Adjust...adjust my ass

[JoeyA]

I will probably get some flaming for this but it has bothered me for many years. Two guy or gals want to play one another for say $200 a set 9-ball race to11. I play a little better than him most of the time. I give him the call-8 and beat him two sets in a row, but just buy one or two games each time.

Now he wants the call 7&8 for the same money. I see players giving in to this all the time. What am I suppose to do keep adding to his spot until he can beat me. WTF are we trying to get in each other's pockets or is the idea to try and break even at the end? Then why play for money? This kind of gunslinger mentality adjusting and adjusting until you need a gear that you get twice a year to chase and catch the nuts is another reason why pool players are and do die broke.

Some old timers say that's the code. That doesn't make one bit of good sense. When I played for Money I wasn't in the business of trying to give the guy the best of it, I wanted the best of it. Thanks for listening. Johnnyt

I don't think there's anything wrong with them asking you to adjust the spot, just as I don't think there's anything wrong with you not adjusting the spot. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

If I think I can win and feel like playing I will and if I don't think I can win I'll tell them so. The winner does not have an obligation to change the spot under any circumstances. The loser isn't under contract not to ask the winner for a better spot.

Personally, I like to give or take an azz-whipping and come back another day. If the match was close like yours was, I not only would not adjust but wouldn't play indefinitely either.
JoeyA

 

[Bob Jewett]

... What am I suppose to do keep adding to his spot until he can beat me. WTF are we trying to get in each other's pockets or is the idea to try and break even at the end? Then why play for money? ...

Well, from his perspective, you're stealing and he's in a bad game (or maybe he thinks he has the hook set and it's time to reel you in).

If you have a regular sparring partner, it's possible to set up a spot that automatically adjusts to keep the game fair. Few people want a fair game, so it's probably pointless for me to describe it, but here goes. This is like Mino's suggestion but for a longer term arrangement.

You agree on a list of progressively larger spots. I like games on the wire a lot better than winning balls because it's easier to make the list. 11-11, 11-10, 12-10, 12-9, 13-9, 13-8, etc. Negotiate what a fair game is to start with, which is maybe 12-10 (race to 12, he starts with 2 on the wire). Then you decide on how heavy you want the action to be. For example, you could say that for every $500 one of you gets stuck, the spot moves one notch. Or $50, if you're both cheap. Or $10,000 if you like more excitement. Then stick to the agreement. It's easy to deny a spot change: "You aren't stuck enough for a change yet."

If you decide to change the "heaviness" of the action, you have to recalculate the spot from the money that has changed hands from the start of the agreement. This last requirement prevents "milking" the system by repeated changes.

 

[fanthom]

I will probably get some flaming for this but it has bothered me for many years. Two guy or gals want to play one another for say $200 a set 9-ball race to11. I play a little better than him most of the time. I give him the call-8 and beat him two sets in a row, but just buy one or two games each time.

Now he wants the call 7&8 for the same money. I see players giving in to this all the time. What am I suppose to do keep adding to his spot until he can beat me. WTF are we trying to get in each other's pockets or is the idea to try and break even at the end? Then why play for money? This kind of gunslinger mentality adjusting and adjusting until you need a gear that you get twice a year to chase and catch the nuts is another reason why pool players are and do die broke.

Some old timers say that's the code. That doesn't make one bit of good sense. When I played for Money I wasn't in the business of trying to give the guy the best of it, I wanted the best of it. Thanks for listening. Johnnyt

You're in good company. I once gave a good player the 8-ball on a race to 8. I won by 1-game in each of the three sets we played and then by 2-games on the last set. He quit and then starts woofin about he should getting the 7 and the breaks. Can you believe this guy? I said no. I said I'l give him 1 game on the wire for the same race and the same 8-ball spot but he wouldn't budge. I also offered the 7-ball but we needed to double up. He said no. I said let me know when you want to play to win your money back and left .

 

[Pushout]

Yeah, somebody made the remark in another thread that if they lost two sets they would have to adjust. If you win by four or five games, maybe, but not by a game or two, no way.

