I got them for...I am not so sure these are the same cues. The new ones I see online have subtle differences on the rings, and some design changes. The new ones also claim to be from Adam Japan though.

Does anyone know more to the story behind these cues? Will these eventually be worth anything more than I paid which is considerably less than suggested retail? I have had offers on the Rambow, but I am not sure I want to let it go. I guess it really doesn't matter since I really like them, but I am just curious.

I have CS-432 and CS-425 listed here.
http://www.competitionsports.com/nimages/ASSORTED-CUES-272.jpg

I have found this site which is asking considerably more money than I paid but appears to be the same versions, well at least for the Rambow.
https://www.shootersbilliards.com/Hall-of-Fame-Pool-Cues/

NiWcTvlh.jpg


yOgpaAdh.jpg


voJmw0Xh.jpg
Click to expand...

This cue looks similar to your cues, but a little different.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mosconi-2pc...356894?hash=item1ebb7a0c9e:g:-vkAAOSwBLlVDrFT

The one I see on ebay looks Chinese made to me, but I do not know. If these cues (including yours, that you purchased) were in fact made in Japan (by the same people that made the Balabushka series), then why did they not use Birds Eye Maple in the forearm of the cues, and why does the rubber bumper a different type then the rubber bumper that is on the average Adam Japan cue? The rubber bumper on these ebay cues looks like the same rubber bumper that is used on many other Chinese made cues. The rubber bumper on the Adam Japan cues is much different. I do not know about your cues, or the ones on ebay, but I do not care for the straight grain maple forearms (that should have been BEM, in my opinion), or the cheap looking rubber bumper that is on them. Everything else looks nice to me though. My gut feeling tells me that they are not real Adam Japan cues though (maybe Adam, but not Adam Japan). I am far from an expert though, and I am sure my opinions will get bashed.
 
DCS_SF said:
Mine seem to match the (unfortunately small) picture on Competition's website, and I know I got the cues directly from them. I am just wondering if these are newer, or perhaps older versions from Japan, or if they are now being manufactured elsewhere. Not to mention the price...

Maybe I should just let it go. haha.
Click to expand...

You have the Adam cues. I can tell by the joint collars, the joint rings, and the buttsleeves, among other items. No need to worry.

All the bet,
WW
 
HawaiianEye said:
The Adam Japan cues have thick silver rings in the joint collars. The ones made in China have thin rings.

I think there are a LOT of Chinese-made cues on ebay being advertised as made by Adam Japan.

I posted about this a few months back.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=430663&highlight=Adam+Japan
Click to expand...

Okay, I see the difference in the rings (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mosconi-2pc...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557). The Chinese really are pretty good at copying cues it seems. They just did not get the rings right. I think it is pretty low for a seller to advertise a cue as vintage (old new stock), and made in Japan, if the seller knows the real truth about where the cues came from.
 
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