 

[Snapshot9]

I will probably get some flaming for this but it has bothered me for many years. Two guy or gals want to play one another for say $200 a set 9-ball race to11. I play a little better than him most of the time. I give him the call-8 and beat him two sets in a row, but just buy one or two games each time.

Now he wants the call 7&8 for the same money. I see players giving in to this all the time. What am I suppose to do keep adding to his spot until he can beat me. WTF are we trying to get in each other's pockets or is the idea to try and break even at the end? Then why play for money? This kind of gunslinger mentality adjusting and adjusting until you need a gear that you get twice a year to chase and catch the nuts is another reason why pool players are and do die broke.

Some old timers say that's the code. That doesn't make one bit of good sense. When I played for Money I wasn't in the business of trying to give the guy the best of it, I wanted the best of it. Thanks for listening. Johnnyt

Good post Johnny, and furthermore you should not have to explain yourself to the other opponent if you do not adjust. In the old days (70's), there was NO adjusting unless someone was down $500 or more dollars, and the better player would tell the other what he would give them, not the other way around.

If I offer a game (which isn't very often), I tell them what I will give them
the FIRST TIME, and I don't come off it because they want me to. They can take it or leave it, I don't care. I am not trying to 'get to the middle' either, I am there to win.

Anyone that ties themselves into a spot where you have to have a 'once a year streak' to outrun the nuts is a fool, and not a very good gambler since you are making yourself a longshot to win.

It is up to the lessor player to 'bring his game up' when playing a known better player, not the other way around.

 

[Southpaw]

Just dont fall into the trap of adjusting and raising the bet....I usually say, we can adjust next time we play.

Southpaw

 

[branpureza]

I like adjusting a lot of times... gives me a chance to win more money against a player that would just quit otherwise.

 

[satman]

I was in Vegas

I don't think there's anything wrong with them asking you to adjust the spot, just as I don't think there's anything wrong with you not adjusting the spot. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

If I think I can win and feel like playing I will and if I don't think I can win I'll tell them so. The winner does not have an obligation to change the spot under any circumstances. The loser isn't under contract not to ask the winner for a better spot.

Personally, I like to give or take an azz-whipping and come back another day. If the match was close like yours was, I not only would not adjust but wouldn't play indefinitely either.
JoeyA

I guess about 10 years ago for the VNEA tourney. Just got there and was hitting a few balls by myself. My stakehorse had sent about $3000 with me for the weekend til he got there on Monday. Guy comes up and asks to play some 9-ball for $20 a game and I said sure. I don't chase coins around the table so we paid after every game. I wasn't getting shape couldn't seem to get out. He got me stuck for $200 really quick and I asked him for the 8, {something I have rarely done in my life} and he just unscrewed his cue. Wouldn't even play me even after I asked.
As for adjusting spots, once you start, it's up to the winner whether he wants to adjust or not. I had standing agreements with some of the guys I gambled with on a regular basis. I've only been given weight a few times, when either the match was setup by an outsider stirring up action, or just flat offered something.

 

[tonmo]

I don't gamble very often but when I do there is no weight given and none taken. I wouldn't care if I was going up against Efren Reyes himself, I don't want a spot. I couldn't beat Efren and I'm not trying to say I would even have a chance. All I'm saying is that I hate handicapping games. If you don't play well enough to beat someone then don't gamble with them. It's as simple as that. And if you want to play me, don't even think about asking for a spot because I won't even entertain the idea.
MULLY

That makes sense to me (and I would surely lose to everyone posting in this thread). On the rare occassion that I agree to gamble (and I actually haven't as yet, aside from our neighborhood pool night), I'd expect to lose. If I win, hey, good for me! If I lose, I paid my money to a superior player, and s/he earned it. I probably learned something in the process and hopefully I had some level of fun.

 

[Fatboy]

I will probably get some flaming for this but it has bothered me for many years. Two guy or gals want to play one another for say $200 a set 9-ball race to11. I play a little better than him most of the time. I give him the call-8 and beat him two sets in a row, but just buy one or two games each time.

Now he wants the call 7&8 for the same money. I see players giving in to this all the time. What am I suppose to do keep adding to his spot until he can beat me. WTF are we trying to get in each other's pockets or is the idea to try and break even at the end? Then why play for money? This kind of gunslinger mentality adjusting and adjusting until you need a gear that you get twice a year to chase and catch the nuts is another reason why pool players are and do die broke.

Some old timers say that's the code. That doesn't make one bit of good sense. When I played for Money I wasn't in the business of trying to give the guy the best of it, I wanted the best of it. Thanks for listening. Johnnyt

Mr. T, I let my customers get out debt the same way they got in to debt.


I'm stuck 3 sets with Jay this week-I didnt ask for a different game, I had my chances in 2 sets, after 6 or 7 sets if I havent had or seen any chances to win then something has to change. I played Archer a while back(just to warm him up) he gave me a monster spot in 2 races to 7, I had no chance to win the first set, I NEVER saw the spot in the 2nd set, I wouldnt play that game for $$$ because it was so out of whack. But if I see that I have a chance to win I dont ask for weight, same thing the other way I wont give weight if I see that my opponent had a chance to win(dogging a key game etc). these are my general rules


When I was on short $$$ I may have tightened up my criteria, it also depends on who i'm playing and what I can win. So things change.

 

[Pii]

I will probably get some flaming for this but it has bothered me for many years. Two guy or gals want to play one another for say $200 a set 9-ball race to11. I play a little better than him most of the time. I give him the call-8 and beat him two sets in a row, but just buy one or two games each time.

Now he wants the call 7&8 for the same money. I see players giving in to this all the time. What am I suppose to do keep adding to his spot until he can beat me. WTF are we trying to get in each other's pockets or is the idea to try and break even at the end? Then why play for money? This kind of gunslinger mentality adjusting and adjusting until you need a gear that you get twice a year to chase and catch the nuts is another reason why pool players are and do die broke.

Some old timers say that's the code. That doesn't make one bit of good sense. When I played for Money I wasn't in the business of trying to give the guy the best of it, I wanted the best of it. Thanks for listening. Johnnyt

If it's that close i'd tell him to pump up a try a little harder you aren't going to adjust to the point where you lose.

I play people that want to adjust after a single set! WTF they haven't even warmed up after one set! If they don't like it they don't have to play.

People don't seem to have any heart at all these days.

 

[Pii]

I don't gamble very often but when I do there is no weight given and none taken. I wouldn't care if I was going up against Efren Reyes himself, I don't want a spot. I couldn't beat Efren and I'm not trying to say I would even have a chance. All I'm saying is that I hate handicapping games. If you don't play well enough to beat someone then don't gamble with them. It's as simple as that. And if you want to play me, don't even think about asking for a spot because I won't even entertain the idea.
MULLY

I hate getting a spot also I feel like I've admitted the other player is better which just kills my mental game. I also feel like I'm a loser from the get go.

 

[1on1pooltournys]

Depends

I will probably get some flaming for this but it has bothered me for many years. Two guy or gals want to play one another for say $200 a set 9-ball race to11. I play a little better than him most of the time. I give him the call-8 and beat him two sets in a row, but just buy one or two games each time.

Now he wants the call 7&8 for the same money. I see players giving in to this all the time. What am I suppose to do keep adding to his spot until he can beat me. WTF are we trying to get in each other's pockets or is the idea to try and break even at the end? Then why play for money? This kind of gunslinger mentality adjusting and adjusting until you need a gear that you get twice a year to chase and catch the nuts is another reason why pool players are and do die broke.

Some old timers say that's the code. That doesn't make one bit of good sense. When I played for Money I wasn't in the business of trying to give the guy the best of it, I wanted the best of it. Thanks for listening. Johnnyt

You have to take it all into consideration. If the guy is a score, I'd much rather get to a point that is pure gambling because you always will make a bigger score. It is ok to get the best of it if you are playing good players and smart gamblers who are only going to lose the normal amount of barrels, say 2 to 3 sets or 10 games for whatever you are betting, or perhaps one "ahead" set. If it is a cirucumstance of playing a guy that is going to really go off you will always make a better score if you give them a dead gambling game. The theory is, if you only win 30 to 50 percent of the time you are going to still be winner (ahead in money) and will get to keep gambling with the person. Of course if you are a guy that gets your nose open, then you may want to stay away from this type of gambling approach, or if you are short on money.

In this circumstance it certainly seems like there are plenty of other adjustments from the call 8 to the call 7 and 8!!!

 

[PoolBum]

You won $400. What are you complaining about? He doesn't think he can win with the current game. Therefore he is right to quit or ask for a different spot. You don't want to give up the new spot. Therefore you would be right to quit or propose yet a different spot. Worst case scenario is you can't agree on a spot and you walk away with your $400 that was formerly his.

Sounds pretty good to me!

-Andrew

Yep, this was my reaction too.

 

[Neil]

................

 

[SCCues]

Golden Rule - They must get out they way they got in.

I like this rule too. If the game was good enough to start with and they lost then don't ask to keep changing the game until they can win. It would be easier to just ask for their money back!

James

 

[GreekTycoon]

This really is a great thread, but it says something about "our" sport. Case in point: I play at a well-known room in the Windy City. Recently, I heard two serious players trying to arrange a 9-ball bet for $20 per set. It went like this:

"How about a little race? I need to win my money back."
"What do want to do."
"Gimme the 7 this time. Last time you beat me with only the 8."
"No, I can't give you the 7."
"OK, how about you give me 8 but we play on table 10."
"I can't play on table 10, pockets are too loose."
"Why don't we play on 14."
"I don't like the light on 14."
"Then why don't we play on table 9, and I get the 8 and the breaks."
"Oh, no, not with the way you break."
"C'mon, I don't break that good, and you know it."

This goes on and on until I'm about ready to throw a bucket of cold water on the two of them. I hear this stuff constantly. Everyone wants a lock-up game these days. I say spend the time practicing instead of whining, and if you?re getting a spot, any slight advantage should go the way of the person giving the spot. Just my $0.04...

 

[ironman]

I will probably get some flaming for this but it has bothered me for many years. Two guy or gals want to play one another for say $200 a set 9-ball race to11. I play a little better than him most of the time. I give him the call-8 and beat him two sets in a row, but just buy one or two games each time.

Now he wants the call 7&8 for the same money. I see players giving in to this all the time. What am I suppose to do keep adding to his spot until he can beat me. WTF are we trying to get in each other's pockets or is the idea to try and break even at the end? Then why play for money? This kind of gunslinger mentality adjusting and adjusting until you need a gear that you get twice a year to chase and catch the nuts is another reason why pool players are and do die broke.

Some old timers say that's the code. That doesn't make one bit of good sense. When I played for Money I wasn't in the business of trying to give the guy the best of it, I wanted the best of it. Thanks for listening. Johnnyt

Everybody has a right to ask and everyone has a right to say no.

Some are pretty content with $400 where some want to make a score.

Either way, no xcore is coming from $200 sets anyway.

 

[kryptonite9]

I feel your pain, but the move from the call-8 to the call-7&8 is not just an adjustment it is a major move. Move to the call-7 or even the call-6.

Giving up two balls to make early is a much much larger handicap in my mind than one early money ball.

I also agree with the board on the adjustment thing. No one in my home room will gamble with me, but will play $50 or $100 a set with each other and just continually jockey the spot back and forth until they are even. Every player in the room thinks they are big gamblers, but at the end of the day it is all a push.

Almost NOONE steps out of line anymore even for cheap. I am not that old and when I came up I never asked for weight, I always played players of my level even to win money and played better players even to get better. Now I don't think many have a real desire to get better.

 

[uwate]

You get someone stuck and they are dogging it, alot of times you CAN give them more weight and take them smooth off. The biggest scores I have seen are when someone is willing to accomodate someone who is in go off mode. Often what is a spot that should be the nuts for the losing player, ends up being the reason they went completely bust.

Now if they ask for the same spot the next day...well its a different story.

About a year ago I played someone 9-6 1p for 7 hrs and came up one game @ 40/gm. My opponent unscrewed after 7 hrs and told me the game was out of line and he needed 10-6 or he wasnt playing me anymore. I think I hate that kind of Nit move ALOT more than when guys ask for more weight when they are going off.